FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
What was his last sermon?
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Basis for Trusting Muhammad?
- Thread starter Tumah
- Start date
What was his last sermon?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Like? You accept there is no evidence, but there still can be a tea-kettle orbiting the Earth? Is that what you mean?
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Prove that God does not exist. Better yet, don't even try. Any proof you might be able to come up with would be silly at best.
Tumah
Veteran Member
You'll have to ask a Baha'i about that as I don't know very much about them.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life#Origin. You got any better proof?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Then make a thread asking the Baha'i if they'll believe Baha'ullah if they were living at that era and
you can ask as well the Jews if they'll believe that God was the burning bush.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
That entire bunch of junk is based on assumptions made by men. I would think a Hindu would know better than to trust a bunch of men and their assumptions. You do realize of course that they change their philosophy in a major way every decade or so. What will they think 10 years from now? I can assure you it will be different from what they think today. If you will rest your faith on the ever changing words of men, what would your gods think about that?
Try this instead:
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Like? You accept there is no evidence, but there still can be a tea-kettle orbiting the Earth? Is that what you mean?
People didn't realize that viruses do exit, not having evidences at that time doesn't mean the virus
doesn't exist, and maybe there's other kind of living things that we can't yet recognize but that doesn't
mean if we don't know and see then it means doesn't exist, it isn't that simple.
First Baseman
Retired athlete
Furthermore, that doesn't prove anything about God or anything else for that matter.
None of that is proof against any deity. Maybe if you're arguing against a young earth creationist or whatever. You can definitely accept scientific findings and believe in God. I do.
Shad
Veteran Member
I don't.
No as Muhammad was not very successful in comparison to other well known generals. Alexander, Caesar, Charles Martel, Qin Shi Huang, Hannibal, Khalid ibn al-Walid, etc. He never expanded out of Arabia, which fall into civil war at his death.
Khalid ibn al-Walid was one of the primary general of the early Muslim expansion into Arabia, its revolts, conquests of Iraq and Syria. His record speaks for itself. Muhammad was a statesman far more often than as a general.
The environment, cultural and religious views, of Arabia at the time would have already conditioned me to accept success as a boon from God. Unless I was a hardline polytheist or Chalcedonian Christian I would have little reason to reject Muhammad. If I were a member of one the Jewish tribes of Arabia it could go either way.
Keep in mind that placing yourself into such a context that is drastically removed from our time but also has limited information we can use makes it difficulty to create a image without bias. The information we do have is usually from the upper class rather than the average person. This information can be easily tainted by a bias in which one is either a "supporter" or one of the "oppressed"
Tumah
Veteran Member
Its not the same. The question is why to believe the messenger. If "because he was a good person" is the answer, then there are many good people claiming to be messengers. Then why not believe the Bab? What's the difference?
Jews didn't believe Moses because of what he said. They believed Moses because they all recieved a prophecy from G-d that showed that Moses was a trustworthy prophet.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I don't think that's false and the point was mentioned by another poster. But I'm interested in hearing why Muslims today believe that Muhammad must have been a prophet. Whether its actually true or even pssible is irrelevant to me. I just want to know why.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
You said you don't know the story of the Bab and that we have to ask a Baha'i then how we could compare?
If they all received the prophecy then why the need for a prophet?
jonathan180iq
Well-Known Member
Prove that invisible Orange-bellied Flying Leprechauns do not exist...
See how you face the same problem?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
It doesn't work like that, God challenge us with what he created.
Create life by using the non-living matter and the story will end, no need to fetch for God
but for what he did, we have the earth and we have the intelligence, then prove it and create
a simple creature from the non-living matter..
First Baseman
Retired athlete
I get you. And that was my point. It can't be proved but only assumed.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What prophecy did Muhammad make ? Kindly quote the prophecy from Quran. Please
Regards
Last edited:
It seems to me that it works exactly like that. All the way up to the inherent contradiction of the subject that one is supposed to prove non-existence of.
What has this to do with expecting non-believers to have the duty to show that they have a reason or proof for disbelieving?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
A man comes from the top of a mountain and says that YHVH had talked with him from the fire in a bush.
If you were around in the time of Moses, on what basis would you believe he's telling the truth? Please
Regards