You can not prove that God does not exist!!

[Rioku]

For atheist and theists, I have come across this argument repeatedly through my debates and I would like to clarify the most basic of arguing points.

To atheists: There is no way to prove god does not exist, just no way whatsoever. I would suggest saying that they can not prove <insert something unprovable like Zeus> does not exist. If they fail to see your point, don't talk to them anymore there is no point in trying.

To theists: There is no way for a atheist to prove god does not exist so stop asking. The question just shows how ignorant you are to the God debate.

 

[Mister Emu]

If they fail to see your point, don't talk to them anymore there is no point in trying.

The arguement is flawed, there are many things I know to be that I cannot prove.

 

[K.Venugopal]

You can not prove that God does not exist!!

We ordinary folks might not be able to prove whether God exists or not. But can't God prove that He exists? God, it appears, has proven to a select few of His existence. The testimony of those chosen few make up the scriptures. Those inspired by the scriptures, in turn, search for the God testified in the scriptures. Many claim to have found such a God. Some have left behind teachings of techniques followed to discover God. Either way, waiting for God to come and prove Himself or undertaking a journey to meet Him, it is always an individual happening. God doesn’t just stand there, like the Himalayas, as proof of Himself. We have to prepare ourselves for the denouement of the greatest spectacle we can imagine - a meeting with God!

 

[YmirGF]

For atheist and theists, I have come across this argument repeatedly through my debates and I would like to clarify the most basic of arguing points.

To atheists: There is no way to prove god does not exist, just no way whatsoever. I would suggest saying that they can not prove <insert something unprovable like Zeus> does not exist. If they fail to see your point, don't talk to them anymore there is no point in trying.

To theists: There is no way for a atheist to prove god does not exist so stop asking. The question just shows how ignorant you are to the God debate.

Well I can see there is no pulling the wool over your eyes, lol. Tell me, is this supposed to be news? You might try to fathom the simple fact that most of us are quite aware of what you are saying.

Just to play with your brain, many Muslims will openly claim that the Qur'an is proof that God exists because Allah allegedly wrote the book as it is. Granted it is passed on to man third hand (God to Gabriel to Mohammed) but they will chat your ears off trying to convice you nonetheless. I am dead serious btw. Ask them sometime, lol. Ok... so we only have Muhammed's word for it that he got the scoop from Archangel Gabriel word for word and Archangel Gabriel got it from "god" word for word but again -- they wll be rather insistent that it is all God's word.

So are you insulting Islam by calling all Muslims who believe in the Prophet and the Qur'an liars?

 

[frg001]

I agree that most people are fully aware of this. However, and this probably is true for both camps..."If you can persuade just one single person to your way of thinking then it's all been worth it"

I guess Christians call it saving someone... So do I.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Well, guess we just better close down the site now then.
Last one out, turn off the lights.

 

[Rioku]

The arguement is flawed, there are many things I know to be that I cannot prove.

Because you can not prove it does not mean science can not prove it. This is another one of the basic arguments religion uses. Basically, if something is not falsifiable then it is not able to be proven true. However if you know many things then you have to at some point have sensed them. In which case they can be proven true, or false.

 

[Rioku]

We ordinary folks might not be able to prove whether God exists or not. But can't God prove that He exists?

Well this is confusing for a couple reasons. But yes god can prove he does exist. However if he does then then we fall into a paradox where god told us that he will not prove he exists so once he does he is no longer god.

 

[Rioku]

So are you insulting Islam by calling all Muslims who believe in the Prophet and the Qur'an liars?

Umm, I am not quite sure why you chose Islam, because Christians and Jews fall into the same category. Many Christians claim the bible to be evidence for the existence of Jesus and God. Just claiming something is evidence does not make it evidence.
Imagine a archaeologist who finds an old pot, then he tells the world this pot is old so god does not exist. That is an equivalent argument to the one religions are making about their holey books. Luckily, for science there is carbon dating and other methods to tell the age, which is verifiable evidence, as opposed to claimed evidence.

But please try to stay on topic, I am attempting to spread the basics of the god debate to all those who are unfamiliar with the basics.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well I can see there is no pulling the wool over your eyes

Exquisite.

 

[Rioku]

I agree that most people are fully aware of this.

Here is a page all about proving the disproofs of god incorrect.
Atheists have Proven God Does Not Exist. Right?

