Your Opinion on Knowledge...

[horizon_mj1]

If a child who grows up in a disadvantaged area as well as lacking in financial needs, and is denied knowledge is this fair if A) they have potential to seriously contribute to human enhancement and security or B) although being an outstanding honorary student grants and financial aid are not available.

My personal thought is this; all knowledge has a price (kind of like the old saying "no good deed goes unpunished") there are just some who feel the need to take advantage. I feel this way for this reason; if a person takes the time to study something on their own and has the same if not more knowledge than a college graduate of the same criteria, there should be a way to at least get some kind of acknowledgment.

 

[Caladan]

It is also possible that you underestimate the academy. When I began studying in the university, I really began to understand how little I knew. It changed my mind on various issues and gave me access to a higher level of research and definitely a higher level of standards.
Don't get me wrong. Being an autodidact is a great gift, but at some point we have to take a baptism of fire in a peer review environment.

 

[horizon_mj1]

It is also possible that you underestimate the academy. When I began studying in the university, I really began to understand how little I knew. It changed my mind on various issues and gave me access to a higher level of research and definitely a higher level of standards.
Don't get me wrong. Being an autodidact is a great gift, but at some point we have to take a baptism of fire in a peer review environment.

I absolutely agree with all but my underestimation, being experienced in academy myself. You are right that your mind changes through these experiences not only from the knowledge but from the life set as well. The baptism of fire adorned by peers at times can be difficult for an autodidact to find. Even if found there is usually a price (not just personal but monetary as well) to be paid.

 

[Caladan]

I absolutely agree with all but my underestimation, being experienced in academy myself. You are right that your mind changes through these experiences not only from the knowledge but from the life set as well. The baptism of fire adorned by peers at times can be difficult for an autodidact to find. Even if found there is usually a price (not just personal but monetary as well) to be paid.

I guess it all depends where one wishes to take their interest. I want better possibilities in the organization I work at so in the long run I might be looking at a PhD. And it's true, I have to put money on the side each month in order to complete my postgraduate studies.
But if someone can carve a niche for themselves by self exploration, testing, and staying up to date with the academic world at the same time, kudos to them. I know that with the academic skills I gained I can certainly go and expand my knowledge by myself, but it demands my participation in academic and professional environment at the same time.

If you can give some examples, it would be helpful.

 

[Reverend Richard]

......... if a person takes the time to study something on their own and has the same if not more knowledge than a college graduate of the same criteria, there should be a way to at least get some kind of acknowledgment.

I think it's a great idea! But:

1.How would you measure their knowledge in order to bestow some meaningful acknowledgment?

2. Who would be the authority to both measure and bestow that acknowledgment?

3. What would that acknowledgement be worth in societal terms?
​

In general, a person who is self-educated and has been able to apply his knowledge to the betterment of society, or perhaps to develop a new or better "product" will more than likely be rewarded financially for his or her efforts.

Sometimes, knowledge is it's own reward, but knowledge without application is inert.

 

[horizon_mj1]

I guess it all depends where one wishes to take their interest. I want better possibilities in the organization I work at so in the long run I might be looking at a PhD. And it's true, I have to put money on the side each month in order to complete my postgraduate studies.
But if someone can carve a niche for themselves by self exploration, testing, and staying up to date with the academic world at the same time, kudos to them. I know that with the academic skills I gained I can certainly go and expand my knowledge by myself, but it demands my participation in academic and professional environment at the same time.

If you can give some examples, it would be helpful.

Cannot think of one right off the top of my head, but; someone with both social and academic skills without proper resources available to them (rather the resources be monetary or proper social circles accessable to them).

 

[horizon_mj1]

Needn

I think it's a great idea! But:

1.How would you measure their knowledge in order to bestow some meaningful acknowledgment?

2. Who would be the authority to both measure and bestow that acknowledgment?

3. What would that acknowledgment be worth in societal terms?
​

In general, a person who is self-educated and has been able to apply his knowledge to the betterment of society, or perhaps to develop a new or better "product" will more than likely be rewarded financially for his or her efforts.

Sometimes, knowledge is it's own reward, but knowledge without application is inert.

IMO one proper way to measure their knowledge would be a group of professors and experts devising an appropriate test in the proper fields acquired. The authority could consist of the same professors as well as people who work in the tested field to assure appropriate measures are being taken. A "secondary" diploma or certification can be given for acknowledgment. In social terms companies would have a better opportunity to allot people in the same fields with pay variations. (Of course I feel the ones who payed for their education should be payed better) I like your last statement

 

[Reverend Richard]

Needn
IMO one proper way to measure their knowledge would be a group of professors and experts devising an appropriate test in the proper fields acquired. The authority could consist of the same professors as well as people who work in the tested field to assure appropriate measures are being taken. A "secondary" diploma or certification can be given for acknowledgment. In social terms companies would have a better opportunity to allot people in the same fields with pay variations. (Of course I feel the ones who payed for their education should be payed better) I like your last statement

To some extent, it is (or was) already possible to do this. When I was in college (back in the 70s and 80s - yes, I am old) it was possible to "test-out" of some college-level classes. By testing out of a class, or classes, if you passed, you were given credit for your current level of knowledge without actually having to sit through the college courses. I would assume this is still possible at some colleges and universities.

