Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[Jean Valjean]

I am going to address this one.

"For him who believes all things are possible"

You can become football player.
You can play guitar
You can write, speak and listen
If you believe, you can do gold.
If you believe you can do all those things you don't do when you are sitting before the computer.

You can...

...if you believe

 

[LuisDantas]

Then explain why most people in the modern era believe in God? Are most Westerners uneducated, superstitious? Think carefully, your answer may condemn you as you condemn your own generation.

Actually, I stand unconvinced that most educated people believe in God as such.

Many will simply lack the motivation to think much about the matter, or to voice doubts in social environments that do not welcome such questioning.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

1. I suggest you do research on the non-vestigial facts regarding tonsils, wisdom teeth, etc.

2. Then you can start to unravel the vestigial lies you learn in secular education against original creation.

3. Then some AMAZING things will begin to happen.

I suppose that is when I realize that there is a world wide conspiracy throughout the sciences to convince the world that evolution is true, right?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Of course, in America, where many are college educated, and where there exists freedom of worship, not only are over 90% of people theists, over 50% believe in creation, not evolution.

You made up your numbers, didn't you?

Why would a rational skeptic care what people who decide what is true based on faith have chosen to believe?

How come all those hours of secular education haven't convinced us?

You're a faith based thinker. We have only reason applied to evidence to offer. If that's not how you decide what is true, then the conversation is over. What is there to discuss? One cannot convince a person with a stake in not being convinced of anything.

Prove you exist, and that my solipsism is wrong, and then I'll have a valid reason to spend time on proof for God.

No you won't. That's just another deflection from a question you are avoiding.

Nobody thinks you have proof or even good evidence for any god, let alone a specific one. The question of whether you can support your god belief is rhetorical. No answer is needed, Your continual deflection is answer enough.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then explain why most people in the modern era believe in God?

They are afraid to let go of their crutch. It's also been indoctrinated into us since before anyone knows. But that doesn't make it real. It doesn't mean its accurate.

Are most Westerners uneducated, superstitious?

Most of them are superstitious. From ghosts and curses, tarot cards and astrology, palm and tea leaf readings, Creationism and divinely ordained hierarchy, there are a lot of superstitious people out there.

Think carefully, your answer may condemn you as you condemn your own generation.

My own generation? We're overall a mixed bunch. If my answer condemns them, someone has some serious issues because it would even condemn the Christians, which make up the largest part of "my generation."

 

[Truly Enlightened]

It is best that all faith-base believers not make truth claims, and then venture off into the hallowed grounds of science, reason, critical thinking, and objectivity. If you choose to do so, you will subject your belief system to the same scrutiny as any other evidence-based truth claim. Science is not interested in what the consensus of beliefs are. Science is interested only in what the consensus of the evidence is. Since you can't support your truth claims(other than by faith), please leave our children alone. Stop shipping them off to camps and schools to be indoctrinated with adult fantasy-based religious dogma. Especially, since it only gives old men the illusion of power, wealth, purpose, and importance, and zero relevance to the children. Please stop the insidious encroachment into our sciences, our government, and our lives. You are no different than the medieval religious zealots, trying to marginalize anyone that did not belong to their exclusive club.

We were all born into this world with the ability to think independently based on our observations, and our inductive/deductive reasoning. So, why change now? It is best that believers not venture outside of the safety of the choir, and other like minds. This will avoid them accepting their burden of proof, or understanding what is meant in science by degrees of certainty. This will also avoid them retreating into the logical fallacy of unfalsifiability, and claim their belief valid by default. Just simply state that, "I have faith in my belief no matter what anyone says", and keep it to yourself. This is your Constitutional right, so exercise it. Don

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Where did I claim faith is my proof? I asked God for empirical, trustworthy evidence. He responded, so AFTER I responded in faith, "trusting" Him for salvation.

Great. Show us this empirical proof?

