The "Not A Dude" Trend

[crossfire]

Wondering what people think of the "Not A Dude" trend happening in women's sports:

Spoiler

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What do I think? I think it is distasteful and disrespectful. (Although I'm not surprised with all the crap internet memes out there.)

 

[crossfire]

I really wish that the transphobes would quit trying to drag cis-women into their transphobe complaints.

 

[icehorse]

Replace 'trans' with any other adjective and it becomes clear how self-defeating the distinction you are trying to outline is.

Sometimes biological sex matters, do you agree?

 

[icehorse]

Where's the website that shows when trans women are displaced by cis women? There isn't one. Why do you think that is? It's a website dedicated to appeal to people's confirmation bias

I'm not understanding your logic here? AFAIK there are currently no athletic events that have a special category for trans women only. (BTW, I think that category should be added.) Because no such category exists, the phrase "trans women displaced by cis women" is nonsensical.

Now let's say that such a category DID exist, the trans woman category in a sporting event, and a cis woman was allowed to enter, and won. There is a term for this, it's called "punching up". As a rule in our society we applaud punching up and we detest punching down.

Does that make sense to you?

For example, we applaud when a kid becomes a chess master - that kid is punching up. But we would detest the idea of a college student wanting to play tackle football on a grade school football team, that would be punching down.

Got it?

 

[Soandso]

I'm not understanding your logic here? AFAIK there are currently no athletic events that have a special category for trans women only. (BTW, I think that category should be added.) Because no such category exists, the phrase "trans women displaced by cis women" is nonsensical.

Whoosh

Either that, or you are purposefully unwilling to acknowledge the content of what I actually wrote. I thought I had expressed my thoughts clearly, though

 

[icehorse]

Whoosh

Either that, or you are purposefully unwilling to acknowledge the content of what I actually wrote. I thought I had expressed my thoughts clearly, though

What did you mean when you said "trans women displaced by cis women"? Displaced in what context? Since we're talking about sporting events, I assumed that was your context?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Whoosh

That is probably the best adjective amd verb to describe what real, good information is to a pseudointellectual and how they process it. It's not garbage McInfo, it's takes time to digest, you may have to digest other things to know how to digest it, it's just too much effort when the facade of intelligence is all you have.

 

[icehorse]

That is probably the best adjective amd verb to describe what real, good information is to a pseudointellectual and how they process it. It's not garbage McInfo, it's takes time to digest, you may have to digest other things to know how to digest it, it's just too much effort when the facade of intelligence is all you have.

If you're so smart, why do you so often stoop to personal attacks? Not a good look

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you're so smart, why do you so often stoop to personal attacks? Not a good look

News flash:
I'm not here to impress you. I'm not actually here to impress anyone, but it's apparent you're among the low-info members regarding this topic so I'm definitely not worried about what you say.
PS, I wasn't even directing that personally or specifically towards you. It was actually aimed at basically everyone who masquerades as being knowledgeable of the trans topic but so clearly don't know ****s from dildos about it.

 

[icehorse]

News flash:
I'm not here to impress you. I'm not actually here to impress anyone, but it's apparent you're among the low-info members regarding this topic so I'm definitely not worried about what you say.
PS, I wasn't even directing that personally or specifically towards you. It was actually aimed at basically everyone who masquerades as being knowledgeable of the trans topic but so clearly don't know dicks from dildos about it.

News flash: I didn't say it was about me - rofl

 

[Shadow Wolf]

News flash: I didn't say it was about me - rofl

You called it a personal attack.

 

[icehorse]

You called it a personal attack.

Oh Dear, THIS comment of yours is a personal attack:

It was actually aimed at basically everyone who masquerades as being knowledgeable of the trans topic but so clearly don't know dicks from dildos about it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh Dear, THIS comment of yours is a personal attack:

I called out no one specific.
But with you, civility long ago died with your bad faith, dishonest, high horsed arguments that waves away what medicine amd science actually says, you scream of activist boogeymen, and pass yourself off as knowledgeable on the subject when clearly you are so far off target you use dated terminology like its accurate to do so amd acceptable to put correct terminology between commas as a side note.
And repeatedly being proven wrong doesn't deter you.

