You Can't Legislate Morality

[blackout]

That's not relevant to the point about legislating morality. There is a morality in society -- absolute or not. Society legislates it. That's what legislatures are for -- legislating and enforcing the morality of a society. This is so obvious to me that I find the discussion actually somewhat puzzling.

For me they are nothing more than "rules" "standards" and "measures".
I for one live by my own set of "rules" "standards" and "measures"
while managing at the same time to NOT cross those of the society I live in.

Morality has nothing to do with it.

If I wanna drive fast.... I'll take it off road.......

 

[Dunemeister]

For me they are nothing more than "rules" "standards" and "measures".
I for one live by my own set of "rules" "standards" and "measures"
while managing at the same time to NOT cross those of the society I live in.

Morality has nothing to do with it.

If I wanna drive fast.... I'll take it off road.......

Okay, so you're saying that legislatures don't legislate morality because there's no real morality to legislate. At least, there's no absolute one. Again, that's not the point. The word "morality" doesn't imply that there are absolute moral laws. It only means that there are societal norms. Legislatures legislate those. Having done that, it may or may not change what you hold as your own set of moral laws (call them "rules, standards and measures if you please). Legislatures can't force you to change your morality, but they can -- and do -- legislate morality for the societies they govern.

Again, this is all true whether you believe in objective morality or not.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Dunemeister -

Your statement that "they can -- and do -- legislate morality for the societies they govern" is exactly the point I am making.

The legislatures do NOT legislate morality - they legislate the penalty for not adhering to the laws that are enacted.

 

[blackout]

They legislate penalties for breaking "rules" they make.

 

[Magic Man]

Legislation has nothing to do with morality. It only has to do with furthering the society. Anything that harms someone is legislated against. Unfortunately, legislation sometimes gets influenced by some people's morality, but that shouldn't be the case. Basically anything that hurts a citizen unnecessarily is not good for the society, and so is banned. Drugs are seen as hurting society in general because, for one, of the things they make people do and how users negatively affect those around them. Maybe it's not right, and we might be better off legalizing them, but I think that's the idea.

Anyway, I don't think any of this has to do with the attempt to be righteous or moral, just to provide a safe environment in which to function.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

You can't legislate morality and you can't legislate commonsense. Both require a self decision. Laws may have their roots in someone else's morality, but the morality is subjective to the one who make those laws.

 

[logician]

Societies usually take it on themselves to makes laws that hopefully keep some level of order, otherwise things quickly descend into anarchy. As far as a person's inner self, or moral compass, that cannot be legislated.

 

[Dunemeister]

Dunemeister -

Your statement that "they can -- and do -- legislate morality for the societies they govern" is exactly the point I am making.

The legislatures do NOT legislate morality - they legislate the penalty for not adhering to the laws that are enacted.

They also create the laws, and that's the "legislating morality" bit. Laws across countries vary because societies have different norms. For instance, it's illegal to smoke in most public places in Canada. That's not the case in South Korea. Canada has "legislated morality" by declaring smoking in public to be illegal. South Korea (on this issue) has not.

 

[Dunemeister]

Societies usually take it on themselves to makes laws that hopefully keep some level of order, otherwise things quickly descend into anarchy. As far as a person's inner self, or moral compass, that cannot be legislated.

Okay logician, that makes about the second time I've agreed with you. Let's not let this become a habit.

 

[Dunemeister]

You can't legislate morality and you can't legislate commonsense. Both require a self decision. Laws may have their roots in someone else's morality, but the morality is subjective to the one who make those laws.

Not relevant. They are still legislating morality. They are enacting into law (and thereby training its citizens in) aspects of morality. Whether that changes an individual's moral sense is another matter, but successful in that or not, they are still legislating morality.

 

[Father Heathen]

Would one consider the rules to a board game morals?

 

[Nessa]

Would one consider the rules to a board game morals?

Interesting question and thought-starting comparison.

 

[Halcyon]

You can't legistate morality, you can only make certain moral opinions into "the norm" make it law, then punish those who do not conform.

 

[gnomon]

I believe the drug war is a wonderful example of the government successfully legislating morality.

 

[Dunemeister]

Interesting question and thought-starting comparison.

Not really. Life isn't idle entertainment.

 

[Dunemeister]

You can't legistate morality, you can only make certain moral opinions into "the norm" make it law, then punish those who do not conform.

Or they take pre-existing norms and then create laws to enforce them. That's legislating morality.

 

[Nessa]

Not really. Life isn't idle entertainment.

What is the purpose of our conversation if it isn't a form of entertainment? I have enjoyed my life so far ;P

But several posters have raised similar questions.

For me they are nothing more than "rules" "standards" and "measures".
I for one live by my own set of "rules" "standards" and "measures"
while managing at the same time to NOT cross those of the society I live in.

Morality has nothing to do with it.

If I wanna drive fast.... I'll take it off road.......

And we have a set of rules regulating our idle entertainment at RF that seemingly have little to do with morality.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I believe the drug war is a wonderful example of the government successfully legislating morality.

LOL - I don't think I could possibly disagree more, gnomon. I think the war on drugs is an excellent example of a failed attempt to legislate morality. Much like prohibition in the 20's, it has achieved almost the exact opposite of what the intent was.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Or they take pre-existing norms and then create laws to enforce them. That's legislating morality.

Again - I respectfully disagree, Dunemeister. I am in the same camp as Halcyon, Logician, Father Heathen, mball, and UltraViolet.

I don't think this is simply a matter of semantics, either.

When someone says "legislate morality", I think of the war on drugs as a great example of just how badly that can go wrong. The intention is good, but the results are incredibly misaligned with what was desired.

 

[Father Heathen]

Not really. Life isn't idle entertainment.

Yes really. Rules serve the same function in both games and societies, which blows the whole "legislating morality" notion out of the water. They're there to establish limits, boundaries and order, not to preserve the moral fiber of the individual.