YHWH worship and Left Hand Paths

[Kapalika]

Because I refuse to believe that I have been practicing some form of Hinduism for the past 30 years

Not all Left Hand Paths are Hindu. Some are Buddhist, some are Jain, and some are Satanist and Luciferian and others.

I was referring to anything I'd deem LHP in general. And even atheistic kinds of LHP can allow for worship of deities - those deities just are not considered to exist as a literal entity outside of oneself or it wouldn't be atheistic anymore.

That seems to pretty much be my position as well.

The entire concept of worshiping a deity is counter to the LHP. Jehova also requires many rules and policies to be followed - to worship Jehovah is to carry out his will and not your own. It is also from Christianity that many Western taboos are based; sexual regulations, dietary restrictions, homosexuality, gender repression, and having faith. The LHP path isn't about serving a god and growing according to a deity's plan, but serving yourself and growing yourself according to your visions.

I think worship and imitation of deities is essential to the Left Hand Path. How else can one attain those higher states unless they seek to become those deities, either metaphorical or literal themselves?

Well, I for one would like to hear how you can combine a RHP tradition with a LHP tradition?

Easy. By forgoing the false dichotomy and doing what is taboo to the LHP and transcending both labels although by a more LHP method.

The idea of being totally submissive to your god, or basically a muslim by the full definition of the word, is not LHP. You don't live your life according to your standards and desires, but live it within the boundaries and confines of what Jehovah desires.

I don't agree to this at all. Nothing about worshiping indicates being submissive in the way that Christians and Muslims are.

What exactly do you think you mean by "worship", and why would it go against LHP?

The concept of worshipping a deity does not go against all left hand paths. Especially when you understand that worship means "the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration towards a deity", or "to honor with religious rites".




You are obviously confusing the concept of "worship" with concepts of subservience and servitude.



How would you know what YHWH "requires"? I am not talking about worshipping through Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. Those great religions are not the only paths of YHWH worship.

Worshiping YHWH does not mean you cannot fulfill your own Will. Worshipping YHWH does not mean you have to become a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, or that you must do what their religious leaders tell you to do. Worshipping YHWH means feeling or expressing respect and adoration towards YHWH, or honoring YHWH with religious rites... all of which can be done in your own way, on your own path, and in accordance with your own Will.

That way, that path... it can certainly be LHP.

This almost makes me wanna incorporate Yahweh into my Satanism just to tick people off who are averted to wanting to seem a certain way... I mean, as I said recently in another topic Satan basically serves Yahweh in the mythos... and it fits what I do with my own Satanic group... but we just use another deity for that...

YES!!! Gloves are OFF now!!!!

Sweet!. In Nomine Satanas! Come at me bro. *pulls out sword*

wakka wakka wakka *charges into battle*

Om jay Bhairava Deva

 

[Aštra’el]

That's pretty much what being a muslim is. It is literally defined as being submissive to god. And some Muslims (adherents of Islam) due use terms such as servitude to describe their relation towards god. To follow Jehovah means following his ways; extreme and unobtainable expectations of abstinence, pages and pages of rules and restrictions, and it's very much "my way or the highway."

It has already been explained to you that worship need not equate to subservience or servitude. Some spiritual-religious systems adopt that approach, others do not.

Through the few books that allegedly came from his prophets and possibly son. Seems a good starting place to me.

There is the will of the God(s), and then there is the will of Man. Worshippers who do not contemplate the difference are often the ones most easily manipulated by others through the use of scripture and religion.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I think the reason there is so much confusion here, and with most(who am I kidding, all) of these discussions of the 'LHP itself, as a thing, simply because it's very easy for those that have not been immersed in it for many years(and even some that have) to make a category error when attempting to classify it in their heads.

Those that are stuck on dualities will tend to create for themselves, when examining various religions, a contrast between 'LHP and 'RHP whereas the former is another version of the latter, only with different trappings. They divide 'RHP religion from 'LHP religion and measure both with the same stick.

