So applying your definition to physics, if I write e=mc2 I've copied and or plagiarized Einstein because I repeated his formulation.
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Origins of the Quran
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
Shad
Veteran Member
Only if you were writing a paper to be published or for evaluation. This is why universities and other forms of higher education take a very harsh view of work without proper citations to the point that it counts against one's record. On a forum it does not really matter as there is no such standard you are being held to nor one you have accepted when you joined.
The major difference is that these standards exist now when these did not exists to such a degree in the past. The issue really is about what is claimed by the author at the time.
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And as you alluded to, the Quran was not written as an academic paper in 2015 using the standards of today. So complaining about Muhammad and the Quran could be considered analogous to complaining that a nail is not a screw.
use_your_brain
Active Member
What do you mean historical position? Do you mean Prophet Muhammad has not belong to any historical records? Islam is the faith that is backed by history as well. And one able to examine the faith by testing the record or the teaching whether it is compatible with archaeological invention or contradict (with the science/history/archaeology or what ever the fact we agree with).
use_your_brain
Active Member
Quran is a warning book. It warns us about the afterlife, hell, heaven and the meeting with our God. No matter it is not written in the academic standards, at least it teaches us the truth.
Shad
Veteran Member
You missed my point and part of Augustus's. History does not count supernatural explanations. If Mo is claiming an angel told him X this is already dismissed. However it does show that Mo is being deceptive as there are surahs which are based on previous texts. For example Quran 5:32 is just a reformed version of commentary from the Talmud while it is claimed to be ordained by Mo. However it was never in the Torah thus the claim is false.
outhouse
Atheistically
use_your_brain
Active Member
and what about Islam? since islam belongs to the historical records as well.
outhouse
Atheistically
It also belongs to the mythological records as well.
Islam historically speaking, used many biblical traditions rewriting the for its own needs. There is no other credible historical record
use_your_brain
Active Member
yes the myths in islam are true.
In case of rewriting the biblical traditions, you constantly speak about, in my opinion as long as Islam rewrite the true the good thing from the Biblical traditions then why don't you simply believe in it?
Interestingly, I met a man the other day who said he used to be a Muslim, but left to become a follower of Jesus after having noticed that the Qur'an a) never said that the Bible was corrupt and b) said that Jesus was not the Son of God. As he understood the Bible to say precisely the latter, he felt this was a contradiction, showing the Qur'an could not be the uncorrupted word of God, so he left Islam.
The types of people you meet in a Christian bookshop!
The types of people you meet in a Christian bookshop!
David M
Well-Known Member
Typical BS claim. Plagiarism is copying without acknowleding the source, Islam is clear on the point that it does source ideas and concepts from Judaism and Christianity so its not plagiarism.
David M
Well-Known Member
Incorrect, you are ignoring a third option, that he was simply exposed to such traditions over many years because they were present in the societies he lived among.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is a rational comments.
Thanks and regards
use_your_brain
Active Member
I want also to become a follower of Jesus, how to do that?
outhouse
Atheistically
Find me a single muslims that agrees the biblical traditions were copied.
Find me a single passage in the koran that states biblical mythology was taken from the bible.
Regardless of what you state, the koran used many biblical myths, and it states the origin is an angel not the actual biblical text that taught these men the biblical traditions.
The whole religion is based on a new revelation of a more true divine knowledge, and that is plagiarism. And its not academically followed either.
outhouse
Atheistically
Again, the words had to come from someone. Someone spoke the words. Your just adding more people to the mix that could have taught him, which is fine.
Your also taking it out of context, which is no mythological angel was required for creating the koran.
outhouse
Atheistically
maybe your not sure of what a myth is.
But myth can be not true. It can be fictional legends. Are you saying the koran has fictional biblical legends?
David M
Well-Known Member
You won't get someone to say it was "copied" because that is your claim, "shared inspiration" or "derived from the same source" would be closer to what Islam claims.
2:136 & 5:44-50
Clearly states that the Quran is a continuation of the same theme of revelation that was given to the Jews and the Christians and thus shares the same mythology (but its the story of its interpretation that differs of course).
I have to agree.