However, having taught at the college level, I'm sure there will be resistance in academia to granting diplomas to those who have never matriculated on a college campus, or at least never taken formal course work through something like an on-line college or university. Academics tend to be a protective and clicky lot, and perhaps rightly so; studying and writing a thesis or dissertation at the doctoral level (or even at the masters level) can be a gruelling task.

 

[Reptillian]

if a person takes the time to study something on their own and has the same if not more knowledge than a college graduate of the same criteria, there should be a way to at least get some kind of acknowledgment

I agree and see this as one of the major problems with our current system. Based on personal experience, I can tell you that when it comes to finding a job the old saying is true; what you know isn't as important as who you know.

 

[horizon_mj1]

To some extent, it is (or was) already possible to do this. When I was in college (back in the 70s and 80s - yes, I am old) it was possible to "test-out" of some college-level classes. By testing out of a class, or classes, if you passed, you were given credit for your current level of knowledge without actually having to sit through the college courses. I would assume this is still possible at some colleges and universities.

However, having taught at the college level, I'm sure there will be resistance in academia to granting diplomas to those who have never matriculated on a college campus, or at least never taken formal course work through something like an on-line college or university. Academics tend to be a protective and clicky lot, and perhaps rightly so; studying and writing a thesis or dissertation at the doctoral level (or even at the masters level) can be a grueling task.

You can still test out of certain classes and receive credits for that class (I believe the are referred to as Pell exams). You are right about how Academics can tend to be a clicky and protective lot, and how studying and writing thesis at masters' level can be grueling (personal experience); however do not agree with the levels of "clickyness" and protection given to something that is by right owned by all humanity, and that is Knowledge.

What I am trying to get at here is; do you feel it is OK to withhold knowledge even if doing so can be detrimental?

 

[horizon_mj1]

I agree and see this as one of the major problems with our current system. Based on personal experience, I can tell you that when it comes to finding a job the old saying is true; what you know isn't as important as who you know.

I find this sad, and agree with you. It can be frustrating when a person qualified for a job is looked over because someone else has been with the company longer gets it for that reason alone, even though they may not be qualified.

 

[Alex_G]

If a child who grows up in a disadvantaged area as well as lacking in financial needs, and is denied knowledge is this fair if A) they have potential to seriously contribute to human enhancement and security or B) although being an outstanding honorary student grants and financial aid are not available.

My personal thought is this; all knowledge has a price (kind of like the old saying "no good deed goes unpunished") there are just some who feel the need to take advantage. I feel this way for this reason; if a person takes the time to study something on their own and has the same if not more knowledge than a college graduate of the same criteria, there should be a way to at least get some kind of acknowledgment.

This strikes me as advocating 'let knowledge speak for itself', of which I’m in favour of.
It shouldn’t really matter who someone is when you read what they have to say. A scientist is not correct about a certain topic by virtue of his status as 'a scientist'. He could be right or wrong independent to that fact.
In today’s era i think it’s even more possible than ever to create an effective platform whereby anyone can voice opinions on subjects and show their work to the world. In a way the anonymisation of the author would be quite refreshing and sobering.

There are a lot of people in this world, and many gems among the rough, most of which never get discovered because our tools for searching for them are often far too inadequate. For all the benefits that come from institutions like universities come a host of problems too. Too often status, politics, egos and hierarchical systems interfere with the honest pursuit of knowledge and truth to its detriment.

 

[horizon_mj1]

This strikes me as advocating 'let knowledge speak for itself', of which I’m in favour of.
It shouldn’t really matter who someone is when you read what they have to say. A scientist is not correct about a certain topic by virtue of his status as 'a scientist'. He could be right or wrong independent to that fact.
In today’s era i think it’s even more possible than ever to create an effective platform whereby anyone can voice opinions on subjects and show their work to the world. In a way the anonymisation of the author would be quite refreshing and sobering.

There are a lot of people in this world, and many gems among the rough, most of which never get discovered because our tools for searching for them are often far too inadequate. For all the benefits that come from institutions like universities come a host of problems too. Too often status, politics, egos and hierarchical systems interfere with the honest pursuit of knowledge and truth to its detriment.

Thank you very much for lending the words that eluded me I could not have said it better.