Here is another one:
Can you prove God doesn't exist? - By Jim Holt - Slate Magazine


My point is that I and my peers have come across a number of people who's first point out of their mouths is prove god does not exist. I want to make it clear for those who are unfamiliar with the arguing point that there is no way to prove god does not exist and that point does not make them correct.

 

[Random]

But yes god can prove he does exist. However if he does then then we fall into a paradox where god told us that he will not prove he exists so once he does he is no longer god.

Absolutley fantastic! Spot on! :yes:

 

[Willamena]

Here is a page all about proving the disproofs of god incorrect.
Atheists have Proven God Does Not Exist. Right?

Here is another one:
Can you prove God doesn't exist? - By Jim Holt - Slate Magazine


My point is that I and my peers have come across a number of people who's first point out of their mouths is prove god does not exist. I want to make it clear for those who are unfamiliar with the arguing point that there is no way to prove god does not exist and that point does not make them correct.

The first website is not written by atheists, but someone presenting their version of what atheists' arguments are. The second website is about the lack of arguments, so presents no arguments in itself (the second article actually presents good arguments as to why atheists should have good arguments).

I think most rational people understand, as you do, that one cannot prove the non-existence of a thing (i.e. a "thing" necessarily exists or it's not a thing --it's nothing).

 

[YmirGF]

The first website is not written by atheists, but someone presenting their version of what atheists' arguments are. The second website is about the lack of arguments, so presents no arguments in itself (the second article actually presents good arguments as to why atheists should have good arguments).

I think most rational people understand, as you do, that one cannot prove the non-existence of a thing (i.e. a "thing" necessarily exists or it's not a thing --it's nothing).

I cannot be bothered to read the links, but have learned to trust your analysis, Willy. What puzzles me is that Rioku feels a need to explain all this to us. How insulting is that? I wonder when he will acknowledge that most of us here are already several steps ahead of him.

But yes god can prove he does exist. However if he does then then we fall into a paradox where god told us that he will not prove he exists so once he does he is no longer god.

Are you saying that ALL religions claim that "god" cannot/will not reveal itself? I would tend to advise you go back to the drawing board unless this is solely based on the traditional Abrahamic god concepts. The danger in doing so is assuming that the writers of those so-called "scriptures" got it right. Who is to say they did? Their followers, lol!

Aside from this perhaps you could outline to my stunted intellect just why god would not longer be god if he revealed himself to his followers. In theory "god" can do as "he" pleases and it is not for you or I to hem "god" in to what said "god" can or cannot do.

 

[YmirGF]

Umm, I am not quite sure why you chose Islam, because Christians and Jews fall into the same category.

Indeed they do, and I did not say that such was not the case, it is just than in Islam the boundaries are much more sharply defined.

Many Christians claim the bible to be evidence for the existence of Jesus and God. Just claiming something is evidence does not make it evidence.

Well, duh. That is realistically stating the obvious, however, as I say 1.3 billion Muslims would probably argue the point long into the night that you are wrong. THAT is the point. Perhaps you should understand that realistically speaking I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I am playing the Devil's Advocate here.

Imagine a archaeologist who finds an old pot, then he tells the world this pot is old so god does not exist. That is an equivalent argument to the one religions are making about their holey books. Luckily, for science there is carbon dating and other methods to tell the age, which is verifiable evidence, as opposed to claimed evidence.

Your example is absolute rubbish. Surely you can do better.

But please try to stay on topic, I am attempting to spread the basics of the god debate to all those who are unfamiliar with the basics.

Well, hopefully there is something to learn from your viewpoint, however superficial and somewhat obvious that knowledge may prove to be.

 

[ChristineES]

We may not be able to prove that God exists or doesn't exist, but it can be interesting and educational to debate it, as long as the discussion remains civil.

 

[logician]

The onus is on the god believers to prove their god concept is valid, not vice versa.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well this is confusing for a couple reasons. But yes god can prove he does exist. However if he does then then we fall into a paradox where god told us that he will not prove he exists so once he does he is no longer god.

How is that a paradox? The whole thing resolves itself if you allow for the possibility that God was misquoted.

 

[McBell]

How is that a paradox? The whole thing resolves itself if you allow for the possibility that God was misquoted.

{sarcasm}
WHAT?!?!?!
God was misquoted in the Bible!?!?!?
{/sarcasm}

 

[Engyo]

Personally, I don't worry about proofs one way or the other regarding god. It's not an issue in my life/world.