 

[ChristineM]

Prove you exist, and that my solipsism is wrong, and then I'll have a valid reason to spend time on proof for God.

Or we can just jump to the chase now:

1. At some point, you will admit "I know I exist, even if you disbelieve me, because it is self-evident to me that I exist/think therefore am."

2. I will then say, "God is self-existent to me," which Christians call, "a personal testimony".

3. You will then claim I lack empirical evidence for God, and I will say either "no, there's evidence but you're in denial," so instead, I will then say:

4. "You lack empirical evidence that you exist."

5. Your response, even though you were not an eyewitness to the events of your birth, will include documents regarding your existence.

6. I will then respond, "Then why you do you disbelieve the Bible documents," then remember that you merely have an anti-supernatural bias, so instead I will say:

7. "Prove those documents exist, that is, prove reality exists."

8. You will then respond, "no one can prove reality exists, but practically, we have to deal with this life," to which I will respond:

9. Then it would behoove you to prepare for the reality of the judgment and the world that is coming . . . for yourself, thoughtfully.

1. I know i exist because i can be weighed, measured and tested.

2. Can you weigh, measure and test your self existent god?

3. Please provide the evidence you claim.

4. See 1

5. See 1

6. Please provide evidence for the claims in the bible.

7. See 1

8. Physicists Prove That Reality Is Not — Repeat, Not — a Computer Simulation

And Reality Doesn’t Exist Until We Measure It, Quantum Experiment Confirms see 1

9. What?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I have. They are still vestigial. You do not appear to understand what "vestigial" means.



There are none that I am aware of. Do you have a valid source that supports your claims?



Since you do not seem to be able to support your claims I have doubts about this last one.

Tell your dentist, when you have non-impacted wisdom teeth, for example, that you just "want them out", because they don't help you to chew, removing them won't affect your jaw alignment or orthodonture, won't affect your speaking voice, and because you love self-mutilating yourself with completely unneeded elective surgery . . .

How come appendix came off this famous "human vestigial" list?

How come we don't need body hair any more? How come in most latitudes, humans die after one night without clothing?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You made up your numbers, didn't you?

Why would a rational skeptic care what people who decide what is true based on faith have chosen to believe?



You're a faith based thinker. We have only reason applied to evidence to offer. If that's not how you decide what is true, then the conversation is over. What is there to discuss? One cannot convince a person with a stake in not being convinced of anything.



No you won't. That's just another deflection from a question you are avoiding.

Nobody thinks you have proof or even good evidence for any god, let alone a specific one. The question of whether you can support your god belief is rhetorical. No answer is needed, Your continual deflection is answer enough.

Making up numbers? But I witness the gospel of Jesus Christ to up to hundreds or thousands of persons a year. Only a very few of the persons I encounter are atheists or even agnostics. I think many thousands of responses is statistically significant.

Actually, I wouldn't hesitate to tell you that a part (not all) of my evidence for God is that God's presence is self-evident in my life and mind. Since you will eventually admit (if you bothered to discuss it, you're instead ducking it) that you believe you exist because your existence is self-evident to you . . . check, possibly checkmate.

 

[ChristineM]

Tell your dentist, when you have non-impacted wisdom teeth, for example, that you just "want them out", because they don't help you to chew, removing them won't affect your jaw alignment or orthodonture, won't affect your speaking voice, and because you love self-mutilating yourself with completely unneeded elective surgery . . .

How come appendix came off this famous "human vestigial" list?

How come we don't need body hair any more? How come in most latitudes, humans die after one night without clothing?

Because research showed the use of the appendix.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-function-of-the-human-appendix-did-it-once-have-a-purpose-that-has-since-been-lost/

The invention of fire and use of clothing

​

 

[BilliardsBall]

They are afraid to let go of their crutch. It's also been indoctrinated into us since before anyone knows. But that doesn't make it real. It doesn't mean its accurate.

Most of them are superstitious. From ghosts and curses, tarot cards and astrology, palm and tea leaf readings, Creationism and divinely ordained hierarchy, there are a lot of superstitious people out there.

