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Your thoughts on other religions
- Thread starter Terese
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I'll give my views, but I'll have to answer the question in reverse.
I know that such a stance isn't what a lot of people like to hear in our pluralistic and relativistic age, but I don't believe in flip-flopping around our convictions.
Strictly speaking, all other religious are false. Not in that they do not contain any truth at all, nor that they are bereft of admirable virtues, but that only the Christian revelation holds salvific value. And that only by entering in communion with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Chruch can anyone take full advantage of the graces that God gives us to the service of that end.
I know that such a stance isn't what a lot of people like to hear in our pluralistic and relativistic age, but I don't believe in flip-flopping around our convictions.
That would depend on the religion. I can hold deep respect and admiration for Buddhism and the eightfold path; Confucianism for its exhortations towards order and social propriety. I found the Bhagavad Gita to be a beautiful text and there's much to admire in Judaism and Islam too. But again, while they may point us towards the Logos it's only though Christ that we can actually know who that Logos is.
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Pssst, this is a DIR section.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
They're all wrong.
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My views differ a lot from mainstream Christianity, which is almost entirely based on the Augustinian theology.
I am quite sure that some Catholics will agree with me, though.
I am a Christian who decided to adhere to the Pelagian theology. According to this theology (people can read Pelagius's Letter to Demetrias, if they're interested), all religions and all beliefs (including atheism or agnosticism) are equal in God's eyes. Because God cares about people's actions and not about people's faith.
I am quite sure that some Catholics will agree with me, though.
I am a Christian who decided to adhere to the Pelagian theology. According to this theology (people can read Pelagius's Letter to Demetrias, if they're interested), all religions and all beliefs (including atheism or agnosticism) are equal in God's eyes. Because God cares about people's actions and not about people's faith.
https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/audiences/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_aud_09091998.html
POPE SAINT JOHN PAUL II
GENERAL AUDIENCE
Wednesday 9 September 1998
1. In Nostra aetate, the Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, the Second Vatican Council teaches that “the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men” (Nostra aetate, n. 2).
Taking up the Council’s teaching from the first Encyclical Letter of my Pontificate, I have wished to recall the ancient doctrine formulated by the Fathers of the Church, which says that we must recognize “the seeds of the Word” present and active in the various religions (Ad gentes, n. 11; Lumen gentium, n. 17). This doctrine leads us to affirm that, though the routes taken may be different, “there is but a single goal to which is directed the deepest aspiration of the human spirit as expressed in its quest for God and also in its quest, through its tending towards God, for the full dimension of its humanity, or in other words, for the full meaning of human life” (Redemptor hominis, n. 11).
The “seeds of truth” present and active in the various religious traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God, who “enlightens every man coming into world” (cf. Jn 1:9) and who became flesh in Christ Jesus (cf. Jn 1:14). They are together an “effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body” and which “blows where it wills” (Jn 3:8; cf. Redemptor hominis, nn. 6, 12). Keeping this doctrine in mind, the celebration of the Jubilee of the Year 2000 “will provide a great opportunity, especially in view of the events of recent decades, for interreligious dialogue” (Tertio millennio adveniente, n. 53). Even now, during this pneumatological year, it is fitting to pause and consider in what sense and in what ways the Holy Spirit is present in humanity’s religious quest and in the various experiences and traditions that express it.
2. It must first be kept in mind that every quest of the human spirit for truth and goodness, and in the last analysis for God, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God’s Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions.
In every authentic religious experience, the most characteristic expression is prayer. Because of the human spirit’s constitutive openness to God’s action of urging it to self-transcendence, we can hold that “every authentic prayer is called forth by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person” (Address to the Members of the Roman Curia, 22 Dec. 1986, n. 11; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 5 Jan. 1987, p. 7).
We experienced an eloquent manifestation of this truth at the World Day of Prayer for Peace on 27 October 1986 in Assisi, and on other similar occasions of great spiritual intensity.
3. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic expressions of prayer. “The Spirit’s presence and activity”, as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, “affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions” (n. 28).
Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation, 19 May 1991, n. 29; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 1 July 1991, p. III).
Indeed, as the Second Vatican Council teaches, “since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of coming into contact, in a way known to God, with the paschal mystery” (Gaudium et spes, n. 22).
