You MUST Be among the 144,000 To Obtain the Frst Resurrection

[Flavius]

Please read the scriptures well before you vote.


As far as I can tell, Unless you are one of the 144,000 witnesses spoken of in the book of Revelation, You do not obtain the resurrection.

That doesn't mean you wont be saved, It just mean that you will not be resurrected in the days of The King, You will wait for the glorious time to be over just as many people have waited before you and You will still be in fear of the second Judgment while the 144,000 have no fears.

HERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES---- WHAT ARE FIRSTFRUITS?

{1 corinthians 15:20} But Now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by Man came death, By Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam we all die, even so in Christ, all shall be made alive.

But Each one in his own order: Christ the firsfruits, Afterwards those who are in Christ at his coming.

{Revelation 14} Then I looked, and behold, A lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000, Having his father's name written on their foreheads.
{Revelation 14:4} These are the ones[144} who follow the lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men{All men}, BEING FIRSTFRUITS TO GOD AND THE LAMB.

So you see, If your name is not found amongst the 12 tribes of the 144,000, You couldn't possibly obtain the first resurrection in my opinion.

 

[fallingblood]

I think you are misinterpreting the book of Revelations. Most scholars are leaning towards the idea that the Book of Revelations was talking about events that had happened during the writing. I see no reason to expect that it was talking about the end times.

 

[AxisMundi]

Please read the scriptures well before you vote.


As far as I can tell, Unless you are one of the 144,000 witnesses spoken of in the book of Revelation, You do not obtain the resurrection.

That doesn't mean you wont be saved, It just mean that you will not be resurrected in the days of The King, You will wait for the glorious time to be over just as many people have waited before you and You will still be in fear of the second Judgment while the 144,000 have no fears.

HERE ARE THE SCRIPTURES---- WHAT ARE FIRSTFRUITS?

{1 corinthians 15:20} But Now Christ has risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
For since by Man came death, By Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam we all die, even so in Christ, all shall be made alive.

But Each one in his own order: Christ the firsfruits, Afterwards those who are in Christ at his coming.

{Revelation 14} Then I looked, and behold, A lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000, Having his father's name written on their foreheads.
{Revelation 14:4} These are the ones[144} who follow the lamb wherever he goes. These were redeemed from among men{All men}, BEING FIRSTFRUITS TO GOD AND THE LAMB.

So you see, If your name is not found amongst the 12 tribes of the 144,000, You couldn't possibly obtain the first resurrection in my opinion.

Revalations was a contremporary conmmentary on the fall of Rome.

Theocrats have picked up on it and claimed it's some future calamity as a pure theopolitical control device.

 

[fallingblood]

Most scholars?

Revelation is written in an unknown Tongue just as the parables of Jesus are.

Very few people know this language, and so I say it's unknown.

I have been reading the bible all my life, and I come from a family of Ministers.

I have probably heard more sermons myself that have 100 people who go to church every week.

Just recently I learned the language.

I learned that No preacher or scholar has ever understood a single parable of Jesus, Not one.

I know of not one person who can take any parable of Jesus and tell you what it really means.

The same goes for the book of Revelation, Not one scholar has understood it, Nor can they understand until they learn the language.

It may appear as if Revelation has allready taken place to alot of people but that's only appearence.

History repeats itself and that's what confuses people.

If you show me one person who could interpret one single parable of Jesus, That person just might be able to read Revelation and understand it, Sadly, I know of not one person who understand any of the parables.

Are you talking about Greek? Because I'm pretty sure that Revelations was written in Greek. Hardly an unknown language. And I can guarantee you that many scholars can an do understand Greek.

There is no evidence that the Book of Revelations is dealing with anything except events that had happened currently. I read Greek. I understand the time period in which the Book was written. I understand the motivation of the book being written. I also understand the genre in which it is written in.

All of the signs point to recently happening events. There is nothing in the Book that really can't be explained, and even better explained in the time period that it was written.

