-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Zoroastrian sects
- Thread starter hindupridemn
- Start date
El_Majusi
Member
High five brother!
@Marco: cremation is one of the worst sins. I wonder how a Zoroastrian who has let family members burn can still be in peace with his/her conscience.
I don't share your opinion on yazatas, dear Shahz, but you defend our faith very well.
El_Majusi
Member
The Followers of Zarathushtra who completed the Religion through Godly ways let and made the cult of Yazatas flourish because yazatas (the Blessed, the Loving) do exist.
What is the purpose and way of every science? It is to make the complex simply understood. How? By dividing the subject it studies in many parts, so it is easier to understand each separately.
We do the same with Ahura Mazda; diving It in many parts, called Yazatas, to better understand It. But to love It the best, and also to improve our adoration. It is a special kind of Monism.
Also, I would like to precise that, even if many parts of the faith are not found in the Gathas, they have they origin in the Gathas: interpretation, etc. The Gathas are so profound and so wise that they give way to further wisdom and improvement of the world.
Blessings to all of you.
What is the purpose and way of every science? It is to make the complex simply understood. How? By dividing the subject it studies in many parts, so it is easier to understand each separately.
We do the same with Ahura Mazda; diving It in many parts, called Yazatas, to better understand It. But to love It the best, and also to improve our adoration. It is a special kind of Monism.
Also, I would like to precise that, even if many parts of the faith are not found in the Gathas, they have they origin in the Gathas: interpretation, etc. The Gathas are so profound and so wise that they give way to further wisdom and improvement of the world.
Blessings to all of you.
El_Majusi
Member
No, all religions aren't Mazda worshipping. There are Mazda worshipping and Daeva (Devil) worshipping religions, and Zarathushtra in the Gathas tells us to beware of the second, and insists on us making a strong difference between both. What is interesting is that, among Daeva worshipping cults launched by false prophets (as for us, all prophets beyond Zarathushtra are false, but that doesn't mean all religions are false), there are truth-seeking people in all places of the world, and their hearts know God.
For us it is very clear that there has been no other prophet, nor will there be any other.
Look at this quotation from an ancient Zoroastrian book:
"The creator Ahura Mazda spoke to Zarathushtra thus: 'O Zarathushtra! I have created no one better than you in the world, and I shall likewise not create one better after you are gone. You are my chosen one, and I have made this world apparent on account of you. And all these people and monarchs whom I have created have always maintained the hope that I should create you in their days, so that they should accept the religion, and their souls should attain to the supreme heaven."
Although they have been and will be great men through times, no one has acquired and none will acquire the same spiritual importance as Ashu Zarathushtra, the Ashavan, Master of Asha.
MD
qualiaphile
Honestly, I don't know. My guess would be that the fire attached to the temple is more sacred and consecrated and has gone through purification rituals, rather than the fire attached to the cremation, but I really don't know.
Personally fire to me symbolizes Ahura Mazda, it is formless, powerful, exudes warmth and impossible to grasp. And although I don't conciously see it as having any outright divinity, i'm sure on some subconcious level I do mostly due to my upbringing.
Marco19
Researcher
Thanks Majusi & shahz,
i have a question about the spirit (or soul ... howerver you call it), from Zoroastrian POV it remains in the body for three days.
my question is why three days? what it does in a dead body? how the parting occurs if you make a spot light on the rituals.
i have a question about the spirit (or soul ... howerver you call it), from Zoroastrian POV it remains in the body for three days.
my question is why three days? what it does in a dead body? how the parting occurs if you make a spot light on the rituals.
El_Majusi
Member
Dear Marco,
this question is quite interesting. What Christian thinkers consider as being the soul is for us two distinct elements: the daena (the Conscience, a word which in later Avestan means religion, and has given the word "dēn" in Pahlavi, and "dīn" in modern Persian) and the urvan. The difference between the two is showed by many parts of the Gathas (ex. 31:20). While daena is dependent and created for each man, separately (31:11), the urvan contains the fravashi, God's own self distributed in the Creation. The fravashi obeys the laws of God only, and is pure, there is the same godly fravashi for every individual of the world.