This possibility is achieved through sincere, inward adherence to the Truth, generous self-giving to one’s neighbour and the search for the Absolute inspired by the Spirit of God. A ray of the divine Wisdom is also shown through the fulfilment of the precepts and practices that conform to the moral law and to authentic religious sense. Precisely by virtue of the Spirit’s presence and action, the good elements found in the various religions mysteriously prepare hearts to receive the full revelation of God in Christ.
4. For the reasons mentioned here, the attitude of the Church and of individual Christians towards other religions is marked by sincere respect, profound sympathy and, when possible and appropriate, cordial collaboration. This does not mean forgetting that Jesus Christ is the one Mediator and Saviour of the human race. Nor does it mean lessening our missionary efforts, to which we are bound in obedience to the risen Lord’s command: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19). The attitude of respect and dialogue is instead the proper recognition of the “seeds of the Word” and the “groanings of the Spirit”. In this sense, far from opposing the proclamation of the Gospel, our attitude prepares it, as we await the times appointed by the Lord’s mercy. “By dialogue we let God be present in our midst; for as we open ourselves in dialogue to one another, we also open ourselves to God” (Address to Members of Other Religions, Madras, 5 Feb. 1986, n. 4; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 10 Feb. 1986, p. 14).
May the Spirit of truth and love, in view of the third millennium now close at hand, guide us on the paths of the proclamation of Jesus Christ and of the dialogue of peace and brotherhood with the followers of all religions!
GENERAL AUDIENCE
Wednesday 9 September 1998
1. In Nostra aetate, the Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religions, the Second Vatican Council teaches that “the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men” (Nostra aetate, n. 2).
Taking up the Council’s teaching from the first Encyclical Letter of my Pontificate, I have wished to recall the ancient doctrine formulated by the Fathers of the Church, which says that we must recognize “the seeds of the Word” present and active in the various religions (Ad gentes, n. 11; Lumen gentium, n. 17). This doctrine leads us to affirm that, though the routes taken may be different, “there is but a single goal to which is directed the deepest aspiration of the human spirit as expressed in its quest for God and also in its quest, through its tending towards God, for the full dimension of its humanity, or in other words, for the full meaning of human life” (Redemptor hominis, n. 11).
The “seeds of truth” present and active in the various religious traditions are a reflection of the unique Word of God, who “enlightens every man coming into world” (cf. Jn 1:9) and who became flesh in Christ Jesus (cf. Jn 1:14). They are together an “effect of the Spirit of truth operating outside the visible confines of the Mystical Body” and which “blows where it wills” (Jn 3:8; cf. Redemptor hominis, nn. 6, 12). Keeping this doctrine in mind, the celebration of the Jubilee of the Year 2000 “will provide a great opportunity, especially in view of the events of recent decades, for interreligious dialogue” (Tertio millennio adveniente, n. 53). Even now, during this pneumatological year, it is fitting to pause and consider in what sense and in what ways the Holy Spirit is present in humanity’s religious quest and in the various experiences and traditions that express it.
2. It must first be kept in mind that every quest of the human spirit for truth and goodness, and in the last analysis for God, is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The various religions arose precisely from this primordial human openness to God. At their origins we often find founders who, with the help of God’s Spirit, achieved a deeper religious experience. Handed on to others, this experience took form in the doctrines, rites and precepts of the various religions.
In every authentic religious experience, the most characteristic expression is prayer. Because of the human spirit’s constitutive openness to God’s action of urging it to self-transcendence, we can hold that “every authentic prayer is called forth by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every person” (Address to the Members of the Roman Curia, 22 Dec. 1986, n. 11; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 5 Jan. 1987, p. 7).
We experienced an eloquent manifestation of this truth at the World Day of Prayer for Peace on 27 October 1986 in Assisi, and on other similar occasions of great spiritual intensity.
3. The Holy Spirit is not only present in other religions through authentic expressions of prayer. “The Spirit’s presence and activity”, as I wrote in the Encyclical Letter Redemptoris missio, “affect not only individuals but also society and history, peoples, cultures and religions” (n. 28).
Normally, “it will be in the sincere practice of what is good in their own religious traditions and by following the dictates of their own conscience that the members of other religions respond positively to God’s invitation and receive salvation in Jesus Christ, even while they do not recognize or acknowledge him as their Saviour (cf. Ad gentes, nn. 3, 9, 11)” (Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue – Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, Instruction Dialogue and Proclamation, 19 May 1991, n. 29; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 1 July 1991, p. III).