On the other side of the fence are those that understand that 'LHP isn't a sort of religion but a method of approaching things, including but not limited to religion. Any given religion can be classified as 'RHP or 'LHP depending on how it is interpreted and practiced.

For instance, in this example of yhvh worship, to be 'LHP one would need only classify 'worship' as reverence and respect, emphasize works over faith, approach nastika in practice and seek to eliminate mind/body duality by seeking to either merge with or become like the big Jewish nasty himself.

 

[crossfire]

I think the reason there is so much confusion here, and with most(who am I kidding, all) of these discussions of the 'LHP itself, as a thing, simply because it's very easy for those that have not been immersed in it for many years(and even some that have) to make a category error when attempting to classify it in their heads.

Those that are stuck on dualities will tend to create for themselves, when examining various religions, a contrast between 'LHP and 'RHP whereas the former is another version of the latter, only with different trappings. They divide 'RHP religion from 'LHP religion and measure both with the same stick.

On the other side of the fence are those that understand that 'LHP isn't a sort of religion but a method of approaching things, including but not limited to religion. Any given religion can be classified as 'RHP or 'LHP depending on how it is interpreted and practiced.

For instance, in this example of yhvh worship, to be 'LHP one would need only classify 'worship' as reverence and respect, emphasize works over faith, approach nastika in practice and seek to eliminate mind/body duality by seeking to either merge with or become like the big Jewish nasty himself.

How would you classify a religion whose goal is to separate from the all?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

How would you classify a religion whose goal is to separate from the all?

What, like setianism? New age I guess. Not everything can be qualified according to the l/r dichotomy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It has already been explained to you that worship need not equate to subservience or servitude. Some spiritual-religious systems adopt that approach, others do not.

Except Jehovah does require total obedience and submission. You don't find your own calling in life, you let god work through you and do what god wants you to do. Jehovah is not a god to follow if you have any goals and ambitions that are counter to his expectations. Because if don't follow his ways, you get to go to Hell.

There is the will of the God(s), and then there is the will of Man. Worshippers who do not contemplate the difference are often the ones most easily manipulated by others through the use of scripture and religion.

When we look at the Tanakh, the New Testament, or Quran, we have what Jehovah demands and expects of his followers. There is a reason so many of his followers take their faith to the extreme, either through physical violence or sheer stupidity. Many of them actually believe that learning things such as science are damaging as they weaken one's faith. According to their own Creation stories, Jehovah's plan was for Adam and Eve to live out as dumb, obedient, ignorant, and blind automatons. Jehovah has revealed and spelled out his will, and damned those who won't follow it, even going as far as to say to bring those who don't want him to rule over him before him and kill them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Except Jehovah does require total obedience and submission. You don't find your own calling in life, you let god work through you and do what god wants you to do. Jehovah is not a god to follow if you have any goals and ambitions that are counter to his expectations. Because if don't follow his ways, you get to go to Hell.

When we look at the Tanakh, the New Testament, or Quran, we have what Jehovah demands and expects of his followers. There is a reason so many of his followers take their faith to the extreme, either through physical violence or sheer stupidity. Many of them actually believe that learning things such as science are damaging as they weaken one's faith. According to their own Creation stories, Jehovah's plan was for Adam and Eve to live out as dumb, obedient, ignorant, and blind automatons. Jehovah has revealed and spelled out his will, and damned those who won't follow it, even going as far as to say to bring those who don't want him to rule over him before him and kill them.

As I said here: http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/yhwh-worship-and-left-hand-paths.187864/page-3#post-4777022

...I doubt @Goddess_Ashtara is approaching YHWH in the Abrahamic fashion. From what she's said, I assume she practices a form of ancient Near Eastern polytheism, so what the modern Jews, Christians and Muslims believe don't necessarily have anything to do with her path. But she will have to clarify there.

Basically - don't make assumptions or presumptions.

 

[crossfire]

What, like setianism? New age I guess. Not everything can be qualified according to the l/r dichotomy.