To fully understand the story as told in many Zoroastrian books, the Avesta to begin with, one must acquaint one's self with Zoroastrian symbolism, a longer and very interesting subject. We have yet to consider the story of the death soul's journey as a most symbolic one, while being all true.
At every human death, stands the urvan with the fravashi by the head (a symbol of man's own decisions). If the good deeds, words and thoughts, did indeed exceed the evil ones, the fravashi sings the Ushtavaiti gatha, that is, the most joyous part of Revelation. If it is the obverse, it sings the Yasna 46, the saddest (at least, in appearance) of the Gathas. Then the urvan goes to the Bridge of Passage, and meets there either a beautiful maiden, or an ugly one. It is the daena in fact; the actions of man, which are that maiden. This is said about it:
"And his own deeds of a virtuous kind come to meet him in the form of a maiden, (126) who is handsomer and better than every maiden in the world. 127. 'And the righteous soul speaks (128) thus: "Who mayst thou be, that a maiden who is handsomer and better than thee was never seen by me in the worldly existence?"
129. 'In reply that maiden form responds (130) thus: "I am no maiden, but I am thy virtuous deeds, thou youth who art well-thinking, well-speaking, well-doing, and of good religion! 131. For when thou sawest in the world him who performed demon-worship, then thou hast sat down, and thy performance was the worship of the sacred beings. 132. And when it was seen by thee that there was any one who caused oppression and plunder, and distressed or scorned a good person, and acquired wealth by crime, then thou keptest back from the creatures their own risk of oppression and plunder; (133) the good person was also thought of by thee, and lodging and entertainment provided; and alms were given by thee to him (134) who came forth from near and him, too, who was from afar; and wealth which was due to honesty was acquired by thee. 135. And when thou sawest him who practiced false justice and taking of bribes, and false evidence was given by him, then thou hast sat down, and the recitation of truth and virtue was uttered by thee. 136. I am this of thine, the good thoughts, the good words, and the good deeds which were thought and spoken and done by thee. 137. For when I have become commendable, I am then made altogether more commendable by thee; (138) when I have become precious, I am then made altogether still more precious by thee; (139) and when I have become glorious, I am then made altogether still more glorious by thee."" (Menog-i Xrad II:125-139).
Thus there is wedding between the fravashi, the godly soul, and the daena, the manly soul; if the maiden is beautiful (that is, if the past life was good in essence and value and measure). Then follows a description of that evil soul of man's, which meets an ugly maiden, and there is no wedding. If there is a wedding, the wed is one, two no more, and join God in the Glorious House of song. If there is no wedding, the urvan goes to God, but the daena goes to the infamous House of the Lie, until it is purified.
That was an explanation of the role of the "soul". Now, as to: why three days; this may be explained by the importance of the number "three" in Zoroastrianism. Does it really stay near the head during three days or is it only symbolism? Those questions cannot found a prepared answer and must be answered by your own daena.
It is not in a dead body, to answer you dear Marco, but next to the "head". Once again, I think the head is mostly symbolic, but anyone can disagree with me.
The rituals are the chanting of prayers, there are prayers for the dead, and also three gah prayers dedicated to the soul, made by a priest (or many priests). Those prayers will not change the fate of the soul, but they connect the world to the soul, and are bringers of many advantages. They also show that people do their duty to the departed.
That is the ritual for the soul; there are many other rituals, destined to the body, which are to long to describe here. It must be known that the body should absolutely not be touched after three hours after the death, a time at which we are actually sure the body is completely nasu and inhabited by Ahriman. (Nasu means "dejection, very dirty thing").
