Your Theism Category - A Poll

[lunamoth]

Gnostic doesn't necessarily have anything to do with theism. You can be an "agnostic gnostic" even . . .

I know - I am an agnostic theist. But, we have a sub-forum for Gnosticism, I thought.

 

[Alceste]

I voted atheist, but roughly 6 out of 8 of those terms could be rightly applied to me in certain contexts.

-I'm an atheist in the sense that I don't believe in gods. (And I'm an explicit atheist in the sense that I have examined the question of gods and do not believe in any of them.)
-I'm a non-theist in the sense that I don't believe in gods, or redundancy.
-I'm an apatheist to a certain extent, in the sense that I don't find religion to be particularly relevant in my life. But it interests me for sociological and psychological reasons, and because I value truth.
-I'm an agnostic in the sense that I do not have knowledge concerning gods (and am a fairly strong agnostic in the sense that I don't think anyone, or almost anyone, has reliable knowledge concerning gods). Reason and observation can, however, rule out certain god concepts.
-I'm an ignostic towards vague god concepts.
-I'm an anti-theist towards beliefs that I find particularly harmful and immoral, and/or that infringe on the rights of others.

This, exactly. Thanks for typing out my response for me Penumbra!

I couldn't pick one.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

i chose ignostic mostly because i'm tried of having the discussion about what an atheist is. practically, i'm an atheist/non-theist because those god concepts that have been defined to me have turned up unconvincing. although i also dont like to allow people to go around puffing up a poorly-defined word as if it was established truth. i find difinitive terms necessary for any discussion and therefore will not let anyone proceed in a conversation about "god(s)" without working out a functional definition ahead of time. (even when someone says "god bless you" after a sneeze, i like to ask what they mean by "god", gives people something to consider.)

and i think that it's really cute that when you claim to be an ignostic, people require a definition before proceeding. =) the definition of the word itself gives a good framework for the expectations you will have.

 

[lunamoth]

I voted Non-Theist.


Atheism: "God is not or is most likely not there".

Non-Theism: "God is most likely or absolutely not there and along with the other things without proof."

Technically it is a synonym for naturalism.

Interesting. If I were to put the terms along some kind of spectrum, I would have put non-theism closer to apatheism (more passive) and atheism closer to anti-theism (more active). Non-theism seems more neutral, while most people I know who call themselves atheists are more likely to actively dislike religion, unless they are aligned with Eastern religions like Buddhism that can be atheistic.

most passive = apatheism < non-theism < atheism < anti-theism = most active rejection of religion/theism

 

[lunamoth]

i chose ignostic mostly because i'm tried of having the discussion about what an atheist is. practically, i'm an atheist/non-theist because those god concepts that have been defined to me have turned up unconvincing. although i also dont like to allow people to go around puffing up a poorly-defined word as if it was established truth. i find difinitive terms necessary for any discussion and therefore will not let anyone proceed in a conversation about "god(s)" without working out a functional definition ahead of time. (even when someone says "god bless you" after a sneeze, i like to ask what they mean by "god", gives people something to consider.)

and i think that it's really cute that when you claim to be an ignostic, people require a definition before proceeding. =) the definition of the word itself gives a good framework for the expectations you will have.

Although the dichotomy of the poll options between epistemology concerns and metaphysical concerns was not intentional (I was just trying to include most of the categories I most often see people using in this forum), it has been interesting to see how some people gravitate toward the categories that have to do with what they can know, and others toward what they believe.

I appreciate your rigor toward clarity of terms in discussion.

 

[waitasec]

"The difference between theism and nontheism is not whether one does or does not believe in God.[...] Theism is a deep-seated conviction that there's some hand to hold [...] Non-theism is relaxing with the ambiguity and uncertainty of the present moment without reaching for anything to protect ourselves [...] Nontheism is finally realizing there is no babysitter you can count on."

Nontheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i was deciding between anti theist or non theist and opted for non theist...
i gravitated towards this quote...

 

[Breathe]

"The difference between theism and nontheism is not whether one does or does not believe in God.[...] Theism is a deep-seated conviction that there's some hand to hold [...] Non-theism is relaxing with the ambiguity and uncertainty of the present moment without reaching for anything to protect ourselves [...] Nontheism is finally realizing there is no babysitter you can count on."

This quote doesn't really work though, except with specific view types.

I consider myself as a theist, but that doesn't mean I have a view there's someone I can 'count on' or anyone's "hand I can hold".

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have no idea what I am in this context, and do not label my self in this way.
I believe in the Concept of God
I believe in the Holy spirit.
I follow the teachings of Jesus

I would have no problem believing that there might be other subordinate "Local" gods in the universe.
I find it impossible to describe God, and I know nothing of his purpose.
The Holy spirit seem to be the most active element in the world, and seems more "Personal" than God.
I am not at all sure of the connection of Jesus to God.
the concept of the Trinity seems flawed.

 

[Breathe]

Unitarian with regards to Trinity, monolatry regarding other gods, Terry?

 

[lunakilo]

I voted atheist.

Mostly because it one of the few on the list (apart from theist which I am not) I think I know what means.

 

[Ozzie]

Hi All,

All of these threads about how we define atheism etc. have piqued my curiosity. In this poll please choose the category that most closely matches your worldview/philosophy. I did not include 'other' because I would like participants to pick the one they think matches closest, even if not perfect.

Post and include a definition or clarification to go with your vote.