Actually, I was thinking about Buddhism, and its teaching "The All" is to be abandoned.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I don't know about that. There seems to be a lot of different strains of Buddhism, and I do not consider myself qualified to speak on them.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't know about that. There seems to be a lot of different strains of Buddhism, and I do not consider myself qualified to speak on them.

I'm not an expert on Buddhism, myself, but forms of Mahayana and Vajrayana are often considered LHP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-...Left-Hand_Path_relation_to_Tantra_in_Buddhism

 

[Kapalika]

/.

I'm not an expert on Buddhism, myself, but forms of Mahayana and Vajrayana are often considered LHP:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-...Left-Hand_Path_relation_to_Tantra_in_Buddhism

Aye. Once upon a time I was being taught LHP Vajrayana by a Bodhisattva. Can be very LHP indeed particularly in Tibet and whenever Dakinis are involved. Actually the ancient LHP Shaivites of Kashmir had a *lot* of cross influence with the Tibetan LHP Buddhists. If anyone is interested I might have an old reading list somewhere. I can recall a couple of books on the subject off hand if anyone wants to ask me in PM (I think I was dealing with Dakinis at the time so the books would be mostly about that).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

/.


Aye. Once upon a time I was being taught LHP Vajrayana by a Bodhisattva. Can be very LHP indeed particularly in Tibet and whenever Dakinis are involved. Actually the ancient LHP Shaivites of Kashmir had a *lot* of cross influence with the Tibetan LHP Buddhists. If anyone is interested I might have an old reading list somewhere. I can recall a couple of books on the subject off hand if anyone wants to ask me in PM (I think I was dealing with Dakinis at the time so the books would be mostly about that).

I'd be interested in that.

 

[Bhairava]

I find Christianity to be extremely torturously dull! I would much rather be murdered slowly than read the bible. lmao

Christianity could be considered LHP if it wasn't popular. Look who made it popular and is kinda like the official form of Christians Catholics. They literally believe they are eating the body of Jesus and drinking his blood; that is LHP as ****! Its popular and accepted but what makes something LHP in my perspective is it not being socially acceptable. Like how I follow the ancient LHP in India were what makes it LHP is the eating of meat and ingesting ganja and sex practices. Does the West consider eating meat LHP? **** no! How bout sex practices? I would say no since the West is getting less prude by the day. Hell even look at the ganja practice and half the states in the US you can get it as medicine. So really the LHP I follow is becoming acceptable in my country just not my state yet.

 

[Bhairava]

Because I refuse to believe that I have been practicing some form of Hinduism for the past 30 years

Well Hinduism invented the LHP cause its older. If you look at types of Satanism they are anti Christian religions that stole from Tantric Saivism and Hell EVEN the Tantric Buddhists stole from them. Basically if you think you know some deep **** its probably from Hinduism. Modern LHP is like New Age (misinterpreted) Tantric Hinduism.

 

[EtuMalku]

Well Hinduism invented the LHP cause its older. If you look at types of Satanism they are anti Christian religions that stole from Tantric Saivism and Hell EVEN the Tantric Buddhists stole from them. Basically if you think you know some deep **** its probably from Hinduism. Modern LHP is like New Age (misinterpreted) Tantric Hinduism.

The East invented Eastern LHP which is not Western LHP. The majority of Satanism is not anti-Christian or more clearly not Reverse Christianity.
You simply do not understand Western LHP nor Satanism enough to make such claims

 

[Kapalika]

The East invented Eastern LHP which is not Western LHP. The majority of Satanism is not anti-Christian or more clearly not Reverse Christianity.
You simply do not understand Western LHP nor Satanism enough to make such claims

I could of sworn I heard some prominent Satanist once say that Satanism was the opposite of Christianity and they were pretty anti-Christian in their writings. I think it was either LaVey or Gilmore....

In any case it's not Bible believing devil worshipers yes.. though a few of those do exist... I'd actually reckon that Satanism is closer to Thelema than Tantra. BUT I will say that sigils and invocations mirror yantras and mantras pretty well in function to a degree. It's actually how I bridge a lot of my ritual work and meditation between Satanism and Tantra.