Have I well answered those questions of yours?
this question is quite interesting. What Christian thinkers consider as being the soul is for us two distinct elements: the daena (the Conscience, a word which in later Avestan means religion, and has given the word "dēn" in Pahlavi, and "dīn" in modern Persian) and the urvan. The difference between the two is showed by many parts of the Gathas (ex. 31:20). While daena is dependent and created for each man, separately (31:11), the urvan contains the fravashi, God's own self distributed in the Creation. The fravashi obeys the laws of God only, and is pure, there is the same godly fravashi for every individual of the world.
To fully understand the story as told in many Zoroastrian books, the Avesta to begin with, one must acquaint one's self with Zoroastrian symbolism, a longer and very interesting subject. We have yet to consider the story of the death soul's journey as a most symbolic one, while being all true.
At every human death, stands the urvan with the fravashi by the head (a symbol of man's own decisions). If the good deeds, words and thoughts, did indeed exceed the evil ones, the fravashi sings the Ushtavaiti gatha, that is, the most joyous part of Revelation. If it is the obverse, it sings the Yasna 46, the saddest (at least, in appearance) of the Gathas. Then the urvan goes to the Bridge of Passage, and meets there either a beautiful maiden, or an ugly one. It is the daena in fact; the actions of man, which are that maiden. This is said about it:
"And his own deeds of a virtuous kind come to meet him in the form of a maiden, (126) who is handsomer and better than every maiden in the world. 127. 'And the righteous soul speaks (128) thus: "Who mayst thou be, that a maiden who is handsomer and better than thee was never seen by me in the worldly existence?"
129. 'In reply that maiden form responds (130) thus: "I am no maiden, but I am thy virtuous deeds, thou youth who art well-thinking, well-speaking, well-doing, and of good religion! 131. For when thou sawest in the world him who performed demon-worship, then thou hast sat down, and thy performance was the worship of the sacred beings. 132. And when it was seen by thee that there was any one who caused oppression and plunder, and distressed or scorned a good person, and acquired wealth by crime, then thou keptest back from the creatures their own risk of oppression and plunder; (133) the good person was also thought of by thee, and lodging and entertainment provided; and alms were given by thee to him (134) who came forth from near and him, too, who was from afar; and wealth which was due to honesty was acquired by thee. 135. And when thou sawest him who practiced false justice and taking of bribes, and false evidence was given by him, then thou hast sat down, and the recitation of truth and virtue was uttered by thee. 136. I am this of thine, the good thoughts, the good words, and the good deeds which were thought and spoken and done by thee. 137. For when I have become commendable, I am then made altogether more commendable by thee; (138) when I have become precious, I am then made altogether still more precious by thee; (139) and when I have become glorious, I am then made altogether still more glorious by thee."" (Menog-i Xrad II:125-139).
Thus there is wedding between the fravashi, the godly soul, and the daena, the manly soul; if the maiden is beautiful (that is, if the past life was good in essence and value and measure). Then follows a description of that evil soul of man's, which meets an ugly maiden, and there is no wedding. If there is a wedding, the wed is one, two no more, and join God in the Glorious House of song. If there is no wedding, the urvan goes to God, but the daena goes to the infamous House of the Lie, until it is purified.
That was an explanation of the role of the "soul". Now, as to: why three days; this may be explained by the importance of the number "three" in Zoroastrianism. Does it really stay near the head during three days or is it only symbolism? Those questions cannot found a prepared answer and must be answered by your own daena.
It is not in a dead body, to answer you dear Marco, but next to the "head". Once again, I think the head is mostly symbolic, but anyone can disagree with me.
The rituals are the chanting of prayers, there are prayers for the dead, and also three gah prayers dedicated to the soul, made by a priest (or many priests). Those prayers will not change the fate of the soul, but they connect the world to the soul, and are bringers of many advantages. They also show that people do their duty to the departed.
That is the ritual for the soul; there are many other rituals, destined to the body, which are to long to describe here. It must be known that the body should absolutely not be touched after three hours after the death, a time at which we are actually sure the body is completely nasu and inhabited by Ahriman. (Nasu means "dejection, very dirty thing").
Have I well answered those questions of yours?
