Zen & Other Religious Practices

[EverChanging]

My worldview and morals are close to Buddhism.

I am in a transitional stage. I have cultivated prayer and meditation consistently for some years now. I have written devotions I perform almost always in solitude. These devotions are still taking shape slowly. They are informed by my Christian background and involve only Christian entities or entities I have met in prayer. Though I have experimented, I am not interested in introducing Buddhist deities as this is foreign to me and I already practice devotions familiar to me. My religious label here is not accurate but I will not change it as I have no good labels.

My practice is enriching, but I am not an island unto myself and feel the discipline and guidance of Buddhism could only help my practice and link me to tried and true tradition. If I converted to Buddhism, like Zen, would I have to abandon my rather unusual devotions? (By the way these practices do not contradict Buddhist practices or morals that I know of - they are mainly devotional in character.) Also, can a person receive instruction in meditation before conversion to Zen?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Abandon all beliefs ye who enter the gateless gate.

 

[Secret Chief]

Hi Ever.

Anyone can make use of meditation, of any or no faith. It is a tool for the mind. Conversion, whatever that may mean is not required!

Zen meditation does not involve deities.

A monk would be happy to instruct and answer questions, if you are able to get to a temple.

 

[Secret Chief]

Failing that, a good book!

 

[Twilight Hue]

Zazen is a good technique In Zen involving body and mind undifferciented.

[youtube]csyCrcpDs58[/youtube]
Approaching Zazen (seated meditation) - YouTube

There are no prerequisites or requirements.

 

[crossfire]

My worldview and morals are close to Buddhism.

I am in a transitional stage. I have cultivated prayer and meditation consistently for some years now. I have written devotions I perform almost always in solitude. These devotions are still taking shape slowly. They are informed by my Christian background and involve only Christian entities or entities I have met in prayer. Though I have experimented, I am not interested in introducing Buddhist deities as this is foreign to me and I already practice devotions familiar to me. My religious label here is not accurate but I will not change it as I have no good labels.

My practice is enriching, but I am not an island unto myself and feel the discipline and guidance of Buddhism could only help my practice and link me to tried and true tradition. If I converted to Buddhism, like Zen, would I have to abandon my rather unusual devotions? (By the way these practices do not contradict Buddhist practices or morals that I know of - they are mainly devotional in character.) Also, can a person receive instruction in meditation before conversion to Zen?

Hi EverChanging. Your username conveys the Buddhist idea of impermanence.

One way you can practice Zen within your religious paradigm is through your contemplation of the Christian trinity. This IS the Christian koan. By contemplating the trinity, you are practicing Zen.

 

[Secret Chief]

The trinity is the Christian koan.

Only you crossfire, only you. :yes:

 

[crossfire]

I would also highly recommend Zenmaster Thich Nhat Hanh's book, Living Buddha, Living Christ. In this book, he equates being filled with mindfulness as being filled with the Holy Spirit. It took me a long time to understand this, but now that I do understand, I wholeheartedly agree with him. :yes:

 

[Twilight Hue]

This IS the Christian koan. By contemplating the trinity, you are practicing Zen.

Well golly gee. :0)

 

[Jainarayan]

I would also highly recommend Zenmaster Thich Nhat Hanh's book, Living Buddha, Living Christ. In this book, he equates being filled with mindfulness as being filled with the Holy Spirit. It took me a long time to understand this, but now that I do understand, I wholeheartedly agree with him. :yes:

Resurrected thread is resurrected.

I finished Living Buddha, Living Christ recently and must read it again until this mindfulness business sinks in. It's really an easy concept, it's just ... here it comes... are you ready... ?

Hard to keep in mind.

:run:

Mindfulness and "interbeing", a word he coined, runs as a common thread all through Christianity, bhakti Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism; at least in my opinion and p.o.v.

 

[crossfire]

Resurrected thread is resurrected.

I finished Living Buddha, Living Christ recently and must read it again until this mindfulness business sinks in. It's really an easy concept, it's just ... here it comes... are you ready... ?

Hard to keep in mind.

:run:

Mindfulness and "interbeing", a word he coined, runs as a common thread all through Christianity, bhakti Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism; at least in my opinion and p.o.v.

Question: In bhakti, when you offer food or drink to deity, do you not then mindfully eat the food, sharing the experience with deity? (Or am I mistaken about this?) Isn't that another (rather direct) way of looking at being filled with mindfulness as equivalent to being filled with holy spirit?

 

[Jainarayan]

Ideally, yes. After the food has been offered to the deity, it's blessed by the deity. You are then partaking of the deity, as I see it. There will be other answers I'm sure, one being that you are eating God's leftovers. I find that silluy in the extreme. Moreover, there are prayers to say over the food you are about to eat, both offering the food, and thanking the deity or deities for it. Considering it this way, it's not unlike Holy Communion. I think this is one reason why Thay had no problem with sharing communion with Catholics, though I could be wrong.