Indeed, as the Second Vatican Council teaches, “since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of coming into contact, in a way known to God, with the paschal mystery” (Gaudium et spes, n. 22).
This possibility is achieved through sincere, inward adherence to the Truth, generous self-giving to one’s neighbour and the search for the Absolute inspired by the Spirit of God. A ray of the divine Wisdom is also shown through the fulfilment of the precepts and practices that conform to the moral law and to authentic religious sense. Precisely by virtue of the Spirit’s presence and action, the good elements found in the various religions mysteriously prepare hearts to receive the full revelation of God in Christ.
4. For the reasons mentioned here, the attitude of the Church and of individual Christians towards other religions is marked by sincere respect, profound sympathy and, when possible and appropriate, cordial collaboration. This does not mean forgetting that Jesus Christ is the one Mediator and Saviour of the human race. Nor does it mean lessening our missionary efforts, to which we are bound in obedience to the risen Lord’s command: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19). The attitude of respect and dialogue is instead the proper recognition of the “seeds of the Word” and the “groanings of the Spirit”. In this sense, far from opposing the proclamation of the Gospel, our attitude prepares it, as we await the times appointed by the Lord’s mercy. “By dialogue we let God be present in our midst; for as we open ourselves in dialogue to one another, we also open ourselves to God” (Address to Members of Other Religions, Madras, 5 Feb. 1986, n. 4; L’Osservatore Romano English edition, 10 Feb. 1986, p. 14).
May the Spirit of truth and love, in view of the third millennium now close at hand, guide us on the paths of the proclamation of Jesus Christ and of the dialogue of peace and brotherhood with the followers of all religions!
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Serenity Now
Member
No Catholic in a state a grace believes any of this as it is complete heresy. That would put Santanist on par with Christians.
It's worse than you think. Although by no means an exclusively Catholic problem, ignorance of even the most basic tenets of the faith (moral and theological) is at abysmal levels. I had a co-worker who openly identified as Catholic become shocked to learn that pre-marital sex and self-abuse are sins. He had no idea. Now granted that's an extreme example but you get the point. The Chruch has failed badly in the catechises of the laity these past decades.
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jaybird
Member
many Christians here in America will say that Christianity is the only true religion and any other is of the devil and 100 percent pure evil. they know this because here in the states we have giant mega million dollar church ministries with CC swipers in the lobby and ushers passing out sales catalogs. pastors that fly around in billion dollar jets. pastors that tell people in front of millions that what they need is a Holy Ghost enema right up their ****. and many of the Christian leaders are high ranking free masons as well.
and with all that Christians keep talking about how we can be a light to the world. guess i am the only one that thinks we might want to sort out our internal issues before we go about doing all that
and with all that Christians keep talking about how we can be a light to the world. guess i am the only one that thinks we might want to sort out our internal issues before we go about doing all that
I am not Catholic, but I believe this quote (post #6 above) is wonderfully worded and it reflects my own beliefs on base points as well. I think these thoughts are wise and wonderful.
Clear
δρακσιω
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Crypto2015
Active Member
The only path to salvation and to establishing a genuine relationship with God is Jesus Christ. Hence, all other faiths, even those containing certain elements of truth and beauty, are ultimately wrong and lead us to the eternal damnation of our souls. In this era in which the truth is considered too inconvenient to be told, some people may find my statement overly blunt and hence rude. However, it is for the sake of those who are seeking the truth that we must present Christ as he is: the only person under whose name we can attain forgiveness, redemption and salvation.
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jaybird
Member
what faiths are wrong? can you give an example. and which faith is correct?
Crypto2015
Active Member
Only faith in Jesus saves. Believing in anything other than Jesus (e. g., Krishna, Allah, Buddha, etc.) leads to hell.
It is presumptuous to assume anything regarding anyone's salvation (Christian or not), as a person's state before God is something only God is privy to. There is only one path to God, and anyone who culpably rejects it cannot be saved. However it cannot be assumed that a failure to explicitly assent to Christianity is the same thing as a culpable rejection of it. It can be said that those who sincerely seek the truth and follow the precepts of the moral law (as far as it is revealed to them) have already in some way accepted Christ (albeit unknowingly) and thus there is hope for their salvation.
Of course, once the Christian revelation has be made clear to someone, then it must be accepted for salvation.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
This is just false. In fact, it is made clear that salvation is not attained by works.
