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Your best argument that G-d does not exist

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
Well think about it. If you were omnipotent, you could make the rules to be whatever you wanted. And change them if you wanted to. I don't know how one would apply right and wrong to a being who had total control over everything.

God could torture you, make you suffer. Then wipe it all from ever having happen. Recreate you and give you a happy life. Our sense of time, past and future, right and wrong would have no meaning to an omnipotent being. They could do anything and there would be no repercussions.

With no repercussions how can anything be seen as wrong?

NVM This is way off topic....o_O
Click to expand...

To do a wrong is a blemish. Who could force G-d to do a thing with some imperfection? An Omnipotent must be a perfect being not the imperfect one.
Regards
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
paarsurrey said:
That is not a positive proof that G-d does not exist. Is it an admission that the Atheists don't have a positive proof that G-d does not exist?

Regards
Click to expand...
define what you mean by a "positive proof".
Please present an example of a "positive Proof" for the nonexistence of something.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
To do a wrong is a blemish. Who could force G-d to do a thing with some imperfection? An Omnipotent must be a perfect being not the imperfect one.
Regards
Click to expand...

According to my or your ideal of perfection? I think not. An omnipotent being wouldn't have to answer to anyone. So perfect according to who's concept?

And why must an omnipotent being be perfect? Other than the fact they can do whatever they want.

It's a concept you've built up about God. If a God exists, why would God need to fit to any of man's concepts, about God or about perfection?
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
For me, it's a principle. It is necessary to disbelieve in God so I'm not fooled into believing something which is not God, is.

It's like anything else. It's not about disproving God, it is about not accepting "proof" of God which I am not justified in accepting.

If evidence can be provided which no longer justifies my disbelief, I'm not going to deny it. Just not going to accept something on someone else's say so.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
An omnipotent being wouldn't have to answer to anyone. So perfect according to who's concept?
And why must an omnipotent being be perfect? Other than the fact they can do whatever they want.
Click to expand...

Perfect according to G-d's own concept. He has communicated that all His attributes/names are good, He would do only what will ultimately be good, nobody could force Him doing bad.
[7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do.
Al-Quran​
Regards
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Perfect according to G-d's own concept. He has communicated that all His attributes/names are good, He would do only what will ultimately be good, nobody could force Him doing bad.
[7:181] And to Allah alone belong all perfect attributes. So call on Him by these. And leave alone those who deviate from the right way with respect to His attributes. They shall be repaid for what they do.
Al-Quran​
Regards
Click to expand...

Yes, your trust in prophets which I can't share. You have your reasons...
I've just no reason to trust people I've never met. Few enough reasons to trust those I have met.

Nothing to do with you, but I wish the ISIS folks would leave them "deviates" alone.
 
A

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
That is not a positive proof that G-d does not exist. Is it an admission that the Atheists don't have a positive proof that G-d does not exist?

Regards
Click to expand...
The biblical God can't logically exist. He is described as omnipotent yet can't defeat iron chariots, some places the Bible say that some people have seen him, other places it says that God can't be seen. Such a God can't exist.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
Do you trust people you have met with?
If one is truthful; one should trust him whether one has met him or not.
Regards
Click to expand...

How do you know they are truthful if you've never met them?

Generally I see it's people willing to admit to their shortcomings but even that is a gamble. People usually don't display their morals for everyone to see.

People convince themselves they can separate the truthful from the liars but generally that's not true.


Then there's people like the Apostle Paul. While I think he actually believed what he wrote, that doesn't mean he wasn't mistaken. Trusting is more then knowing the intentional lie but also trusting that the person actually knew what they were talking about. Unless there's some way to verify that, you're taking a big risk.
 
Kartari

Kartari

Active Member
Hi paarsurrey,

paarsurrey said:
The Atheists to give their proofs and evidences to convince the Theists

Regards
Click to expand...

I'm sure this was brought up earlier in this debate (I haven't read back very far), as I can see that at least a few posters have been alluding to it. But it's worth repeating, as it's perhaps the most critical point to this debate. I'm afraid your very request is illogical. You are shifting the burden of proof, an all-too common logical fallacy in my experience with deity-existence debates. I've encountered a number of theists who seem to have a real problem comprehending why this logical fallacy is in fact a logical fallacy. Hopefully you can understand that, in challenging others to disprove a tenuous claim (i.e. deities exist and/or Deity exists), you are attempting to relieve yourself of your rightful burden to first prove your own claim. You will need to satisfactorily assert your own case for God's existence first, with your best reasonable argumentation, so that we have something to argue against. Otherwise, this is a non-argument.

So before we can really continue, you will need to first define the god(s) you are referring to, and then give us your reasoning as to why these god(s) do exist. Apologies if you did so already, but if you did, please let me know and I'll see if I can find where you defined your position.
 
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JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
paarsurrey said:
The Atheists to give their proofs and evidences to convince the Theists

Regards
Click to expand...

When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided. (2:186)

The Bible has similar verses about the power of prayer. Yet, when I had faith in god and when my faith was waning none of my prayers were ever answered. Ever. Odd that the quran and the bible say that god answers prayers yet when I prayed he never did. So that must mean the god of the bible/quran doesn't exist or is a liar.

I'm sure you'll come back with some BS comment that I'm just not worthy of your god's attention for one BS reason or another to ignore my argument. You may also respond with a nonsense BS comment that he answered but I wasn't listening or some other rubbish. So, don't feel any pressure to respond. You have no words or insights that will offer any kind of enlightenment about anything. You have also affixed the blinders of mindless dogma so tightly upon yourself that you are incapable of honest debate on this subject.

Have a good one.
 
Kartari

Kartari

Active Member
Hi again, paarsurrey,

So I found these two posts of yours:

paarsurrey said:
Sorry sir, I have a system and I don't shift any burden to others. Please read my post # 159 where I defined G-d and said G-d of the said definition and attributes has communicated with righteous human beings always in all regions of the world and at all times, at His discretion.

Please have a look again.

Regards

Point to note:
Nobody has given so far any positive proofs and evidences that “G-d does not exist"; here we discuss this topic.
Strong Atheists! Please don't shift your burden; weak ones are excused, if they so like.
Click to expand...

paarsurrey said:
I think I have defined G-d that I believe in in some recent posts in other threads. There is however no harm giving it here again:

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim. Our G-d is identified by many attributes or these good attributes identify him. I give some of His attributes:

[2:256]Allah — there is no God but He, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining. Slumber seizes Him not, nor sleep. To Him belongs whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that will intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them; and they encompass nothing of His knowledge except what He pleases. His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth; and the care of them burdens Him not; and He is the High, the Great.
Quran : Chapter 2
He has existed always and has communicated with righteous persons in every region of the world and in all ages.
His communication identifies that He exists.

Regards
Click to expand...

So you believe you have soundly asserted God's existence because you perceive that God communicates to humanity through "righteous persons," and the perceived fact of this communication is evidence of said God. Correct?

Offhand, I can think of several valid reasons why this fails to pass logical muster. So... how do you know your claim of communication is factually true?
 
Rick O'Shez

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
God allowed the Holocaust. So either God didn't care, or God was powerless to intervene, and in either case, what USE is He? The third option is that God doesn't exist.

Given the complete lack of objective evidence for God, and the human tendency to grasp at metaphysical straws because they fear death, the third option seems most likely.

So endeth the lesson. ;)
 
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