Young Hillsong Church congregant who mocked vaccine dies of COVID

[ecco]

How would that be "good"?

Refusing medical treatment to large numbers of people with severe COVID-19 sounds like a recipe to spread the pandemic even more.

People too sick to walk around aren't going to spread anything.

People in graves don't spread anything.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How would that be "good"?

Refusing medical treatment to large numbers of people with severe COVID-19 sounds like a recipe to spread the pandemic even more.

It's counterproductive. That would mean, now that they say most in hospitals are not vaccinated, denying them treatment leaves half the population to die. The vaccinated would live a good life with herd immunity in addition to the exempt.

It makes it seem herd immunity only saves one group of people and those who aren't part of the group, well...

It makes herd immunity less about saving and caring about the ill. We mind as well not have herd immunity if we decide who we should save by the decision they make and not by their suffering and possible death do to COVID.

 

[gnostic]

According to a Daily Beast article, Man Who Tweeted About Having '99 Problems but a Vax Ain't One' Dies of COVID. In particular:

He made memes about trusting the Bible over Dr. Anthony Fauci. But in late July, Harmon wrote that he was “on max oxygen” and “struggling to function.” His final tweet July 21 asked supporters to pray for him as he was about to be intubated: “Don’t know when i’ll wake up, please pray.”
Why are so many Evangelicals putting their faith in direct conflict with science?

What can anyone say about some people’s irresponsible stupidity???

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's counterproductive. That would mean, now that they say most in hospitals are not vaccinated, denying them treatment leaves half the population to die. The vaccinated would live a good life with herd immunity in addition to the exempt.

It would mean that those who refuse vaccination out of pig-headed ignorance would put all of those who can't get vaccinated - like children and those with legitimate medical reasons not to be vaccinated - at risk.

Also, every time an unvaccinated person gets infected, there's another potential for mutation. At some point, those mutations could get to the point that our vaccines aren't effective any more and then we're all screwed.

I have a dim view of anyone who would wilfully make the pandemic worse, whether that means people who would deny people (dumbasses, but still people) care and leave them in the community to infect others, or anti-vaxxers who - for reasons that I can't fathom - are trying to collaborate with a deadly disease.

It makes it seem herd immunity only saves one group of people and those who aren't part of the group, well...

It makes herd immunity less about saving and caring about the ill. We mind as well not have herd immunity if we decide who we should save by the decision they make and not by their suffering and possible death do to COVID.

Luckily for you, the medical establishment has the empathy for others that's missing from the worldview of your anti-vaxxer friends.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It would mean that those who refuse vaccination out of pig-headed ignorance would put all of those who can't get vaccinated - like children and those with legitimate medical reasons not to be vaccinated - at risk.

Also, every time an unvaccinated person gets infected, there's another potential for mutation. At some point, those mutations could get to the point that our vaccines aren't effective any more and then we're all screwed.

I have a dim view of anyone who would wilfully make the pandemic worse, whether that means people who would deny people (dumbasses, but still people) care and leave them in the community to infect others, or anti-vaxxers who - for reasons that I can't fathom - are trying to collaborate with a deadly disease.


Luckily for you, the medical establishment has the empathy for others that's missing from the worldview of your anti-vaxxer friends.

Do you get what I'm saying, though?

When you deny medical treatment to some who are dying from COVID because of their decision it makes it very heartless and a contradiction.

It makes herd immunity feel like Nazi and less about people dying. Do we really hate unvaccinated so much to accuse them of sustaining the pandemic?

You'd literally have to let half COVID patients die out to achieve herd immunity if what you say is true.

 

[tas8831]

If the current anti-vax nonsense continues, very soon the non-vaccinated will be pretty much shunned from daily life. Debate about that is already ongoing.

I know for a fact that several countries are exploring this.
Without a "corona pass" proving that you are vaccinated (or exempt for valid reasons), you will not be allowed to enter restaurants, bars, festivals, shops, work places,....

Hospitals will not be part of that though. It would be very unethical to refuse health care to people who need it.

But the idea of "make life extremely difficult for the unvaccinated" is most definitely the next step in the vaccination campaign to get those stubborn people to come to their senses.

The step after that, if it still proves insufficient, is mandatory vaccination, like we have for plenty of other nasty diseases also.

Society shall not allow that a bunch of ignoramuses and conspiracy nutcases are going to prevent nations to return to pre-covid normalcy.

But they will (and already are) whining about their "freedom."
They whine about a mask. They whine about people/businesses not wanting non-masked people around.
They whine about vaccines, they whine that people refusing vaccines can't do whatever they want.
They are basically just a bunch of selfish whiners.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It would mean that those who refuse vaccination out of pig-headed ignorance would put all of those who can't get vaccinated - like children and those with legitimate medical reasons not to be vaccinated - at risk.