 

[icehorse]

I called out no one specific.
But with you, civility long ago died with your bad faith, dishonest, high horsed arguments that waves away what medicine amd science actually says, you scream of activist boogeymen, and pass yourself off as knowledgeable on the subject when clearly you are so far off target you use dated terminology like its accurate to do so amd acceptable to put correct terminology between commas as a side note.

From my perspective, it appears that you are guilty of massively projecting.

I have provided citation after citation. And as an act of good faith, I can point you to the final Cass report that was released in the last few days:

Final Report – Cass Review

What meta-study after meta-study is discovering is that ALL of the evidence supporting "gender affirming care" (GAC), is of low quality. So thousands and thousands of confused kids with gender dysphoria are being led into a lifetime of expensive medicalization, a permanent loss of sexual function, and a host of endless health complications, with NO GOOD EVIDENCE that GAC helps.

There is NO GOOD EVIDENCE that GAC improves mental health in any way. It does NOT reduce suicidal thoughts or rates of suicide.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm making a distinction between our personal behaviors - I'm sure yours are good - and public policies.

And many of these public policies sound good on the surface but are ultimately quite misogynistic. So being silent on these bad policies, or giving them tacit approval, IS a choice.

Feel free to start a thread on a policy, and I'll give my thoughts, for whatever they are worth. My thoughts about the photo in the OP for this particular thread have been (I believe) quite unambiguous.

How many girls should lose their athletic dreams to support selfish asshats like Lia Thomas?

Is there some misunderstanding you have that when I specifically call out sports as a realm where I think there is contextual need to have a better handle on gender, you continue to use sports as an 'argument' against my position? Check other threads, if you like...I've been quite consistent.

How many women need to be raped or otherwise assaulted in women' safe spaces, so that men in dresses, who have made zero attempts to transition, can have access to these spaces?

I dunno. I feel like putting a number on it is a little vulgar. How many do you think?

 

[icehorse]

I dunno. I feel like putting a number on it is a little vulgar. How many do you think?

Any number above zero makes the current "solution" zero-sum. We need to do better than that

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Any number above zero makes the current "solution" zero-sum. We need to do better than that

Do you apply this logic to everything?
I'm waiting for your threads on one or two other pressing issues if so.

 

[icehorse]

Do you apply this logic to everything?
I'm waiting for your threads on one or two other pressing issues if so.

More or less, yes. We should always look for win-win solutions before settling on zero-sum solutions.

Do you disagree?

(Of course win-win solutions aren't always possible, I understand that.)

 

[lewisnotmiller]

More or less, yes. We should always look for win-win solutions before settling on zero-sum solutions.

Do you disagree?

(Of course win-win solutions aren't always possible, I understand that.)

Well...no one would disagree with 'win-win', but that is very contextual and subjective. Keeping it a little closer to the topic at hand, though, and I disagree. I think it sounds good and sensible in theory, but in reality we are always offsetting multiple factors.

For speeding, as an example, we are not about to implement 20km/h speed limits, although it would save lives. We don't ban alcohol, nor do we even ban drivers from drinking.
We accept that some things have risks we willing to accept. Literally everywhere.

That isn't me saying all bets are off. That is me saying I don't really believe lone instances of anything are very meaningful to decision making, and (as stated) I don't think this OP was about the problems with trans access to women's safe spaces, or similar. Rather, there was a doctored photo with a pithy punchline which was cheap and crap imho...despite being someone who believes some level of control is needed within sports.

 

[icehorse]

That isn't me saying all bets are off. That is me saying I don't really believe lone instances of anything are very meaningful to decision making, and (as stated) I don't think this OP was about the problems with trans access to women's safe spaces, or similar. Rather, there was a doctored photo with a pithy punchline which was cheap and crap imho...despite being someone who believes some level of control is needed within sports.

Earlier we had this exchange:

It seems you'd like to imagine that this is all benign, but it's not, it's frequently quite misogynistic, often violently so.

lewis: Frequently now?

Just for the record, it was your question above "frequently now?", that I've been responding to. And that question seems inconsistent with your "lone instances" comment (above).

To be clear, I'm responding to recent comments in this thread. As is typical, the thread has wandered away from the OP, so perhaps that's where any miscommunication originated?