~ luna

I don't mean to "pique" your curiosity, but don't you think all these categories are just a waste of time. Either you believe or you don't believe. What you believe in is as hard to define as what you don't believe in. No matter how you slice belief cake in discussing "belief", your still going to have to offer non-belief cake. In saying this I think belief or non-belief is very much a decision, as opposed to confusion which accurately describes agnosticism/suspending judgment (I believe).

 

[blackout]

"The difference between theism and nontheism is not whether one does or does not believe in God.[...] Theism is a deep-seated conviction that there's some hand to hold [...] Non-theism is relaxing with the ambiguity and uncertainty of the present moment without reaching for anything to protect ourselves [...] Nontheism is finally realizing there is no babysitter you can count on."

Nontheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i was deciding between anti theist or non theist and opted for non theist...
i gravitated towards this quote...

yeah..... sorry.

that quote is non comprehensive
(covering only a certain kinds of theists)

I consider mySelf theist,
and yet...
there is no "babysitter" I count on for anything.


BTW: non theists do reach for all kinds of things to "protect" themselves.
insurance policies, jobs that seem safe, lawyers, money, retirement plans.....

 

[lunamoth]

I don't mean to "pique" your curiosity,

That's just an expression where I'm from. It just means that something made me curious. It's like how in other parts of the world people might say "G'day mate" to mean "hello, friend."

but don't you think all these categories are just a waste of time. Either you believe or you don't believe. What you believe in is as hard to define as what you don't believe in. No matter how you slice belief cake in discussing "belief", your still going to have to offer non-belief cake. In saying this I think belief or non-belief is very much a decision, as opposed to confusion which accurately describes agnosticism/suspending judgment (I believe).

I don't think it is a waste of time, but a conversation starter. I've appreciated reading the views people have shared so far in this thread, and learned a bit about how people think about belief, non-belief.

 

[waitasec]

yeah..... sorry.

that quote is non comprehensive
(covering only a certain kinds of theists)

I consider mySelf theist,
and yet...
there is no "babysitter" I count on for anything.


BTW: non theists do reach for all kinds of things to "protect" themselves.
insurance policies, jobs that seem safe, lawyers, money, retirement plans.....

considering my background (as a theist who felt comfort from it)...that is why "i" gravitated to the quote.
people do have their reasons for choosing, i'm guessing that is why there are so many ways to express ones a-theism...

btw, i'm self employed...


i meant no harm, it's just explains my journey...

 

[uu_sage]

I would describe my self as a strict monotheist embracing panentheism. God is present in creation yet is greater than the creation.

 

[blackout]

considering my background (as a theist who felt comfort from it)...that is why "i" gravitated to the quote.
people do have their reasons for choosing, i'm guessing that is why there are so many ways to express ones a-theism...

btw, i'm self employed...


i meant no harm, it's just explains my journey...

That's cool.

eh, and the quote rubbed me the wrong way a bit.
(as it seemed to be a' loaded' overgeralization)

but we're all different.

I SHOULD be Self employed,
as I used to be. anyway...

of course I just meant that
a majority of people look for
a degree of security and comfort
in a whole host of things.
Yet, there is no guarantee of either,
in anything.

 

[waitasec]

That's cool.

eh, and the quote rubbed me the wrong way a bit.
(as it seemed to be a' loaded' overgeralization)

but we're all different.

I SHOULD be Self employed,
as I used to be. anyway...

of course I just meant that
a majority of people look for
a degree of security and comfort
in a whole host of things.
Yet, there is no guarantee of either,
in anything.

i can see why the mis-understanding...
:sorry1:
you are quite right...there isn't a lasting guarantee in either...
for one it's a reality one has to face day to day for the other it's a fleeting thought until the inevitable, hopefully on their terms...
sort of like death

 

[filthy tugboat]

Was hard for me to choose because I fit three of the above categories, I suppose ignostic covers the other two pretty well though.

 

[filthy tugboat]

Interesting poll, Luna. I noticed that there was a choice for "anti-theist," but not one for "anti-atheist." Was this an oversight or was there a reason for that? I also noticed that one person so far voted that he is an "anti-theist." I personally fail to see the rationale behind being "anti" anybody else's beliefs. They're beliefs, for crying out loud. I don't care if people don't believe in God. Why should anybody care that I do? Basically, what I'm saying is that anybody who would label himself an "anti-theist" is saying that he is "against" two-thirds of the world's population, which is something you could only be if you were bigoted enough to feel justified in painting them all with the same brush.

It is less about the individual theists and more about the concept of theism and what it represents. This position is usually taken by people because theism isn't necessarily just people who believe in God, it is often times people who believe in God and try to push their beliefs and agenda into politics and generally onto others. This position of active opposition is not necessarily one of violence or anything like that, mostly it is just fighting against religious input.

 

[filthy tugboat]

Ignostics are questioning what god is, there are so many definitions.

I found that the definition is not knowing what God is rather than just questioning.

Atheism: "God is not or is most likely not there".

I also disagree with this definition, to be more general and subsequently applicable to more people that associate with atheism the more acceptable and certainly most literal definition would be one who is 'without theism'.

Non-Theism: "God is most likely or absolutely not there and along with the other things without proof."

I never really understood the separation between non-theist and atheist, I actually thought it was a term coined because people did not want to be called atheists due to a lot of the stigmatizm that many religious groups have associated with the term. I am fairly confident that stigmatizm was created out of ignorance but none the less, it is still present.