Marco19
Researcher
Hello Dear Majusi and thank you for your kind and deep explanation 
you said: urvan contains the fravashi ... i wonder what are the other things/entities within urvan?
if not then purification needs that, let say, the ugly turns beautiful.
If the above is right, then i wonder who will follow Ahriman? or if Ahriman has any role in life after death in general.
it looks like Ahriman is playing his role as a soldier/servant under Ahura Mazda, not a rebelion or a seeker for a spiritual realm.
if i consider the concept of purification then why to not live a sinful life? or being Atheist? or criminal?
i mean at the end we'll be purified... even Hitler is going or may be he has already purified and entered the realm of Ahura Mazda.
you said: urvan contains the fravashi ... i wonder what are the other things/entities within urvan?
ok, let me summarize my understanding... if the good (thought/word/deed) wins then a marriage occurs directly,
if not then purification needs that, let say, the ugly turns beautiful.
If the above is right, then i wonder who will follow Ahriman? or if Ahriman has any role in life after death in general.
it looks like Ahriman is playing his role as a soldier/servant under Ahura Mazda, not a rebelion or a seeker for a spiritual realm.
if i consider the concept of purification then why to not live a sinful life? or being Atheist? or criminal?
i mean at the end we'll be purified... even Hitler is going or may be he has already purified and entered the realm of Ahura Mazda.
Why he remains three hours only? and what happens to him after the three hours (i mean Ahriman)?
El_Majusi
Member
Dear Marco,
looking in my book, I see that after death there are three thinks instead of one that do what I told you about the Urvan:
-Baodha (cf. Sanskrit cognate "buddhi", "buddha"): the "discerning intellect",
-Urvan,
-Fravashi.
But in later texts the Urvan has taken a global denomination. It's just a question of words. You can say that both Fravashi and Baodha rest within the Urvan.
Let's not take the marriage thing as a concrete one. What you say is right, anyway.
" If the above is right, then i wonder who will follow Ahriman? or if Ahriman has any role in life after death in general." I don't get it at all. Can you rephrase please?
" it looks like Ahriman is playing his role as a soldier/servant under Ahura Mazda, not a rebelion or a seeker for a spiritual realm." Of course not! Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are separated from the beginning to the end. Neither one is going to play a role for the other! Fortunately, by the Grace of the Gracious, Angra Mainyu is going to disappear from the world, forever, and may it be soon!
Those questions you ask then are understandable from a Christian/Muslim ("Abrahamic") point of view. For us the man you are will die, but the soul is immortal. So you won't be the same man as today thinking of your past life again and again, but a sum of wisdom.
An atheist, as soon as he does not reject the Law of Mazda, is not a sinner by his/her own existence. You can be an atheist and directly marry the Good Daena.
Why not live a sinful life? Dear friend, first: the suffering due to purification exist, so why would you like to suffer from it? Why would you like to know pain before knowing bliss? For God said:
"Thus, understand, O mortal men, the Decrees
which Mazda has established regarding happiness and misery.
There will be
a long period of suffering for the wicked,
and salvation for the just,
but thereafter
eternal bliss shall prevail everywhere" (30:11).
But the second (and most important) point is this: "why not live a sinful life?". Is this the purpose of life? Should a rapist rape a girl because he knows that, after some years in prison, he shall be freed again? Moreover your question (take no offense) eludes one very important point: as said in many parts of the Revelation, each action has a consequence (on the doer). To a bad action, comes an evil consequence, to a good action, a good consequence. It is also said: "the evil have destroyed the Good Life for their own selves" and, "their own consciences have kept them away from bliss". Why keep yourself away from happiness by doing so evil deeds that you will suffer in both lives?
"even Hitler is going or may be he has already purified and entered the realm of Ahura Mazda." I don't think Hitler's soul will enter the Kingdom yet, and there is doubt as to if it be for soon... Anyway, as I said, it is not the person itself, but the soul. And for that bliss of bliss -namely, to dwell in the "wondrous paths, where Ahura Mazda Itself dwells", it needs to be pure. Ahura Mazda has made Its glorious creation pure, and it will be pure again, as it is written in the Pahlavi texts: "everything will disappear at the end, but righteousness". So all the evil, by means of what we call, though it is no appropriate word, (but in the English tongue, there is none), "purification", all the evil dies away.