No. It just means many provaxxers are scared insofar they rather accuse a group for not siding rather than accuse those to who may warrant the accusation.

Edit
But the exempt can spread the virus too. Are you sure you really care about not spreading the virus and more people's decisions to not lower their risk of catching it-despite the hundreds of reasons it may be?

have a dim view of anyone who would wilfully make the pandemic worse, whether that means people who would deny people (dumbasses, but still people) care and leave them in the community to infect others, or anti-vaxxers who - for reasons that I can't fathom - are trying to collaborate with a deadly disease.

They don't. You just think they do because you see them as a ticking time bomb no matter who they are, their situation, their reasoning.

You have to expand your mind a bit from political provaxxer accusations.

Luckily for you, the medical establishment has the empathy for others that's missing from the worldview of your anti-vaxxer

Whose antivax?

You're talking to the wrong person.

I choose not to vaccinate.
I am not against (anti) vax

The sooner you get the difference the better.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you get what I'm saying, though?

I do, but it seems like you don't get what I'm saying. I'm arguing that anti-vaxxers shouldn't be denied care.

I think anti-vaxxers are ignorant, reckless fools, but that alone is no reason to let someone die. It's also no reason to let them run around infecting other people.

When you deny medical treatment to some who are dying from COVID because of their decision it makes it very heartless and a contradiction.

It makes herd immunity feel like Nazi and less about people dying. Do we really hate unvaccinated so much to accuse them of sustaining the pandemic?

It's not a matter of hate; it's a matter of fact.

The biggest factor in the spread of the pandemic now is unvaccinated people. In most of the world, people are unvaccinated because of a lack of vaccine availability. In some countries, vaccine availability is good, but vaccine refusal is the problem.

I certainly don't fault anyone who wants to get vaccinated but can't, but anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers have blood on their hands here.

They are the reason why the US is still the worst country in the world for COVID-19 infections and deaths despite having a vaccine rollout program that many countries could only dream of.

You'd literally have to let half COVID patients die out to achieve herd immunity if what you say is true.

"If what I say is true"? What do you think I'm saying?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

do, but it seems like you don't get what I'm saying. I'm arguing that anti-vaxxers shouldn't be denied care.

I don't agree with the sentiment.

On what grounds?

Do you share the general consensus that if one doesn't lower their risk, they shouldn't get treatment?

I think anti-vaxxers are ignorant, reckless fools, but that alone is no reason to let someone die. It's also no reason to let them run around infecting other people.

Spoke too soon. I don't see it that way unless I have facts. I can't judge if they have covid or not so I could be accusing thousands who don't warrant it.

It's not a matter of hate; it's a matter of fact.

The biggest factor in the spread of the pandemic now is unvaccinated people. In most of the world, people are unvaccinated because of a lack of vaccine availability. In some countries, vaccine availability is good, but vaccine refusal is the problem

It's not based on evidence just assumption of risk.

It isn't. Refusal and exempt can spread the virus. Covid doesn't care about people's reasoning.

I certainly don't fault anyone who wants to get vaccinated but can't, but anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers have blood on their hands here.

They are the reason why the US is still the worst country in the world for COVID-19 infections and deaths despite having a vaccine rollout program that many countries could only dream of.

Why not?
Are you sure it's about the virus???

You believe? (Hint)

They could be. Evidence?
Not stats.

"If what I say is true"? What do you think I'm saying?

It was referring to the assumption you would deny treatment based on unvaccinated people's choices.

You'd be surprised how many believe this because they interpret a risk (high, low, near nonexistant together) with as a fact.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't agree with the sentiment.

On what grounds?

Do you share the general consensus that if one doesn't lower their risk, they shouldn't get treatment?

Read my post again. For comprehension this time.

It was referring to the assumption you would deny treatment based on unvaccinated people's choices.

So you think I said the opposite of what I said.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Do you get what I'm saying, though?

When you deny medical treatment to some who are dying from COVID because of their decision it makes it very heartless and a contradiction.

It makes herd immunity feel like Nazi and less about people dying. Do we really hate unvaccinated so much to accuse them of sustaining the pandemic?

You'd literally have to let half COVID patients die out to achieve herd immunity if what you say is true.

It's not a matter of hate. It's a matter of fact.

That said, I'm not for denying anyone medical treatment, even rabid anti-vaxxers, tempting as it may be.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The current problem in some localities is that unvaccinated covid patients are taking up beds that should be used for heart attack, stroke, hemorrhage, and accident victims. THAT is unethical.

I disagree.
If you go down that road, what's next?

Refusing health care to people with cardio problems because they smoke or eat a lot of mcdonalds?
Refusing health care to people with a broken bone as a result of engaging in extreme sports?
Refusing health care to people with liver problems because they drink?