My own generation? We're overall a mixed bunch. If my answer condemns them, someone has some serious issues because it would even condemn the Christians, which make up the largest part of "my generation."

As long as you understand that your "they" includes almost everyone breathing, you go right ahead and let us inmates run the asylum for you.

 

[Revoltingest]

As long as you understand that your "they" includes almost everyone breathing, you go right ahead and let us inmates run the asylum for you.

Speaking of believers being in charge, I've a request.
Could you guys do a better job running the country?
And we'd like better choices in the next election.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I suppose that is when I realize that there is a world wide conspiracy throughout the sciences to convince the world that evolution is true, right?

Wait just a sec! I think you have a double standard here. Is there a worldwide conspiracy that makes most people believe in God or is it that most people are confused regarding the facts?

You've simply made an assertion in your mind that scientists are less prone to data conclusion errors than others. The truth is, if there is no God, you would be forced to conclude that the overwhelming majority of people (which includes the subset of say, biology scientists) are prone to some grave errors...

Checkmate.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Actually, I wouldn't hesitate to tell you that a part (not all) of my evidence for God is that God's presence is self-evident in my life and mind. Since you will eventually admit (if you bothered to discuss it, you're instead ducking it) that you believe you exist because your existence is self-evident to you . . . check, possibly checkmate.

Are you serious?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Actually, I stand unconvinced that most educated people believe in God as such.

Many will simply lack the motivation to think much about the matter, or to voice doubts in social environments that do not welcome such questioning.

That must be true of atheists also, since most of the ones I know are nice people and not trolls who prey on everything I say at religious forums...

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Wait just a sec! I think you have a double standard here. Is there a worldwide conspiracy that makes most people believe in God or is it that most people are confused regarding the facts?

You've simply made an assertion in your mind that scientists are less prone to data conclusion errors than others. The truth is, if there is no God, you would be forced to conclude that the overwhelming majority of people (which includes the subset of say, biology scientists) are prone to some grave errors...

Checkmate.

I've yet to encounter a single argument you've made which doesn't involve making ridiculous assumptions about what other people believe or think.

And, for your information, almost 50% of scientists are atheists compared to 5% of the general population, meaning that a scientist is ten times more likely to be an atheist and almost half as likely to be a theist.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Your use of educated is far too generalized to the point that it is creates a useless point. Being educated in Y does not make one educated in X. If people are judging atheists as delusional without any diagnosis in person they are unethical. If they are doing it outside their expertise their views are useless as well as they are uninformed.

I didn't say atheists are delusional, but to be an atheist, one must accept as axiomatic that the overwhelming majority of persons are delusional and in denial, which doesn't line up with truth.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You are the one who said there were good reasons and evidence for God. If you're a hard solipsist, this cannot possibly be true.


So you're not content with just putting words in other people's mouths, you're inventing entire dialogues that bear almost no resemblance to any conversation we've had thus far based on pure nonsense.

I'll ask you again: debate the points being made.

I'm not a solipsist, after all, it leads to atheism.

I've stepped through that entire dialogue on this forum and others in real time with real people, and I hereby note that you ducked each point I made.

That much ducking = denial. Checkmate.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The question of free will is a toughie.
How is it defined?
How can it be tested?
All I can say with any confidence is that it feels like I have free will.
But is this feeling predetermined?
I see an unanswerable question which doesn't affect me.

I no more chose atheism than I chose to disbelieve in fairies, sprites,
leprechauns, wraiths, angels, ghosts, genies, Satan & Sasquatch.
To believe in things unevidenced has simply never been an option.

If what you say is true, than simply ask God for testable, verifiable, falsifiable, empirical evidence--to come to you soon--and watch him go! That is, if what you say is heartfelt, and it sure seems like it is, go for it!

I would NEVER ask ANYONE to "just trust Jesus" without EVIDENCE.