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Your suggestions for relocation places for Americans post election
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
I would bypass France. We're great at a lot of things, but hospitality is not our strong suit and salaries here are much, much lower that in the US. FYI, the UK has been turned into something similar to California with insane prices and loads of criminality. Not the best option either. Hope this helps.
It's one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen, super clean too. If you ever go, you need to do a tour of the metro stations. They're amazing.
Australia doesn't really exist. Neither do its mythical
animals, eg, platypus, kangaroo, drop bear.
So I urge Trump's opponents to stay here.
They've work to do.
You will be very welcome to visit, and I'll give you the whole bottle... and drive you around
Audie
Veteran Member
It’s not cubic meters of space per se.
But if youve no thoughts re overpopulation and
environment, then maybe it is cubic meters.
You might visit HK and see if more people
would be desireable.
What work is that? Trump opponents did what they could and still got Trump. Their problems are due to being outnumbered by people that are indifferent to Trump and either weren't motivated to get out to vote or else voted for him.
There comes a time when one should ask what it is he says he loves when he says he loves his country. It might just be an outdated notion, one that once deserved his respect and was his friend but has since morphed to something else.
An analogy might be a business one works for that once treated its employees generously, fairly, and with respect, but has evolved for the worse and now no longer does. It is now run by people that don't share his values and no longer care about product quality, customers, or staff - just CEOs and stockholders. It wants to remove his retirement plan and insurance benefits, and workplace safety is no longer a concern.
What's his duty to such a company?
This is how I view America. When I was young, it was a friend, and something I could love and be proud of. It helped me get an education with good school lunches, cleaned up the skies of smog, lead, and ozone depleting CFCs, and made sure that I was vaccinated. We played a major role beating the bad guys in WWII and saving the world from despotism. Social Security and Medicare are vestiges of that golden age, when a single earner could support a family of four including a mortgage, a car payment, braces for junior, and a vacation every year. That was a country to stand behind.
But look at what it's become. The Republicans want to undo much of that, and your neighbors are abetting them at it.
I went through much of my transformation in my medical career, which was a series of assaults on my autonomy and income. First, my government empowered insurance companies to make medical decisions on behalf of patients and physicians while decreasing patient safety and increasing physician liability for a cut of what used to be payments to health care professionals (HMOs).
Then they started changing the rules on what services physicians could provide and bill for. I had an office lab, but new CLIA regulations said that I could no longer charge for using those machines. Later, they told me that I had to close down the physical therapy department in my office, which was also several thousand dollars' worth of equipment that like the lab equipment, I was free to use, but not to bill for. My anger for this was growing year by year.
The last straw - the one that caused me to retire - came in the first decade of the century, when digital medical record became required in order to participate in Medicare. The software was $25,000 alone. By the time you added the expense of converting existing paper records to digital format and a few lesser expenses such as additional hardware and staff training, we're looking at a $40,000 expense that, unlike say a cardiac treadmill, generated no income to offset its cost. It was like giving a nice, new car away to these vendors.
The galling part is that the government could have commissioned the software and distributed it for free to the hospitals and medical offices, but that would interfere with some private companies making a profit, and so, instead, we had dozens of software platforms in use not all compatible with one another.
By way of a contrast, the American Contract Bridge League developed free software for the bridge clubs of the world to use when bridge went digital (we enter results at the table which are collected by RF in a computer, where scoring and uploading to the Internet for review of hands at home are performed).
But my government was looking out for the medical software manufacturers, not its physicians.
It became clear over time that this government was NOT my friend. It became pretty easy to expatriate because of all of that. The "one nation under God" stuff made me feel like an outsider or not fully American even in grade school, and the Bush years didn't sweeten the American deal any, so unlike leaving home for college or the military, moving on in this setting was an easy transition psychologically with no sense of homesickness.
So, your idea that there's work to do in America opposing Trump rings hollow here. Trump IS America now. It's his country, not yours. He'll use it as he sees fit to his own advantage, and your neighbors supported him in that and will do it again and again. I say leave them to what they have wrought and if you can, move on to greener pastures.
I understand that there may be financial, health, language, and family responsibility barriers to changing countries, but for those for whom it is an option, there are much more desirable places one can be, and any sense of attachment to the States based in the memories of the past perhaps should be reassessed.
Our lives improved dramatically with the move. Our last year in Missouri, we experienced a local tornado, a flood, and an ice storm with loss of power for a week in the freezing cold. Here. it's always good weather. Prices are better. The people are happier. We'd be fools forego all of that over a romantic notion of patriotism to a nation that is unrecognizable compared to the one where those feelings first arose.
