You don't support the troops

[Lindsey-Loo]

The REAL anti Americans are Shrub and Company. They have abrogated our civil rights, put our sons and daughters in harms way for NO GOOD REASON and have broken our constitution.

Ummmm...ok...

 

[Feathers in Hair]

It can be hard to remember, since these are fairly new sections in the "Political World" forum, but please keep in mind that they are discussion forums. (This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but it's just good to stem off debate before it happens!)

 

[Valjean]

Could someone explain to me exactly what "support for the troops" means, especially troop support while opposing their actions? I'm obviously missing something here.

I still can't get my head around this support for the actor while condemning his actions thing. I can understand "hate the sin, love the sinner" easily. Love doesn't entail support for the sin.

To me support implies assistance or, at very least, a willingness to assist the actor in the very actions one claims to condemn. This sounds schizophrenic to me. It's not like the troops are incapable of refusing to follow immoral or illegal orders. There's nothing physically hindering them from acting in imitation of Christ, so to speak.

Some posts back someone stated s/he supported the troops because they did as they were told. Isn't this exactly the same thing all the world condemned the Nazis for At Nuremberg -- "just following orders?"
If legal but immoral acts were reprensible then, and soldiers condemned for doing their duty by following them, what withholds us from applying the same yardstick today?

When I hear "I''m against the war but I support the troops" I'm hearing "I'm against the extermination of the Jews, but I support (am willing to assist) the Waffen SS and Gestapo."

Never again?!?!?.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

To me, it means that I hope they come home safely and don't experience or cause too many horrors.

I think that perhaps what you're bringing up is the issue of whether being a soldier is morally sound.

 

[XAAX]

This logic is especially comical coming from the "Support life: Kill an abortion doctor!" invalids.

What gets me is the ones who parade it around in public. There is some religious group that every other week they are standing at main intersections in town holding up huge signs with images of aborted fetus on them. The pictures are extremely graphic and distasteful. I swear, people are lucky they are protected by the law in this country, I have been tempted more than a couple of times to turn them into hood ornaments. People like that should be shot...

As far as the OP, I do support the troops, just not the position our country is taking...

 

[Scuba Pete]

Some posts back someone stated s/he supported the troops because they did as they were told. Isn't this exactly the same thing all the world condemned the Nazis for At Nuremberg -- "just following orders?"

Nope,

the Nazi rank and file were not responsible for WW II. Ergo, they were never prosecuted. The soldier is but a pawn UNLESS they commit a heinous act (death camps come to mind). Those who were tried were the policy makers.

A US soldier is legally and morally obligated to obey his superiors and uphold the Constitution of the United States. Without such obligations, the military could determine when and where it went to war (a police state). As it is, they have no say in who, when or even where they fight. Here is a paper on the subject: Clicky, clicky

 

[Bishka]

As far as the OP, I do support the troops, just not the position our country is taking...

We agree for once.

 

[des]

To me you summed up the most morally supportable position for "supporting the troops".

However, to me the whole argument of "supporting the troops" is basically adminstration "code" for the following:
"you have to support the Bush administration's position on the war, because if you don't support it you are not 'supporting our brave soldiers in uniform'". This is a whole attempt to silence critics who might be "emboldening the enemy" and so forth. "Just stop debate and let us do whatever we want". Those who put bumper stickers (as Bill Mayer said, "it is the least they can do-- literally) to "support the troops", they can favor the war without seeming to be too out of touch with the disaster the war is. "I support the troops". The whole argument to me is fairly shameful, as the purpose of it is to attempt to limit debate and silence critics.



--des

To me, it means that I hope they come home safely and don't experience or cause too many horrors.

I think that perhaps what you're bringing up is the issue of whether being a soldier is morally sound.

 

[Doodlebug02]

Yeah it never really made sense to me either why some people think that just because I am a liberal that I am somehow against the troops or something. That is just wrong. I am not against the troops, I am against the war!

 

[Mister_T]

I support our troops. That's why I want to bring them back home.

 

[RevOxley_501]

I thought this rational was dead with the Vietnam War, but apparently not so:

In both real life and on the Internet I've been told how I don't support the troops. To me this is one of the most offensive things you can say. I have friends serving right now in Iraq, friends who will soon serve, and friends who are thinking about serving. To equate my disapproval of what they're doing with disapproval of their safety is disgusting.

I don't agree with what prison executioners do, but I don't wish them harm.

i dont actively support them...i think its aweful that some of them joined the military just because of this war...i think its aweful is they stay in the military. if they wanted to they could strike and just stop shooting people, they could end the war...

i dont wish them harm...but i support the iraqi people too

 

[Storm]

I don't see how one can support the troops without at least tacitly supporting the war. War is the function of a warrior. It's what they do. Supporting or approving of the troops has to imply approval of their function.

