Pro-Palestinian Peaceful Protests

[libre]

Istria belonged to Italians since the times of the Romans.
Now Croatians have it. Yes. It has become theirs after 80 years.
So what?
It was traumatic, but the Italian refugees have moved on. They have had a closure.

The EU ensures peace and justice among nations.

Respectfully, if the entire Italian nation was deprived of the bulk of their homeland, trapped in a small strip of land they could not escape, and their attempts to gain statehood were consistently obstructed and sabotaged by a neighboring state or a settler-movement, I do not believe for a moment that you would simply 'move on'.

 

[Estro Felino]

Respectfully, if the entire Italian nation was deprived of the bulk of their homeland, trapped in a small strip of land they could not escape, and their attempts to gain statehood were consistently obstructed and sabotaged by a neighboring state or a settler-movement, I do not believe for a moment that you would simply 'move on'.

Italian is spoken in Italy only.
Arabic is spoken in tens of countries. So...when you speak of nation, what do you mean exactly?

 

[libre]

Italian is spoken in Italy only.

This is not relevant or true.

Arabic is spoken in tens of countries. So...when you speak of nation, what do you mean exactly?

Yes, and English is the official language of 67 countries.
Are they fair game for any wannabe conquerors? Take over a land and as long as you hold it for 80 years it's legally and morally fine because England might take them?

You can't help but defend European nationalism in dozens of threads, but when it comes to national liberation of a stateless Indigenous people you stand against nationalism? Give your head a shake.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is not relevant or true.

Yes, and English is the official language of 67 countries.
Are they fair game for any wannabe conquerors? Take over a land and as long as you hold it for 80 years it's legally and morally fine because England might take them?

You can't help but defend European nationalism in dozens of threads, but when it comes to national liberation of a stateless Indigenous people you stand against nationalism? Give your head a shake.

Let's speak of history, okay?
Can we agree that empires are bad, very, very bad and that we need to dismantle them?

There was the Ottoman Empire that was replaced by the British Empire.
When the horrific WW2 was over we Europeans dismantled our colonial empires, and we did it in a very tidy and ordered way. My country did it tidily because it had very few colonies, but the decolonization of the British Empire was very complex because we are speaking of immense territories.
It was decided that in the land that was called Syria-Palaestina in the ancient times, there had to be a Jewish nation states and several Arabic-speaking states like Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and so on.
The problem was that the borders questions didn't make anyone agree, back then.

And that is weird, because when we made peace with Yugoslavia or Austria, we got alone perfectly. And we lost so many regions, but we kept others.

The problem is that there has never been a peaceful and pacifist approach between Israel and the Arabic-speaking states in drawing that map.
Can you tell me why?

 

[Revoltingest]

Let's speak of history, okay?
Can we agree that empires are bad, very, very bad and that we need to dismantle them?

There was the Ottoman Empire that was replaced by the British Empire.
When the horrific WW2 was over we Europeans dismantled our colonial empires, and we did it in a very tidy and ordered way. My country did it tidily because it had very few colonies, but the decolonization of the British Empire was very complex because we are speaking of immense territories.
It was decided that in the land that was called Syria-Palaestina in the ancient times, there had to be a Jewish nation states and several Arabic-speaking states like Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and so on.
The problem was that the borders questions didn't make anyone agree, back then.

And that is weird, because when we made peace with Yugoslavia or Austria, we got alone perfectly. And we lost so many regions, but we kept others.

The problem is that there has never been a peaceful and pacifist approach between Israel and the Arabic-speaking states in drawing that map.
Can you tell me why?

That is an awful lot of words about entirely other
events & people. Is this a deflection from addressing
Israel's genocide against Palestinians, & the numerous
loud protests?

 

[libre]

When the horrific WW2 was over we Europeans dismantled our colonial empires, and we did it in a very tidy and ordered way.

It's just not true, unless by 'dismantled' and 'tidy' you really meant to say 'we were violently overthrown almost everywhere we were'.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is an awful lot of words about entirely other
events & people. Is this a deflection from addressing
Israel's genocide against Palestinians, & the numerous
loud protests?

Dearest, I always give other examples because I cannot stand double standards.
Which drives me nuts, really.

Like the way thinking "they can because they are superior while you guys are inferior"...no, thank you.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's just not true, unless by 'dismantled' and 'tidy' you really meant to say 'we were violently overthrown almost everywhere we were'.