Crypto2015
Active Member
What I wrote is simply the truth. Jesus said: "I am the truth, the way, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6). "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). Perhaps what you say is right, but there is no scriptural support for it and I tend to believe that it is not right. Otherwise, there would be no point in preaching the Gospel, since the people that have no knowledge of the Gospel are being saved anyway.
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I never implied that anyone saves themselves. I affirm that Christ is necessary for salvation, but also that Christ isn't confined only to those who are explicitly Christian necessarily. Those who refuse Christ cannot be saved, no matter how moral otherwise, but not everyone who has yet to accept Christ is in fact guilty of that rejection. (Not culpably anyway). For there are many who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel and it is not your place to presume their damnation. It's not even your place to presume your own salvation.
Do you believe that the circumstances that led you to be Christian are of your own doing? What of those in the Islamic world with no access to the Christian message? Sin damns us, (and refusing Christ and His Chruch is a sin) but we sin by volition, not by virtue of circumstance.
Point out where I state anything otherwise.
That I do not assume the damnation of all non-Christians as ipso facto, does not at all imply that those innocent of having directly rejected the Gospel are ipso facto saved either. (That of course, leads the absurdity that you correctly point out). No one unrepentant of mortal sin will see salvation, Christian or not.
What I am saying is that the failure to find visible Chruch, the failure to be an explicit Christian, does not always and necessarily imply the guilt of mortal sin. That will be for God to judge, not you or I.
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Crypto2015
Active Member
Are you saying that people can be saved without EVER accepting Jesus' sacrifice or, on the contrary, do you propose that the Gospel is preached to them once they have already died? The first possibility would render Jesus' sacrifice completely useless. The second possibility would render the great commission (preaching to the nations) pointless. Hence, it seems to me that you are wrong on this topic.
Also, all men have undoubtedly committed mortal sin. Claiming that this is not so would be equivalent to calling God a liar, since God has said: "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).
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The key word here is acceptance. Acceptance isn't as black and white as as your strand of thinking whats to insist upon. The Catholic teaching is a little more nuanced, because it acknowledges the myriad of human circumstances which make the world so complex.
On the surface, baptism and a state of grace are required for salvation. To be in a state of grace is to be regenerated by baptism and free from unrepentant mortal sin. Anyone who though their own volition refuses either regeneration and or repentance cannot be saved. In effect you must accept the Christian revelation. However, (and this is vital to understanding my position) sin is always an act of the will. You sin, when you make the decision to do what you know to be wrong. To choose to reject Christ will result in perdition.
The problem is that not all of those who are non-Christian, are non-Christian because they have chosen to reject the Gospel for something else. A Muslim in an Islamic country has inherited his creed from his circumstances as much as I inherited mine and you yours. He truly, and in sincerity pursues the will of God. Although misled, he cannot in reason be said to be guilty of "choosing" non-Christian convictions. (Unless you really want to commit to the idea that being raised in circumstances which make Christian belief extremely unlikely is itself a sin). I am not exempting the Muslim, Jew or Hindu from the Gospel. One way or the other they all must accept it, but this acceptance may be in such a way that it is known only to God; that because the obstacles to an explicit Christianity were circumstantially insurmountable they are not fully culpable for rejecting the Gospel. (Although they may well still be guilty of any other numerous sins and thus damned). The possibility for the salvation of said non-Christians, does not imply any certainty of it whatsoever.
No, because the Gospel is the means in which God designs to bring all men to salvation. And because of that, it must be preached to all. But the fact is that despite this obligation, it is not clearly available to all. God is just, and will not blame those who hold no blame for this fact lest you claim God to be arbitrary. (Which is reprehensible for anyone but the most committed Calvinist).
Hence why we have the sacrament of penance. All of us sin, and sometimes we sin so grievously that we risk our salvation. Mortal sin is always a wilful act, (this is really, really key to my whole position). But it can always be repented from. Either though confession or through perfect contrition. Again I'm saying that dying as a non-Christian doesn't always imply mortal (wilful) sin. Although for those who have had the Christian message fairly presented to them, it is.
Many "Christian" religions are not following Jesus Christ's teachings, IMO. I believe the Bible is the standard by which to measure any religion. And the Bible clearly teaches there is only one true God, and what his will and purposes are for us. I believe that any religion claiming to be the truth should be able to present evidence for their claim. If they cannot, they cannot be the true religion.