If I were to say I support the rapist but not the rape people would tell me I wasn't making sense.

Was it correct and proper for the Germans to support the troops during WWII? Wouldn't most people today express approval of German dissidents? Don't people today generally laud the White Rose Society and the French partisans? We know how they were dealt with at the time, once caught.

Well, this time we are the "bad guys." We are the ones waging an arguably illegal war and wreaking havoc on a society that posed no threat to us.
Even if such a statement is too brazen for you to accept but you still claim to condemn the war but support the troops, I can't understand how one can support the actor while condemning his actions.

I condemn both the action and the people carrying out the action. The two are intertwined. I suspect a century hence most schoolboys will be scratching their heads wondering how a society could support an action they claimed to disagre with.

Here's how:

My family has a very proud tradition of serving in just wars/ military actions. My cousin enlisted in the Army shortly after 9/11 to fight Al'Qaeda and the Taliban and help in the rebuilding of Afghanistan. But he didn't get to do that. By the time he was through basic, Dubya had lied America into a war of aggression against Iraq - who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11.

My cousin and those like him answered a just call to battle, an honorable act. Instead of being treated with respect, their honor was prostituted to the neocon agenda, their blood used to buy oil for cowards.

To add insult to injury, he was trapped by the stop-loss policy, and forced into duties for which he and his squadron were not properly trained or equipped (body armor), like dismantling bombs as part of "caravan guard duty" just outside of Fallujah. (He recently made it home in one piece from his second tour, thank God.)

How are such people "the bad guys" here? They're victims in this, too, not the villains. I support the troops by opposing the so-called war. They didn't choose this, and they don't really have the option of refusing once they're in, seeing as desertion in a time of war carries the death penalty.

 

[Storm]

i dont actively support them...i think its aweful that some of them joined the military just because of this war...i think its aweful is they stay in the military. if they wanted to they could strike and just stop shooting people, they could end the war...

i dont wish them harm...but i support the iraqi people too

No, they really can't. That's mutiny, which is also a crime punishable by death, especially if it takes place in a combat situation.

This isn't some labor union we're talking about, it's the military. They don't screw around with this stuff. Going "on strike" while there are people shooting at your unit can get you shot without trial by your commanding officer.

And you know what? There are very good reasons for that. When you're a soldier, more lives than your own depend on you doing what you're told instantly. In combat, there's no time for questions or debate, and no room for conscientious objection. You do what you're told, when you're told, or you and your brothers-in-arms die.

That's why it's so important that the civilian populace and government refuse to send the military into unjust wars. The soldiers aren't the ones to blame. They're doing what they have to do to survive. The ones who send them where they don't belong - that would be us - are the ones who bear the responsibility.

 

[ker crypter]

I thought this rational was dead with the Vietnam War, but apparently not so:

In both real life and on the Internet I've been told how I don't support the troops. To me this is one of the most offensive things you can say. I have friends serving right now in Iraq, friends who will soon serve, and friends who are thinking about serving. To equate my disapproval of what they're doing with disapproval of their safety is disgusting.

I don't agree with what prison executioners do, but I don't wish them harm.

lf we dont agree with the politics we still must support our troops...

 

[ker crypter]

i dont actively support them...i think its aweful that some of them joined the military just because of this war...i think its aweful is they stay in the military. if they wanted to they could strike and just stop shooting people, they could end the war...

i dont wish them harm...but i support the iraqi people too

a soldier goes to war because he's told to and lm sure 99% of them dont want to,support the men and women who fight for your freedom because they will....will you?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I support our troops by volunteering at my husband's Army Reserve Center. I organize telephone trees for families with the ebb and flow of soldiers who are deploying, returning from active duty, transferring to other units, ending their time of service, or entering the service.

I support our troops by holding the hands of wives, mothers, husbands, and children of deployed soldiers for solace as well as giving them resources to turn to for finances, child care, part-time work, and recreation time.

I also support our troops by embracing spouses and parents of fallen soldiers who are killed in the line of duty. I help them with giving them resources for the pragmatic issues like death certificates, funeral/memorial services, and grief counseling.

I support our troops by offering them resources for keeping their marriages together during deployment as well as after returning home. I show them the retreats and counseling services that the military provides for free since many aren't aware of them. Deployment strains marriages seriously, but the return home strains them EVEN MORE, and many couples aren't aware of that.

Finally, I support our troops by encouraging camaraderie while I'm at the base. I'll call wives while their husbands are on duty just to say hi and chat for a little bit. I'll talk with the base commander to get the gist on what's going on with the soldiers and suggestions for how I can help. And I help organize entire unit picnics and BBQs for all the families to get together for troop and family morale.

AND.......

I do not support this war.

Any questions?




Peace,
Mystic