Also, I can assure you that many scholars and ministers can explain what the parables of Jesus meant. There are a few people here who can also explain the parables very well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

No, I'm not speaking of Greek.

I'm speaking of the language of ecstasy.

Yeah, I used to have fun going to raves too.

 

[fallingblood]

No, I'm not speaking of Greek.

I'm speaking of the language of ecstasy.

I'm aware of the scholars believing they can read Revelation and the parables, But I tell you that they can't, They don't know the language.

They don't even know the simple parts.

The parables of Jesus can be read by anyone, It has an underlying lesson that all see.

Let a christian read it and then hand it to a Hindu, and then a Muslim, They will all see the underlying lesson but it's a Parable, what is really being said is usually opposite of what most people read into it.

It's just like any of the stories they read of Jesus.

For instance, The feeding of the 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and two fishes.

People just read past it never understanding what it says, and what has happened.

Then really any argument against what you may say becomes pointless. If this is some secret language, or unknown language, which really doesn't seem to be able to be learned through natural ways, then how can one even argue?

I personally do not believe there is an unknown language that one must learn in order to understand the parable or Revelations. There is no evidence for this unknown language. Which makes the logical position the one that I stated.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

No, the ressurection is within you

 

[fallingblood]

Let's get naked and speak in the language of Ecstasy.

First Samuel 10:6 The spirit of the Lord will grip you, and you will speak in ecstasy along with them................

They are not talking about an actual language here. It is not referring to some unknown language at all. It is talking about a state of being.

 

[fallingblood]

There is no evidence that ecstasy was a language. If taken in context, speaking in ecstasy means just that. It is speaking in a state of ecstasy, or in rapturous delight. There is no evidence to suggest anything else.

Going back to the Jews 2,000 years ago (which Judaism was extremely diverse), specifically to the community that the book of Revelations was written, there is no reason to assume that he was writing about anything accept recently occurred events. There are many apocalypses that were written around that time period. Some of them were highly regarded and were considered for entry in the Bible.

All you are doing is placing your own interpretation onto the book based on the assumption that there is some type of unknown language that can not be proven. Instead though, there is more than enough information to conclusively show that Revelation is based on events that had happened relatively close to the writing.

Jesus does state that, or at least it is accredited to him, that the Kingdom of God was very close at hand, that it would happen within the life time of his disciples.

 

[fallingblood]

Again, there is no evidence that it was a language. You can claim that it is, but then all argument is lost as you're claiming something as fact that can't be proved.

 

[fallingblood]

Sounds so scientific.

The Kingdom of God is within you, open your eyes and see it.

It's right there, grasp hold of it.

You say with such ease, '' Revelation is based on events that had happened relatively close to the writing''

Have you yourself allready gained the resurrection?

Have you yourself allready found the lost tribes of Israel?

Let me ask you something, When Revelation lists the 12 tribes of the 144,000, It lists the tribe of Joseph.

Can you show me anywhere in history, The tribe of Joseph?

Just anywhere?

I will send you a thousand bucks if you can list one single scripture speaking of the tribe of Joseph because it doesn't exist now has it existed but yet They will suddenly be there.

There are so many scriptures in Revelation that have never happened that I don't even know where to begin.

Just where did this great Earthquake happen in history where the 7000 died?

You speak in general saying,'' Awe, This has allready happened''

But this wouldn't hold up if you put a whole case of duct tape around it.

Here's the problem. The Book of Revelations is not suppose to be taken literally. Taking it literally, then claiming that there is a secret language that it is written in simply makes no sense, and voids any logical discussion that could be held. Meaning, there is no longer any reason for me to participate in this thread as it will just be a waste of time.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

How many judgement days are there supposed to be? I only ever heard about one.

 

[AxisMundi]

No, I'm not speaking of Greek.

I'm speaking of the language of ecstasy.

I'm aware of the scholars believing they can read Revelation and the parables, But I tell you that they can't, They don't know the language.