That's not absolutely true.
Because Italy decolonized Libya in a very tidy way, and in fact all the administration law system remained.

If you want to speak of India...well...that was completely different.

 

[Revoltingest]

Dearest, I always give other examples because I cannot stand double standards.

You have nothing but double standards.
And of course whataboutism & conspiracy theories.
The question is why you seek to dismiss the plight
of Palestinians, & the evil perpetrated by Israel
by using these tactics?

 

[Estro Felino]

You have nothing but double standards.

One example?

The question is why you seek to dismiss the plight of Palestinians, & the evil perpetrated by Israel by using these tactics?

I side with peace, honestly.
They can coexist together, but it's a problem of religion, not a problem of land.

 

[Revoltingest]

I side with peace, honestly.

I see otherwise in your posts supporting Putin & Israel.

 

[Estro Felino]

I see otherwise in your posts supporting Putin & Israel.

No, I side with peace.
I am against divisions. I want to be friends with Israel, with Palestine, with Libya, Russia, Turkey, etc...

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I side with peace.
I am against divisions. I want to be friends with Israel, with Palestine, with Libya, Russia, Turkey, etc...

Yet you show support for the aggressors & oppressors
by derailing discussions addressing those wrongs, &
by wanting the victims to submit to the perpetrators.
That is a recipe for more predation....not for peace.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yet you show support for the aggressors & oppressors
by derailing discussions addressing those wrongs, &
by wanting the victims to submit to the perpetrators.
That is a recipe for more predation....not for peace.

As far as I remember, we submitted to the Americans and made peace with them in 1943.
I also need to point out that Sicily was freed from the Nazis very quickly because Sicilians helped Americans.

I would like to know why such kind of scenario wasn't or isn't doable in Gaza.

 

[Revoltingest]

As far as I remember, we submitted to the Americans and made peace with them in 1943.
I also need to point out that Sicily was freed from the Nazis very quickly because Sicilians helped Americans.

This is irrelevant to Israel's apartheid,
genocide, & starvation of Palestinians.

I would like to know why such kind of scenario wasn't or isn't doable in Gaza.

Because the west, especially USA, has
sided with Israel, & against the Palestinians.
Protesters are railing against this evil that
their governments perpetrate.

 

[libre]

Because Italy decolonized Libya in a very tidy way, and in fact all the administration law system remained.

Admittedly, Italy is an instance of the withdrawal of colonialism due to external forces, rather than just Libyan resistance.
It would be incredibly naive to think that it would've happened peacefully if it had not been defeated in WW2.

However, it was not 'tidy' and that the administration remained is a testament to how colonialism was still entrenched. You and I likely have different definitions of 'decolonization'.

See: https://www.jstor.org/stable/26416470

 

[libre]

I am against divisions. I want to be friends with Israel, with Palestine, with Libya, Russia, Turkey, etc...

If one of your friends socks another one of your friends in the face, do you keep the same level of neutrality?
Ignore the conflicts among your friends, and refuse to take sides?

In my opinion conflict avoidance to that extent is very conductive to losing friends. People don't trust you if you say nothing when they are treated poorly.

 

[Estro Felino]

If one of your friends socks another one of your friends in the face, do you keep the same level of neutrality?

Of course, not.
But I would create peace, afterwards.

In my opinion conflict avoidance to that extent is very conductive to losing friends. People don't trust you if you say nothing when they are treated poorly.

The divisiveness is against the constitutions of Germany and Italy which demand a world order based upon cooperation and diplomacy. And not about divisions, like the sections of a soccer stadium.
We call that "soccer-fan-ism". No, thank you.

 

[Estro Felino]

Because the west, especially USA, has
sided with Israel, & against the Palestinians.
Protesters are railing against this evil that
their governments perpetrate.

But I have listened to the testimony of an Italian person who lives in Israel and she made it clear that Israelis want peace.
As far as I have understood, there are Arabic-speaking people in Israel as well: they all want peace.

The problem is religious fundamentalism. It's not a problem of lands, of territories.

 

[Revoltingest]

But I have listened to the testimony of an Italian person who lives in Israel and she made it clear that Israelis want peace.

Of course they do. Germans wanted peace in WW2,
Russians want peace now....all violent aggressors
want peace, but not by behaving peacefully...rather
by conquering their prey.
This shallow defense of Israel's genocide disgusts me.
(And I am not easily disgusted. I like haggis.)