 

[crossfire]

Ideally, yes. After the food has been offered to the deity, it's blessed by the deity. You are then partaking of the deity, as I see it. There will be other answers I'm sure, one being that you are eating God's leftovers. I find that silluy in the extreme. Moreover, there are prayers to say over the food you are about to eat, both offering the food, and thanking the deity or deities for it. Considering it this way, it's not unlike Holy Communion. I think this is one reason why Thay had no problem with sharing communion with Catholics, though I could be wrong.

One of these days, hopefully, I'll understand ritual.

Doesn't the word communion mean sharing, fellowship, rapport?
Didn't Jesus say "keep doing this in remembrance* of me?"

*remembrance from Greek word meaning:
1) to call to remembrance, to remind, to admonish

2) to remember, to remember and weigh well and consider​

It sounds pretty mindful to me.

 

[Jainarayan]

One of these days, hopefully, I'll understand ritual.

Heh heh, you want to understand ritual, I'm trying to purge it.

Doesn't the word communion mean sharing, fellowship, rapport?
Didn't Jesus say "keep doing this in remembrance* of me?"

*remembrance from Greek word meaning:
1) to call to remembrance, to remind, to admonish

2) to remember, to remember and weigh well and consider​

It sounds pretty mindful to me.

Yes, it's fellowship whether on this plane of existence with other humans or with devas, deities, bodhisattvas, ancestors, and so on. We are all one, after all. I have a small photo of my parents on my altar. I put it there recently. Although I had a rocky relationship with my parents, they were after all, my parents and gave me life. So I try to be mindful of our "oneness".

 

[crossfire]

Ideally, yes. After the food has been offered to the deity, it's blessed by the deity. You are then partaking of the deity, as I see it. There will be other answers I'm sure, one being that you are eating God's leftovers. I find that silluy in the extreme. Moreover, there are prayers to say over the food you are about to eat, both offering the food, and thanking the deity or deities for it. Considering it this way, it's not unlike Holy Communion. I think this is one reason why Thay had no problem with sharing communion with Catholics, though I could be wrong.

I guess I've got the whole idea wrong then. I was thinking it was through the mindful sharing of the food with deity that you were "partaking" of the deity. You are offering to share your eating experience with deity, so you would want to be as mindful as possible about it--sharing the smell of the food with deity, sharing the texture and taste of the food with deity, thereby both showing appreciation of the food and appreciation of deity. {Now I'm confused.}

 

[Jainarayan]

You are offering to share your eating experience with deity, so you would want to be as mindful as possible about it--sharing the smell of the food with deity, sharing the texture and taste of the food with deity, thereby both showing appreciation of the food and appreciation of deity. {Now I'm confused.}

I may be at fault for saying it wrong. The idea is to not eat for oneself and be selfish. For Vaishnavas it's from the Bhagavad Gita:

"The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." 3.13

"...all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me." 9.27

 

[crossfire]

I may be at fault for saying it wrong. The idea is to not eat for oneself and be selfish. For Vaishnavas it's from the Bhagavad Gita:

"The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sins because they eat food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." 3.13

"...all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me." 9.27

Thanks. I'll think I'll go mindfully relish my confusion now.

 

[Jainarayan]

The problem is that there are so many conflicting ideas. Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism are rife with them. As Buffalo Springfield said "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong", which is the way it is. Articles I've read about setting up a Buddhist or Taoist altar scream that the deities must be consecrated, other articles and videos make no mention, for example. That's why I hold with that quote from the Buddha:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and
is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

That would be my signature if there were enough room.

 

[crossfire]

The problem is that there are so many conflicting ideas.

Hence, the confusion.

Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism are rife with them. As Buffalo Springfield said "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong", which is the way it is. Articles I've read about setting up a Buddhist or Taoist altar scream that the deities must be consecrated, other articles and videos make no mention, for example.

I'm still trying to figure out why you need an altar if deity already knows what's in your heart.

That's why I hold with that quote from the Buddha:

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and
is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

That would be my signature if there were enough room.

Now this I understand!

 

[Jainarayan]

I'm still trying to figure out why you need an altar if deity already knows what's in your heart.

A personal meditative space where one can feel a privacy with the deities. Personally I tend to agree with you. It's one of the reasons I don't pray. The deities know what I need. Paramahansa Yogananda wrote that like a child whose parent knows what the child needs, the child still asks, and so should we ask of God or whatever deity. But I don't necessarily agree with that. If someone is dying, I think it's pointless to pray that they recover. To pray thus is going against the Tao, if one is "Taoish". It's not accepting the way of things, and resisting.