The "Not A Dude" Trend

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really? You think there is any sort of moral equivalence in your comparison?

Yes. And I'm sure you don't.

 

[icehorse]

Yes. And I'm sure you don't.

It's your claim, will you connect the dots?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's your claim, will you connect the dots?

Not to your satisfaction.

Nobody's the villain of their own story.

 

[Subduction Zone]

A simple answer is NOT what I want at all. I know it's complex, that's why I posed it the way I did.

But it's not so complex that it defies explanations or requires circular logic, which is to say no logic at all. Which brings me back around to my original point, which is that the word "gender" does more to confuse than to clarify. And that's not good for anyone.

It is not all circular logic. You tend to ignore the evidence. As has been mentioned by more than one person the brains of trans people have been tested and they react more like the brains of the opposite sex. Is that test one hundred percent the case one hundred percent of the time? No. It is a tendency, it is not a hard line that can be drawn in the sand.

It is not "circular" to believe people's claims when they are supported by their actions. Sooner or later you do have to trust people.

 

[icehorse]

It is not all circular logic. You tend to ignore the evidence. As has been mentioned by more than one person the brains of trans people have been tested and they react more like the brains of the opposite sex. Is that test one hundred percent the case one hundred percent of the time? No. It is a tendency, it is not a hard line that can be drawn in the sand.

It is not "circular" to believe people's claims when they are supported by their actions. Sooner or later you do have to trust people.

I'm talking about words and definitions, not neuroscience. But to answer the neuroscience claim, it's laughable. Any neuroscientist worth their salt will tell you that we're decades or probably centuries away from being able to make such claims based on brain scans.

As for their actions, what we're seeing is that trans activism has created situations that really, really bad men are taking advantage of. These situations are the zero-sum solutions I've been talking about, and they tend to allow for horrendous acts of misogyny.

How many girls should lose their athletic dreams to support selfish asshats like Lia Thomas?
How many women need to be raped or otherwise assaulted in women' safe spaces, so that men in dresses, who have made zero attempts to transition can have access to these spaces?

The idea is that people can gain or lose trust through their actions, correct?

 

[icehorse]

Not to your satisfaction.

Nobody's the villain of their own story.

It's not about my satisfaction, it's about whether YOUR comparison holds up to universal logical scrutiny.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's not about my satisfaction, it's about whether YOUR comparison holds up to universal logical scrutiny.

Sure it is.

I think you misunderstand who's judging who in this interaction.

 

[icehorse]

Sure it is.

I think you misunderstand who's judging who in this interaction.

At the moment we're debating YOUR claim. As a refresher, that's how debates work

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And earlier you said:

And even earlier you said:


I could be wrong, but it appears as though you've gotten yourself stuck on the big, messy tarbaby that trans activists have created, and you're trying to find a way to distance yourself. BTW, it's almost impossible to NOT get stuck on this particular tarbaby, it's the nature of tarbabies

You could be wrong.
My only interest in this topic is based on my personal experience, exposure, and responsibilities. This includes not just trans people (indeed not even mostly trans people) but non-binary people. I don't care how they present for the most part (again, sports is a separate issue for me, at least in some contexts) and I'm happy to use whatever pronoun they prefer, if I remember.
I've been pretty consistent on that.

For example, what did you mean when you mentioned "misgendering"? This is a serious question, because the very word "gender" has been weaponized by trans activists.

Again...I really don't care about transactivists, and I really don't care about reactionaries who care about transactivists.
If a person wants to present as a male, and be called he, then fine. In the vast majority of contexts, I don't care.

As for accepting how a person wants to present... well most trans people are good actors, but many are not. Many of these bad actors make no effort at all to present as a member of the opposite sex, they're just in it to game the system. In sports, in women's safe spaces, on dating apps, in women's prisons...

So...my earlier comment (if not to you) was that in the majority of contexts I don't care. To whit...

I was going a little further than that, and suggesting there are very few places where I should be concerned about how someone presents in any way shape or form.
Sports, contextually, can be one. But for the most part I should just accept however someone wants to present.