The soul that enters the House of Song is then the soul of a sinner no more, but all showered in Righteousness. That takes more or less time according to the amount of sin done. Think well, speak well, do well, good thoughts, good words, good deeds, so that your soul may marry your conscience and you may attain bliss, and also great rewards will come to you during this earthly life.
"Why he remains three hours only? and what happens to him after the three hours (i mean Ahriman)? " I may not have expressed myself very well. He remains within the corpse forever, until by special animals it is eaten, and its time of coming is usually, according to Tradition, three hours after the heart has ceased to beat.
My hopes are that I have been clear and understood, so that all the asked questions be answered.
If there are any other questions, my joy is to answer them.
looking in my book, I see that after death there are three thinks instead of one that do what I told you about the Urvan:
-Baodha (cf. Sanskrit cognate "buddhi", "buddha"): the "discerning intellect",
-Urvan,
-Fravashi.
But in later texts the Urvan has taken a global denomination. It's just a question of words. You can say that both Fravashi and Baodha rest within the Urvan.
Let's not take the marriage thing as a concrete one. What you say is right, anyway.
" If the above is right, then i wonder who will follow Ahriman? or if Ahriman has any role in life after death in general." I don't get it at all. Can you rephrase please?
" it looks like Ahriman is playing his role as a soldier/servant under Ahura Mazda, not a rebelion or a seeker for a spiritual realm." Of course not! Ahura Mazda and Angra Mainyu are separated from the beginning to the end. Neither one is going to play a role for the other! Fortunately, by the Grace of the Gracious, Angra Mainyu is going to disappear from the world, forever, and may it be soon!
Those questions you ask then are understandable from a Christian/Muslim ("Abrahamic") point of view. For us the man you are will die, but the soul is immortal. So you won't be the same man as today thinking of your past life again and again, but a sum of wisdom.
An atheist, as soon as he does not reject the Law of Mazda, is not a sinner by his/her own existence. You can be an atheist and directly marry the Good Daena.
Why not live a sinful life? Dear friend, first: the suffering due to purification exist, so why would you like to suffer from it? Why would you like to know pain before knowing bliss? For God said:
"Thus, understand, O mortal men, the Decrees
which Mazda has established regarding happiness and misery.
There will be
a long period of suffering for the wicked,
and salvation for the just,
but thereafter
eternal bliss shall prevail everywhere" (30:11).
But the second (and most important) point is this: "why not live a sinful life?". Is this the purpose of life? Should a rapist rape a girl because he knows that, after some years in prison, he shall be freed again? Moreover your question (take no offense) eludes one very important point: as said in many parts of the Revelation, each action has a consequence (on the doer). To a bad action, comes an evil consequence, to a good action, a good consequence. It is also said: "the evil have destroyed the Good Life for their own selves" and, "their own consciences have kept them away from bliss". Why keep yourself away from happiness by doing so evil deeds that you will suffer in both lives?
"even Hitler is going or may be he has already purified and entered the realm of Ahura Mazda." I don't think Hitler's soul will enter the Kingdom yet, and there is doubt as to if it be for soon... Anyway, as I said, it is not the person itself, but the soul. And for that bliss of bliss -namely, to dwell in the "wondrous paths, where Ahura Mazda Itself dwells", it needs to be pure. Ahura Mazda has made Its glorious creation pure, and it will be pure again, as it is written in the Pahlavi texts: "everything will disappear at the end, but righteousness". So all the evil, by means of what we call, though it is no appropriate word, (but in the English tongue, there is none), "purification", all the evil dies away.