If you are going to refuse any and all health care to anyone because their health issue was the result of being stupid or a mistake or careless... then yeah, sure, you'll have plenty of hospital beds. You'ld likely have 80% availability at all times while people die in their homes and in the streets and in front of the hospitals while being prevented from coming in.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But they will (and already are) whining about their "freedom."
They whine about a mask. They whine about people/businesses not wanting non-masked people around.
They whine about vaccines, they whine that people refusing vaccines can't do whatever they want.
They are basically just a bunch of selfish whiners.

So?
I bet people whine about having to pay taxes as well.

I don't care how they feel about it. For all I care, authorities can break into their homes, pin them down, and give them a pfizer shot.
Use a tranquilizing gun if that makes it easier, lol.

 

[ecco]

If you are going to refuse any and all health care to anyone because their health issue was the result of being stupid or a mistake or careless... then yeah, sure, you'll have plenty of hospital beds. You'ld likely have 80% availability at all times while people die in their homes and in the streets and in front of the hospitals while being prevented from coming in.

I disagree.
If you go down that road, what's next?

Refusing health care to people with cardio problems because they smoke or eat a lot of mcdonalds?
Refusing health care to people with a broken bone as a result of engaging in extreme sports?
Refusing health care to people with liver problems because they drink?

Your analogies are nonsensical. By and large, the people in your "examples" are hurting no one but themselves with what you consider dangerous behavior. People who intentionally do not get vaccinated are prolonging the pandemic and causing it to spread and mutate. They are responsible for killing people. They do not deserve to take hospital beds from rational people.

Those hospitalizations and deaths are now moving down the age scale to impact children who cannot get vaccinated.

On CBS This Morning, there was a woman, I believe in Lousiana, with covid who could not get a hospital bed for three days. She was not vaccinated. The hospital beds were taken up by other covid patients who, for the most part, were not vaccinated. Should I care? I don't.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Read my post again. For comprehension this time.


So you think I said the opposite of what I said.

I don't agree with the sentiment. That's my point.

Yes. It was an assumption based on other provaxxers who share similar views.

I was wrong.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not a matter of hate. It's a matter of fact.

That said, I'm not for denying anyone medical treatment, even rabid anti-vaxxers, tempting as it may be.

Good. You guys can blame them for killing the world but it's all a generalization based on a handful of silly antivaxxers who don't represent all the unvaccinated.

But I don't see evidence that unvaccinated it people put the vaccinated at risk.....because of their decisions.

Exempt people put others at risk too with that line of thinking.

How is a exempt person putting people in less danger than a nonexempt (what's the difference)?

Is it really about opinion they may spread the virus or just people's decisions you guys disagree with?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

People who intentionally do not get vaccinated are prolonging the pandemic and causing it to spread and mutate. They are responsible for killing people. They do not deserve to take hospital beds from rational people.

What's your solution?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Good. You guys can blame them for killing the world but it's all a generalization based on a handful of silly antivaxxers who don't represent all the unvaccinated.

Of course they don't.

Most people who aren't vaccinated against COVID-19 aren't unvaccinated by choice. They'd get the vaccine if they could.

It's those who refuse the vaccine who are the ones being reckless and foolish.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course they don't.

Most people who aren't vaccinated against COVID-19 aren't unvaccinated by choice. They'd get the vaccine if they could.

It's those who refuse the vaccine who are the ones being reckless and foolish.

I think there are more that choose not to vaccinate than those who can't. Unless every exempt have allergies to the ingredients, CDC lists different possible ailments and conditions so people know that it is safe to take the vaccine if they choose to.

I don't see how they can be without evidence to prove people are actually in danger. It's all based on fear. I bet the majority of the world will take the vaccine so what's the sense of calling just a few foolish when there isn't enough for them to make the pandemic worse?

It's like you guys fear that unvaccinated hold ticking time bombs. They were fine one day and wake up in the morning in threat to the world. It's ridiculous.

The only solution I can think of since education and coercion is not working (rather) is to force people to get vaccinated.

Though that leaves the exempt to spread the virus. How do we handle them?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your analogies are nonsensical.

I disagree. All of them are about people ending up in the hospital due to their own carelessness, ignorance or irresponsible behavior and thereby also taking beds that could be used for other people who might need those beds for things that aren't the result of irresponsible behavior.

By and large, the people in your "examples" are hurting no one but themselves with what you consider dangerous behavior. People who intentionally do not get vaccinated are prolonging the pandemic and causing it to spread and mutate. They are responsible for killing people. They do not deserve to take hospital beds from rational people.

As others have pointed out, refusing them in hospitals would achieve the exact same thing as that also would prolong the pandemic. If they aren't at the hospital in a controlled environment, then they are out and about, infecting others.

So, all the more reason to remove them from the public and put them in a covid bed.