They don't even know the simple parts.

The parables of Jesus can be read by anyone, It has an underlying lesson that all see.

Let a christian read it and then hand it to a Hindu, and then a Muslim, They will all see the underlying lesson but it's a Parable, what is really being said is usually opposite of what most people read into it.

It's just like any of the stories they read of Jesus.

For instance, The feeding of the 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and two fishes.

People just read past it never understanding what it says, and what has happened.

Haven't seen an appeal to ignorance fallacy that obvious in quite a while.

 

[Flavius]

Haven't seen an appeal to ignorance fallacy that obvious in quite a while.

Have you considered that the majority who say they know Jesus do not know Jesus?

'' But Lord, we did Miracles in your name, and taught about you in the streets''

He answered, '' Depart from me, I do not know you''

I gave the secrets of feeding the 5000 with the 5 loaves of bread but you either didn't read it or understand it'.

With the remaining 7 loaves from the 12 loaves proves the lesson I gave on the 5000 but I didn't give you those secrets.

If I did, It would prove what I said of the 5000 being fed.

But you come in here with a general insult not referencing any scripture because you figure I'm wrong about the Majoritie's blindness not knowing what is being said''

It would be much better if you had just an ounce of wisdom if you had any wisdom or insight on a single parable or story, But all you do is speak as if you are a wise man with an insult.

Let me fill you in on what an insult is, It's when you prove somebody wrong about what they say instead of rattling off some quote you heard some smart arse say at sometime.

My claim is that the majority does not understand a single story or parable about Jesus and it's my opinion, they don't.

Would you like to pick a story or parable and discuss how wise you are?

How about the good Samaritan, or the the prodigal son?

I have heard countless of preachers teach on the prodigal son and not one of them have been correct or have the slightest idea what they are talking about in my opinion.

Do you have some insight besides using your mouth to cry?

If you want to be serious , then be serious, If you can teach me something , then teach, otherwise you do me no favors.

If I can learn from you, I will thank you, if not, why do even try?

Do you know something of the feeding of the 5000 or any story, any parable?

I suppose you are just one of those hit, run and hide persons who havn't even read the bible.

Or are you a person who believes in none of the miracles but claim to be a christian.

Where have you went?

Let's have a discussion if you have something to say.

 

[Wotan]

No matter the language whoever wrote revelation was doing some serious SS*!

 

[Flavius]

No matter the language whoever wrote revelation was doing some serious SS*!

Revelation is written in the spirit, Only a Jewish Rabbi would understand it.

It's not unreachable, You have to seek it out.

It is written by a man who was exciled to an island and he couldn't say things outright, he spoke to people who knew the traditions and people who were raised in a Jewish setting.

It's just like the 666,It's in Ezekiel 8 but if you don't know Jewish custom, You willl never find it.

But the name is right there in Ezekiel with the 666.

 

[Flavius]

No matter the language whoever wrote revelation was doing some serious SS*!

When you read,'' A third of this, a third of that'' speaking about the sea and the Earth, It's not speaking about the sea or the Earth.

It's the design of the Temple.

The whole of Revelation is speaking as a builder should speak according to the building of the Temple.

The Temple is in 3 sections and people are seperated into 3 sections, when a Third has died, a third of the people have died.,

 

[Flavius]

Here's the problem. The Book of Revelations is not suppose to be taken literally. Taking it literally, then claiming that there is a secret language that it is written in simply makes no sense, and voids any logical discussion that could be held. Meaning, there is no longer any reason for me to participate in this thread as it will just be a waste of time.

Claiming there is a secret language?

Revelation tells you it's a secret Language through the entirety of the Book.

Let him who has an ear hear what the spirit is saying.

 

[Wotan]

There must have been some powerful stuff growing on that island.
You what island? Might be market in that whatever it is.

 

[Flavius]

There must have been some powerful stuff growing on that island.
You what island? Might be market in that whatever it is.

I wished I had something good growing in my back yard.