The soul that enters the House of Song is then the soul of a sinner no more, but all showered in Righteousness. That takes more or less time according to the amount of sin done. Think well, speak well, do well, good thoughts, good words, good deeds, so that your soul may marry your conscience and you may attain bliss, and also great rewards will come to you during this earthly life.
"Why he remains three hours only? and what happens to him after the three hours (i mean Ahriman)? " I may not have expressed myself very well. He remains within the corpse forever, until by special animals it is eaten, and its time of coming is usually, according to Tradition, three hours after the heart has ceased to beat.
My hopes are that I have been clear and understood, so that all the asked questions be answered.
If there are any other questions, my joy is to answer them.
Marco19
Researcher
Dear Majusi, thanks for your cristal clear explanation.
i have almost noting to ask ... well, to close this case, i have one more question i read it somewhere but can't remember, so please correct me if i'm mistaken.
Is there any role for a dog/or may be dog with four eyes (something like that) in the process?
i really can't remember, but pretty sure it's related to Zoroastrianism.
Thanks in advance
i have almost noting to ask
... well, to close this case, i have one more question i read it somewhere but can't remember, so please correct me if i'm mistaken.Is there any role for a dog/or may be dog with four eyes (something like that) in the process?
i really can't remember, but pretty sure it's related to Zoroastrianism.
Thanks in advance
MD
qualiaphile
Dear Majusi, thanks for your cristal clear explanation.
i have almost noting to ask
Is there any role for a dog/or may be dog with four eyes (something like that) in the process?
i really can't remember, but pretty sure it's related to Zoroastrianism.
Thanks in advance
I think dogs are considered to be helpers of Daena. They are generally considered as spiritually favorable animals in Zoroastrianism (which runs completely counter to the predominant religion in Iran today).
El_Majusi would probably have a more indepth explantion on the role of dogs.
El_Majusi
Member
Yes, you are right, there's something about dogs. It is said that, as soon as somebody dies, they shall bring in the dogs, so they may look at the body and diminish the nasu (dejection/infectious character) in it. The dogs are also corpse-eating animals (with vulture) the only purifiers of the dead body. And another interesting point is to see that dakhmas (also called "Towers of Silence") where the corpse is put waiting for it to be eaten exist for human beings and also for dogs.Dear Majusi, thanks for your cristal clear explanation.
i have almost noting to ask
Is there any role for a dog/or may be dog with four eyes (something like that) in the process?
i really can't remember, but pretty sure it's related to Zoroastrianism.
Thanks in advance
There are still dakhmas all around the world, but the only ones used up to date are those in India, the Zoroastrian community of Iran having taken the (stupid) decision to stop using them in Iran at the end of the rule of the Shah. They have chosen another way of burying: they put the body in a metal coffin, so it won't touch the earth. It's better as if it touched it, but the problem is that the nasu stays there forever and ever, unless they open the coffin and present it to the vultures.
I don't think there are still "dog dakhmas" today.
The passage you talk about is about something else, about ways on which corpses of human beings or dogs have been carried along. And it is said so in the Vendidad:
"16. 'They shall therefore cause a yellow dog with four eyes, or a white dog with yellow ears, to go three times through that way. When either the yellow dog with four eyes, or the white dog with yellow ears, is brought there, then the Druj Nasu flies away to the regions of the north, in the shape of a raging fly, with knees and tail sticking out, droning without end, and like unto the foulest Khrafstras." (VIII:8).
A dog with four eyes is a dog that has coloured spots on the eyes. Such superstitions were somehow important at that time. Of course things have changed.
Marco19
Researcher
Dear Majusi thank you again for clarification, but you said something i have never heard about it before:
i know about the dakhmas, and even the one used by the Parsis in Bombai.
but one for dogs? can you go in more details?
i mean why dogs? if you say because they purify, then i'll wonder why not another one for vultures?
then i want to know the period when it was practiced, and if the Parsis did it after arriving India.
since we are talking about animals, let me ask this:
Do you believe that animals have urvan as humans, and they will ascend to spiritual realm (the same or differ from human's?)
i thought it was the end, but seems i still dig to ask more, sorry :angel2:
i know about the dakhmas, and even the one used by the Parsis in Bombai.
but one for dogs? can you go in more details?
i mean why dogs? if you say because they purify, then i'll wonder why not another one for vultures?
then i want to know the period when it was practiced, and if the Parsis did it after arriving India.
since we are talking about animals, let me ask this:
Do you believe that animals have urvan as humans, and they will ascend to spiritual realm (the same or differ from human's?)
i thought it was the end, but seems i still dig to ask more, sorry :angel2:
El_Majusi
Member
Hello Marco!