Audie
Veteran Member
Ridiculous is making things up.
Resist authoritarianism & bigotry.
And prepare for 2028
Meh.
You can give up.
I won't.
USA already has massive water shortages in much of the country.
Natural spaces are being paved or plowed over at an alarming rate.
Building costs are skyrocketing as buildable land dwindles.
We won't benefit from having more people.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I'm all for population control. I find the number, derived by scientists, of 2 billion people for a sustainable ecosystem most rational.
It's not about the number of people on Earth, but about the number of people in a specific area. And China isn't that overpopulated compared to other places like Japan or most of Europe.
Hong Kong is definitely a place that is very densely populated (as is Singapore).
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
1. Norway – Known for strong democratic institutions, high levels of personal freedom, and robust civil liberties.
2. Finland – Praised for its free press, political rights, and civil liberties, as well as its effective and transparent government.
3. Sweden – Recognized for its comprehensive social safety net, freedom of speech, and high political freedom.
4. Denmark – Offers a transparent government, strong rule of law, and extensive individual rights.
5. New Zealand – Known for its protection of political freedoms, a free press, and active civil society.
6. Switzerland – Offers political and economic freedom, with a strong emphasis on direct democracy and personal rights.
7. Canada – High rankings in political and civil freedoms, with a stable democracy and strong legal protections.
8. The Netherlands – Offers significant individual liberties, including LGBTQ+ rights, freedom of speech, and a liberal social system.
9. Australia – High political rights, freedoms of speech and press, and a transparent legal system.
10. Iceland – Known for its high levels of political freedom, gender equality, and civil liberties.
These rankings often come from sources like Freedom House, The Economist Intelligence Unit's Democracy Index, and the Human Freedom Index by the Cato Institute, which collectively assess various freedoms related to democracy, rule of law, and civil liberties.
2. Finland – Praised for its free press, political rights, and civil liberties, as well as its effective and transparent government.
3. Sweden – Recognized for its comprehensive social safety net, freedom of speech, and high political freedom.
4. Denmark – Offers a transparent government, strong rule of law, and extensive individual rights.
5. New Zealand – Known for its protection of political freedoms, a free press, and active civil society.
6. Switzerland – Offers political and economic freedom, with a strong emphasis on direct democracy and personal rights.
7. Canada – High rankings in political and civil freedoms, with a stable democracy and strong legal protections.
8. The Netherlands – Offers significant individual liberties, including LGBTQ+ rights, freedom of speech, and a liberal social system.
9. Australia – High political rights, freedoms of speech and press, and a transparent legal system.
10. Iceland – Known for its high levels of political freedom, gender equality, and civil liberties.
These rankings often come from sources like Freedom House, The Economist Intelligence Unit's Democracy Index, and the Human Freedom Index by the Cato Institute, which collectively assess various freedoms related to democracy, rule of law, and civil liberties.
Heyo
Veteran Member
The idea of only comparing population density without any other parameters comes from @anotherneil and I agree that it's a bit naïve. But even with land and resource use, the US is far from being as densely populated as Japan or Europe. The rampant xenophobia can not be rationalized by population density.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
They do and I am very familiar with the various African countries.I don't know that US citizens always think of Antarctica and Africa as countries, or what this has to do with this thread.
If you're referring to US Southerners, then maybe it would explain why there's a genre of music from the US South called "country music" even though the US South isn't a country.
In the US South? I'm not sure.
Xenophobia or not...USA's population is already
hard on the environment. More people will mean
more loss of natural spaces, more extinctions,
increased resource costs, more pollution, more
greenhouse gas emissions, more traffic, & more
urban sprawl.
I'd rather not head in that direction.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Hmm, you may be right. I didn't see it from that side. The ecological footprint of people living in the US is so much bigger than about anywhere else. From an ecological standpoint we should be working towards depopulating the US.
We should drop back to 200,000,000 as a start.
We can then re-assess.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Not as stable as I once thought, unfortunately.
It seems likely that the Conservatives will get in - and probably get a majority - next time.
Kind of like the US, our right wing has morphed over the years. It used to be mostly about fiscal restraint, but now it's chock-full of anti-choicers, climate change denialists, and anti-vaxxers (including a fair number of MPs and potential candidates who supported or participated in the occupation in Ottawa or the border blockades).
I'm expecting things to be a fair bit worse than they were under Stephen Harper, and that wasn't a great time.