Zero Probability of Evolution. Atheism wrong?

[ArtieE]

There are multiple such:

My conscience would always assault me about the justified rape we discussed, because rape is always wrong.

It is always wrong to kill a lover's spouse to covet the lover, always. You have a remarkable ability to tell me I can kill my lover's wife to save the world, since you recognize how we can ADD to an absolute moral to make 1+2= moral 3, while misunderstanding that 2 always equals 2 regardless.

What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?

 

[tayla]

The likelihood that God did not participate in the creation of the universe is negligible (and likely zero). Why be an Atheist?

I want to believe in something like intelligent design but am having a hard time imagining exactly how God would intervene to direct evolution. Is God the ultimate micro-manager? Does each electron check in with God to see what it should do before the quantum mechanics wavefunction collapse?

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

If Jesus Christ exists, it is absolutely moral to obey His commands, including doing our best to honor our parents despite their shortcomings. Honor could include anything from a birthday card to an intervention or even calling the authorities against a drug-abusing parent.

Blind obedience is behind some the worst human atrocities we know of. When you ignore your own moral compass in blind obedience to someone's command, really bad things can happen.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Blind obedience is behind some the worst human atrocities we know of. When you ignore your own moral compass in blind obedience to someone's command, really bad things can happen.

Stick to science only, please, since you didn't read what I wrote: "If Jesus Christ exists, it is absolutely moral to obey His commands, including doing our best to honor our parents despite their shortcomings. Honor could include anything from a birthday card to an intervention or even calling the authorities against a drug-abusing parent."

Blind obedience is not choosy enough between birthday cards to police interventions. Blind obedience is not willful respect, love and honor.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I wonder if you are just failing to recognize the concept of a lesser of two evils.

No remarkable ability required to see it. Try!

I think you're missing the point, but not willfully, so let me rephrase.

Rape is always evil. But you've said there could be good to come out of a rape, making the rape not evil. If rape is 2 and saving lives is 3, then 2+3=5 as a positive outcome, but the 2 was still input, lifelong, we would regret the rape because rape is always wrong, not sometimes wrong.

But the fact that you can write, "a lesser of two evils" shows that God put in you the ability to discern good and evil, and therefore, we may both be judged for decisions made with or against conscience.

The fact that you can measure evil against evil, and choose the lesser one, shows you are not an evolutionary animal living by instinct alone but have a creative mind. Each argument you make strengthens the argument for a moral creator God.

 

[Audie]

Stick to science only, please, since you didn't read what I wrote: "If Jesus Christ exists, it is absolutely moral to obey His commands, including doing our best to honor our parents despite their shortcomings. Honor could include anything from a birthday card to an intervention or even calling the authorities against a drug-abusing parent."

Blind obedience is not choosy enough between birthday cards to police interventions. Blind obedience is not willful respect, love and honor.

Would you blindly obey this? Or with eyes wide open.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***.

NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who "completely destroyed them and their towns."

NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." The virgins were presumably raped. (NOTE: How could the soldiers know which women were virgins?)

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[BilliardsBall]

What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?

Is it not still doing a wrong act hoping for a right outcome? Does all the pain for the rape victim vanish because she or he gave their body for the cause?

 

[Audie]

I think you're missing the point, but not willfully, so let me rephrase.

Rape is always evil. But you've said there could be good to come out of a rape, making the rape not evil. If rape is 2 and saving lives is 3, then 2+3=5 as a positive outcome, but the 2 was still input, lifelong, we would regret the rape because rape is always wrong, not sometimes wrong.

But the fact that you can write, "a lesser of two evils" shows that God put in you the ability to discern good and evil, and therefore, we may both be judged for decisions made with or against conscience.

The fact that you can measure evil against evil, and choose the lesser one, shows you are not an evolutionary animal living by instinct alone but have a creative mind. Each argument you make strengthens the argument for a moral creator God.

Of course rape is a bad thing, except when "god" orders it.

A bad thing and a moral absolute are not the same thing.

Moral absolutes dont have exceptions.

Of course people do not live by instinct alone, but then, neither do dogs.
I guess if your position is that everything points to a "moral god" no
matter what, then, to you it does.

Much like my experience walking across campus with a Christian girl who
found a nice autumn leaf. Oh look she says, see, god made t his to
represent the trinity.

She didnt notice the leaf had three main, and two smaller parts.

"So why does it have five parts?" I asked her.

"Oh so it does, that means god made it to represent....."

If you are not that girl, you do at least think the same.

 

[ArtieE]

The fact that you can measure evil against evil, and choose the lesser one, shows you are not an evolutionary animal living by instinct alone but have a creative mind.

We just evolved to do as little harm to each other as possible since that behavior was more beneficial to the well-being and survival of the society than going around harming each other as much as possible.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Stick to science only, please, since you didn't read what I wrote: "If Jesus Christ exists, it is absolutely moral to obey His commands, including doing our best to honor our parents despite their shortcomings. Honor could include anything from a birthday card to an intervention or even calling the authorities against a drug-abusing parent."

Blind obedience is not choosy enough between birthday cards to police interventions. Blind obedience is not willful respect, love and honor.

Blind obedience is this: " it is absolutely moral to obey His commands"

 

[ArtieE]

Is it not still doing a wrong act hoping for a right outcome? Does all the pain for the rape victim vanish because she or he gave their body for the cause?

What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?

 

[Audie]

Is it not still doing a wrong act hoping for a right outcome? Does all the pain for the rape victim vanish because she or he gave their body for the cause?

Dont change the deal. It is not "hoping" for the right outcome.

And seriously, a strawman? "Does all the pain.......?"

Perhaps you should define for us what you even mean
when you say "moral" and, "absolute"

Define "moral absolute" for us.

 

[Audie]

Blind obedience is this: " it is absolutely moral to obey His commands"

Sure. Sack and burn t he city, kill everyone but the virgins, and carry them off for slavery.

Hey, that guy said that god told him it is ok!

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Sure. Sack and burn t he city, kill everyone but the virgins, and carry them off for slavery.

Hey, that guy said that god told him it is ok!

"I was just following orders".

 

[Audie]

"I was just following orders".

"Absolutely"!

 

[BilliardsBall]

We just evolved to do as little harm to each other as possible since that behavior was more beneficial to the well-being and survival of the society than going around harming each other as much as possible.

Are you saying evolutiondidit? How does storytelling help confirm men aren't more than other animals?

 

[BilliardsBall]

What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?

My conscience, same as yours, would still ache, because there are moral absolutes.

 

[ArtieE]

My conscience, same as yours, would still ache, because there are moral absolutes.

"What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?" So moral people should do the moral thing and let an assailant simply harm or kill their families instead or harming or killing him? That would be the moral thing to do?

 

[Audie]

My conscience, same as yours, would still ache, because there are moral absolutes.

You have come up with specific scenarios, but you have not come up
wit h any general rule for any moral absolute.

You just say they exist, but have no example.

"Random murder for fun of little child" That surely is absolutely morally wrong.

Where is the general rule? "killing any child for any reason is absolutely wrong"?

That wont work

No way you have gotten out of moral relativism.

 

[Audie]

"What about your conscience if you let somebody harm or kill your family when you could have prevented it by hurting or killing the assailant?" So moral people should do the moral thing and let an assailant simply harm or kill their families instead or harming or killing him? That would be the moral thing to do?

Conscience is no reliable indicator of absolutes!