Your questions help me to deepen my knowledge and to remember things forgotten so, please, keep asking as long as questions come to your mind!
Dogs are very important animals in Zoroastrianism, certainly the second most revered (after human beings), this is maybe the reason why they had their own dakhmas, meaning Ahriman invaded their corpses also. Maybe another reason is that the sicknesses of the dogs go fast from dog to man and their corpses can be sick as well?
I think the Parsis did it in India, if they had dogs with them. Anyway, they are people who are specialized in the Dakhmas, I am not one of them so I am unsure of that.
As to the question about animals having urvans, it is a very good one, and you'd be maybe surprised to hear that they are diverging opinions within the community, so there is no definitive answer. A great scholar that I personally know does not cease to claim that animals have a soul, but many Zoroastrians deny it. Everybody quotes at length to prove one's point, but neither opinion has supremacy on the other, so it's a question of personal opinion. I am of those who think animals have an urvan.
As to their passing away, the question has a more obvious answer, that is: every animals have their own fravashi (is it the same as ours? Nothing can help finding the answer) thus, their fravashi will go back to God as soon as they died, as for every fravashi, and if they have an urvan, the same thing that exists for human beings will happen to them.
Questions about animals are interesting but difficult for me to answer because I have not studied this subject very well...
Your questions help me to deepen my knowledge and to remember things forgotten so, please, keep asking as long as questions come to your mind!
Dogs are very important animals in Zoroastrianism, certainly the second most revered (after human beings), this is maybe the reason why they had their own dakhmas, meaning Ahriman invaded their corpses also. Maybe another reason is that the sicknesses of the dogs go fast from dog to man and their corpses can be sick as well?
I think the Parsis did it in India, if they had dogs with them. Anyway, they are people who are specialized in the Dakhmas, I am not one of them so I am unsure of that.
As to the question about animals having urvans, it is a very good one, and you'd be maybe surprised to hear that they are diverging opinions within the community, so there is no definitive answer. A great scholar that I personally know does not cease to claim that animals have a soul, but many Zoroastrians deny it. Everybody quotes at length to prove one's point, but neither opinion has supremacy on the other, so it's a question of personal opinion. I am of those who think animals have an urvan.
As to their passing away, the question has a more obvious answer, that is: every animals have their own fravashi (is it the same as ours? Nothing can help finding the answer) thus, their fravashi will go back to God as soon as they died, as for every fravashi, and if they have an urvan, the same thing that exists for human beings will happen to them.
Questions about animals are interesting but difficult for me to answer because I have not studied this subject very well...
MightyWarrior22
New Member
Is it truth there are two main zoroastrian groups? The traditional Zoroastrianism that follows the Avesta and the reformist Zoroastrianism that jsut follows the Gathas?
MightyWarrior22
New Member
And do the reformist Zoroastrianism have priests?
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
I was hoping for more traffic in this thread.
MD
qualiaphile
I don't know much about whether there are two groups practicing Zoroatrianism, but there are definitely two types of Zoroastrians religiously speaking, liberal and conservative. The ones who are liberal tend to accept converts, follow the gathas more etc, while conservatives don't. Generally speaking Parsis and Iranian Zoroastrians can tend to have both pepole, so it's hard to group them into two groups cuz even though they may have different religious views culturally they can be very similar. I'm considered religiously liberal for a Zoroatrian but have friends who aren't, however we have the same cultural foundations and connect on that.
Last edited: