Zoroastrians: Introduce yourself

[MD]

Hi . Okay, I will start with a question

What do you think is the origin of ' Yazata ' ?

I think the Yazatas were pre Zoroastrian Indo Iranian gods who were incorporated into the faith and became something in between demi gods and angels.

The Gathas refer to them more metaphorically than other parts of the Avesta do.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes I believe there is a creative force in the universe called Ahura Mazda, whose could be called God.

However Ahura Mazda is different from the Abrahamic God in some ways.

Hi MD. In which ways is Ahura Mazda different? Is Ahura Mazda a He?

Also do you have Zoroastrian prayers from official sacred Zoroastrian literature as I would like to pray sometimes using them.

 

[MD]

Hi MD. In which ways is Ahura Mazda different? Is Ahura Mazda a He?

Also do you have Zoroastrian prayers from official sacred Zoroastrian literature as I would like to pray sometimes using them.

Mazda actually has a feminine connotation, but Ahura is masculine, so it's gender neutral. We refer to Ahura Mazda as Him though, probably due to Islamic influence over many centuries. Ahura Mazda is not omnipotent, but all benevolent. This sidesteps the problem of evil, as well as the problem of reconciling free will with predestination found in Abrahamic faiths.

Here are our basic prayers:
Ashem vohu

Yatha Ahu Vairyo

Kem na Mazdao

Hormazd Khoda

Jasa me avanghe mazdao

All the prayers and more can be found here. The meaning of each prayer is also in this pdf
http://avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_kanga_epub.pdf

 

[loverofhumanity]

Mazda actually has a feminine connotation, but Ahura is masculine, so it's gender neutral. We refer to Ahura Mazda as Him though, probably due to Islamic influence over many centuries. Ahura Mazda is not omnipotent, but all benevolent. This sidesteps the problem of evil, as well as the problem of reconciling free will with predestination found in Abrahamic faiths.

Here are our basic prayers:
Ashem vohu

Yatha Ahu Vairyo

Kem na Mazdao

Hormazd Khoda

Jasa me avanghe mazdao

All the prayers and more can be found here. The meaning of each prayer is also in this pdf
http://avesta.org/kanga/ka_english_kanga_epub.pdf

Thanks very much and the chanting is very peaceful.

Which book goes into your beliefs like good thoughts, good words, good deeds etc I believe in these things but there are so many authors. The basic Bible?

And the life story of Zoroaster? I am happy to buy it on kindle electronically if there isn't anything available from your website.

 

[Electriceclectic]

I think the Yazatas were pre Zoroastrian Indo Iranian gods who were incorporated into the faith and became something in between demi gods and angels.

The Gathas refer to them more metaphorically than other parts of the Avesta do.

Hmmmm .... a demi-God is okay in monotheistic religion ? IS Zoroastrian monotheistic ?

Metaphor , yes, that is my opinion also . IMO they are human qualities, that, in the past , have been 'aligned' with the perceived qualities of the planets . And from there, personified .

I also think at times that this is also the origin of dualism (in theology ) ; the propensity for the human mind to 'go either way' . Which, by the way, I think Zoroastrianism has a good insight into ; states and causes of 'good ' or 'bad' mind , and the way to preserve 'good mind' , and create good society .

 

[Electriceclectic]

Also your comment 'pre Zoroastrian Indo Iranian gods' ; Do you think Zoroaster was a reformer of a previous type of Monotheism / Mazdaism ( 'keepers of the ancient law' ) or do you think he bought something new into the previous 'pre-Vedic' polytheistic 'daeva worship' .

Some seem to think monotheism was a component of part of the PIE peoples religions before location in Central Asia, and trace it back to some form of Siberian Shamanism. Others seem to think PIE people were all 'Vedic' polytheists until advent of Zoroaster ( but most of the people I have talked to about this appear to be Indians .... ans at times, they can be a little difficult to talk to as they often put scripture and nationalism above research .

I am very interested to hear the 'other side ' viewpoint .

 

[MD]

Thanks very much and the chanting is very peaceful.

Which book goes into your beliefs like good thoughts, good words, good deeds etc I believe in these things but there are so many authors. The basic Bible?

And the life story of Zoroaster? I am happy to buy it on kindle electronically if there isn't anything available from your website.

All religions talk about doing good, albeit for different purposes and reasons. Some say it to get into eternal heaven, others for better karma. To be honest I think many religions have been influenced by the Zoroastrian idea of goodness, righteousness, etc. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i have for sure, as well as Buddhism to some extent due to Manicheasm. In Christianity there is a lot of emphasis on accepting that Christ is our savior and the son of God, but the Bible does have many good things to say.

I don't know much about the life story of Zoroaster, he existed a long time (around 1600 BC), so most of it would be fiction. I do know that the Gathas have been preserved more or less for a very long time are probably the closest thing to what we can understand about Zoroaster.

 

[MD]

Hmmmm .... a demi-God is okay in monotheistic religion ? IS Zoroastrian monotheistic ?

Metaphor , yes, that is my opinion also . IMO they are human qualities, that, in the past , have been 'aligned' with the perceived qualities of the planets . And from there, personified .

I also think at times that this is also the origin of dualism (in theology ) ; the propensity for the human mind to 'go either way' . Which, by the way, I think Zoroastrianism has a good insight into ; states and causes of 'good ' or 'bad' mind , and the way to preserve 'good mind' , and create good society .

Zoroastrianism is monotheistic in the sense that we worship Ahura Mazda, but the religion is very old and has gone through changes. It probably was Henotheistic during Achaemenian times up until the Sassanian era at which point we have a monism come about through Zurvanism.

It is in essence dualistic, that there are two opposing forces (good vs evil), but as humans we must choose the good, worship the good. Philosophers tried to expand on where these forces came from during Sassanian and even Abassid times, referencing Zurvan (time) but since the fall of Baghdad there hasn't been any original Zoroastrian work published or incorporated into the Avesta.

Zoroastrianism states that the mind is the essence of Ahura Mazda, as all creation begins with a thought, which might have overlap with dharmic faiths.

 

[MD]

Also your comment 'pre Zoroastrian Indo Iranian gods' ; Do you think Zoroaster was a reformer of a previous type of Monotheism / Mazdaism ( 'keepers of the ancient law' ) or do you think he bought something new into the previous 'pre-Vedic' polytheistic 'daeva worship' .

Some seem to think monotheism was a component of part of the PIE peoples religions before location in Central Asia, and trace it back to some form of Siberian Shamanism. Others seem to think PIE people were all 'Vedic' polytheists until advent of Zoroaster ( but most of the people I have talked to about this appear to be Indians .... ans at times, they can be a little difficult to talk to as they often put scripture and nationalism above research .

I am very interested to hear the 'other side ' viewpoint .

I think he brought something new, not only did he reform things he moved away from strong fatalism and monism by introducing two opposing forces in the universe and the freedom for us to choose between those forces. This idea heavily influenced the Greeks, which further influenced Christianity and other newer Western ideas. Even movies like Star Wars explore this, the importance of choice and the battle between good and evil. In some ways Western civilization is closer to Zoroaster's initial message than Iranic civilizations are today.

I think a lot of the yazatas were meant to be metaphors, but all religions have components of the old and the Zoroastrian priests that followed in the coming centuries incorporated them as actual beings.

I'm not an academic within the field, I am trained in science. What I tell is from my own readings, there are Zoroastrian academics you can ask this to.

 

[Electriceclectic]

Sure, but you gave pretty good answers , and delightfully free of an 'agenda '

I have only just started looking into Zurvanism . henotheism eh ? yes, that seems to make for a liberal and just society .

The 'moving away from fatalism' is an interesting way to put it . I have been looking at how the 4 'class' systems are different but similar in both Vedic and Avesta tradition. The Indian system seems very 'fatalistic'.

Also the Avesta traditions seem to include women more equally.

 

[Electriceclectic]

PS . do you know a good resource for " Zoroastrian academics you can ask this to."

Thanks

 

[MD]

Sure, but you gave pretty good answers , and delightfully free of an 'agenda '

I have only just started looking into Zurvanism . henotheism eh ? yes, that seems to make for a liberal and just society .

The 'moving away from fatalism' is an interesting way to put it . I have been looking at how the 4 'class' systems are different but similar in both Vedic and Avesta tradition. The Indian system seems very 'fatalistic'.

Also the Avesta traditions seem to include women more equally.

The class systems I think are a carry on from the pre Zoroastrian religion and ideas. I believe Hinduism is generally more fatalistic, at least from what I've read and what some Hindus here at RF have told me. In essence though, as are the Abrahamic faiths.

By claiming omnipotence and omniscience, it absolves one of free will and basically suggests the universe is deterministic, albeit guided by a higher spiritual being than the laws of physics.

 

[MD]

PS . do you know a good resource for " Zoroastrian academics you can ask this to."

Thanks

KD Irani is a Zoroastrian philosopher. This is my favorite video of his

Touraj Daryaee is an Iranian historian with the University of California. He has a lot of work on the Sassanians and pre Islamic Iran.

Richard Foltz is an Iranian studies prof at Concordia University in Canada. He focuses more on the current Zoroastrian community in Iran and other Zoroastrian communities in the world.

Mary Boyce was an expert on Zoroastrianism, but she passed away about a decade ago. She is the best source for Zoroastrian history and communities in Iran today.

Ali A Jafarey is a Zoroastrian from Iran, he has been one of the main proponents of the Gathic reformation within the faith.

These are the few I know off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more.

 

[Electriceclectic]

The class systems I think are a carry on from the pre Zoroastrian religion and ideas. I believe Hinduism is generally more fatalistic, at least from what I've read and what some Hindus here at RF have told me. In essence though, as are the Abrahamic faiths.

By claiming omnipotence and omniscience, it absolves one of free will and basically suggests the universe is deterministic, albeit guided by a higher spiritual being than the laws of physics.

Ahh! You have struck another chord with me there ! What do think the pre Zoroastrian religions were ? I have seen reference to an Avestan term that seems to mean 'Keepers of the Ancient Law' .

Farvardin Yasht and Denkard both seem to suggest Gaya Maretan was such a 'keeper' - hence; from the beginning of Aryan history. It is also suggested that they were proponents of an early form of 'Mazdaism ' the worshipers of God. If so does this indicate some form of early Zoroastrianism and Zoroaster was somewhat of a 'reformer' ?

The other view is that the ancient law was Vedic and Zoroaster brought forward a new religion 'against' that - Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho, that is, Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura) .

( I have been fluctuating between the two views depending on what I have read . But only, so far I have only talked to the Vedic proponents

 

[Electriceclectic]

PS thanks for the info in #53

 

[MD]

Ahh! You have struck another chord with me there ! What do think the pre Zoroastrian religions were ? I have seen reference to an Avestan term that seems to mean 'Keepers of the Ancient Law' .

Probably a faith similar to Vedic religions

Farvardin Yasht and Denkard both seem to suggest Gaya Maretan was such a 'keeper' - hence; from the beginning of Aryan history. It is also suggested that they were proponents of an early form of 'Mazdaism ' the worshipers of God. If so does this indicate some form of early Zoroastrianism and Zoroaster was somewhat of a 'reformer' ?

From what I've read Zoroasters ideas were novel, since at the time Bactria was extremely tribal and war like. I don't think he was a reformer, but the Gathas themselves differ substantially from Vedic texts. They also influenced Greek philosophy, which gave rise to Western civilization. The concept of choice and free will, good vs evil, etc are not Vedic, at least not to my knowledge.

The other view is that the ancient law was Vedic and Zoroaster brought forward a new religion 'against' that - Mazdayasno Zarathushtrish Vidaevo Ahura-Tkaesho, that is, Zarathushtrian Mazda-Worship opposed to the daeva through the laws of the Lord (Ahura) .

( I have been fluctuating between the two views depending on what I have read . But only, so far I have only talked to the Vedic proponents

I think this is the right view, since Vedics worship Daevas while Zoroaster placed an emphasis on Ahuras. Also I think his teachings were meant to be much more philosophical than literal.

 

[InquisitiveScholar]

Hey all,

Don't mind me, just jumping in to say that I am also a Zoroastrian, although only a spiritual convert to the faith (I haven't gone through the official ceremony) since early 2015.

 

[loverofhumanity]

KD Irani is a Zoroastrian philosopher. This is my favorite video of his

Touraj Daryaee is an Iranian historian with the University of California. He has a lot of work on the Sassanians and pre Islamic Iran.

Richard Foltz is an Iranian studies prof at Concordia University in Canada. He focuses more on the current Zoroastrian community in Iran and other Zoroastrian communities in the world.

Mary Boyce was an expert on Zoroastrianism, but she passed away about a decade ago. She is the best source for Zoroastrian history and communities in Iran today.

Ali A Jafarey is a Zoroastrian from Iran, he has been one of the main proponents of the Gathic reformation within the faith.

These are the few I know off the top of my head, I'm sure there are many more.

Beautifully explained. I believe in Zoroaster and His wonderful Teachings. This is truth!!

 

[InquisitiveScholar]

Beautifully explained. I believe in Zoroaster and His wonderful Teachings. This is truth!!

Well if that is the case, I am happy to welcome you to our small, but dedicated, community.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Well if that is the case, I am happy to welcome you to our small, but dedicated, community.

I've been meaning to say for a while now that I'm glad you're back. We could do with more Zoroastrians on this forum.

glares angrily at Rival