I see no reason to back away from that. I am not claiming that there are NO places where I should be concerned. And I think there is a large degree of personal responsibility in all these matters, regardless of laws. That might sound insufficient, but...ultimately...welcome to life. Let's not pretend women are not subject to risk on the use of dating apps if we can only remove trans people from them.

It seems you'd like to imagine that this is all benign, but it's not, it's frequently quite misogynistic, often violently so.

Frequently now?

 

[icehorse]

I see no reason to back away from that. I am not claiming that there are NO places where I should be concerned. And I think there is a large degree of personal responsibility in all these matters, regardless of laws. That might sound insufficient, but...ultimately...welcome to life.

I'm making a distinction between our personal behaviors - I'm sure yours are good - and public policies.

And many of these public policies sound good on the surface but are ultimately quite misogynistic. So being silent on these bad policies, or giving them tacit approval, IS a choice.

Frequently now?

How many girls should lose their athletic dreams to support selfish asshats like Lia Thomas?
How many women need to be raped or otherwise assaulted in women' safe spaces, so that men in dresses, who have made zero attempts to transition, can have access to these spaces?

 

[Soandso]

How many girls should lose their athletic dreams to support selfish asshats like Lia Thomas?
How many women need to be raped or otherwise assaulted in women' safe spaces, so that men in dresses, who have made zero attempts to transition, can have access to these spaces?

Oh brother...

 

[icehorse]

Oh brother...

Care to be more specific?

 

[Soandso]

Care to be more specific?

Repeatedly harping on a slippery slope fallacy over and over again despite people pointing out that it's a slippery slope fallacy over and over again is tiresome. I wasn't impressed by the satanic panic and I'm not impressed by your constant and unfounded assertions

 

[Soandso]

Care to be more specific?

Repeatedly harping on a slippery slope fallacy over and over again despite people pointing out that it's a slippery slope fallacy over and over again is tiresome. I wasn't impressed by the satanic panic and I'm not impressed by your constant and unfounded assertions

 

[icehorse]

Repeatedly harping on a slippery slope fallacy over and over again despite people pointing out that it's a slippery slope fallacy over and over again is tiresome. I wasn't impressed by the satanic panic and I'm not impressed by your constant and unfounded assertions

For the Nth time, this is not hypothetical stuff, it's happening:

List of Female Athletes by Sport | She Won

As is bad men in dresses assaulting women, as evidenced in the current Scotland thread elsewhere on RF.

It's not a slippery slope, because it's here. So the question remains, how many such incidents are okey dokey with you?

 

[McBell]

For the Nth time, this is not hypothetical stuff, it's happening:

List of Female Athletes by Sport | She Won

As is bad men in dresses assaulting women, as evidenced in the current Scotland thread elsewhere on RF.

It's not a slippery slope, because it's here. So the question remains, how many such incidents are okey dokey with you?

Sorta loses its impact when you see poker and archery, etc on the list.

And you forgot the other half...

 

[Soandso]

For the Nth time

Uh huh

This is my point. There's only so many times anyone can cry wolf before people stop listening

 

[icehorse]

Uh huh

This is my point. There's only so many times anyone can cry wolf before people stop listening

What's your definition of "crying wolf"? I have - repeatedly - provided evidence, ffs.

 

[libre]

A trans woman, yes. A woman, no!

Replace 'trans' with any other adjective and it becomes clear how self-defeating the distinction you are trying to outline is.

 

[Soandso]

What's your definition of "crying wolf"? I have - repeatedly - provided evidence, ffs.

Opinion pieces, highly biased articles, and smatterings of carefully selected cases here and there that prove our points aren't how we show trends - for that we need real data. You haven't provided that

For example, your highly skewed website there showing cis women displaced by trans women... Where's the website that shows when trans women are displaced by cis women? There isn't one. Why do you think that is? It's a website dedicated to appeal to people's confirmation bias

Until you provide actual data, all You're doing is crying wolf