Christianity: Is "Holy Spirit" with Catholicism or Protestantism or with no Christian-denomination?

[Kenny]

"Presbyterians half the time prominently feature the Holy Spirit"

Sorry, I don't understand.
Is the Christian-Holy-Spirit, confused, please? Christian-Holy-Spirit says one thing to the Catholicism people and yet another thing to the Presbyterian-Protestantism people. Why can't Christian-Holy-Spirit unite them just in one truthful denomination, please?

Regards

can you please tell me who the Holy Spirit is to the Catholics and who is He to the Presbyterians?

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Holy Ghost" is not mentioned in the Judaism Torah, and Jesus and Mary were Judaism Torah followers. So, no Ghosts were believed by Jesus. This concept might have been imported from Paganism by Paul. This is my understanding, please. Regards

• Verses 12 and 13 of Psalm 51 read as follows, in English:
  • (5:12) "Create for me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
  • (5:13) "Do not cast me away from before You, and do not take Your holy spirit from me."
• Psalm 51 is in the book of Psalms, which is called Tehillim in the Hebrew Scriptures.
  • Tehillim is not in the Torah, which are the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.
• In ancient Greek, the phrase "Your holy spirit" is "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιόν σου".
• 
• Therefore, the belief that the concept of the "Holy Ghost" might have been imported from Paganism by Paul is nonsense.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

"Holy Ghost" is not mentioned in the Judaism Torah, and Jesus and Mary were Judaism Torah followers. So, no Ghosts were believed by Jesus. This concept might have been imported from Paganism by Paul. This is my understanding, please.

Regards

"spirits" without a physical body, are called ghosts.

If you disagree, you are free to explain the difference between a "ghost" and a "spirit".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

can you please tell me who the Holy Spirit is to the Catholics and who is He to the Presbyterians?

Isn't it strange that there is disagreement about that?

 

[Kenny]

Isn't it strange that there is disagreement about that?

Well... my wife use to be Catholic and now we are both Non-Denominational and I don't find any disagreement of who He is.

I suppose you didn't know that. That is why I asked the question.

So, in fact, nothing strange at all.

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Holy Ghost" is not mentioned in the Judaism Torah, and Jesus and Mary were Judaism Torah followers. So, no Ghosts were believed by Jesus.

• Verse 10 of the 63rd Chapter of the book of Isaiah reads as follows, in English:
  • "Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them."
  • To understand who's Holy Spirit was grieved, you have to begin reading at verse 7:
    • 7 I will tell of the kindnesses of the Lord,
      the deeds for which he is to be praised,
      according to all the Lord has done for us—
      yes, the many good things
      he has done for Israel,
      according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
      8 He said, “Surely they are my people,
      children who will be true to me”;
      and so he became their Savior.
      9 In all their distress he too was distressed,
      and the angel of his presence saved them.
      In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
      he lifted them up and carried them
      all the days of old.
      10 Yet they rebelled
      and grieved his Holy Spirit.
      So he turned and became their enemy
      and he himself fought against them.
    • That makes it clear that the Prophet Isaiah was saying that the people grieved the Holy Spirit of God.
• The Book of Isaiah is in the Hebrew Scriptures, but it is not one of the five books of the Torah. The Jews know that. Jesus knew that. Paul knew that. And now you know that.
  
• In ancient Greek, the phrase "his Holy Spirit" was "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον αὐτοῦ"
• 
• Therefore, Jesus did in fact acknowledge and believe in the Holy Ghost.

 

[Terry Sampson]

A trip down memory lane:

• I've been interested in the Presbyterians half the time prominently feature the Holy Spirit, well it highlights how Jesus was Called in his Baptism, it highlights the holy spirit led apostle Paul through Asia Minor, today Turkey, the Holy Spirit is claimed to directly be doing works. I am not sure about the 'personality' of the Holy Spirit.

• "Presbyterians half the time prominently feature the Holy Spirit" Sorry, I don't understand.Is the Christian-Holy-Spirit, confused, please? Christian-Holy-Spirit says one thing to the Catholicism people and yet another thing to the Presbyterian-Protestantism people. Why can't Christian-Holy-Spirit unite them just in one truthful denomination, please? Regards

• can you please tell me who the Holy Spirit is to the Catholics and who is He to the Presbyterians?

• Isn't it strange that there is disagreement about that?

• Well... my wife use to be Catholic and now we are both Non-Denominational and I don't find any disagreement of who He is. I suppose you didn't know that. That is why I asked the question. So, in fact, nothing strange at all.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well... my wife use to be Catholic and now we are both Non-Denominational and I don't find any disagreement of who He is.

I suppose you didn't know that. That is why I asked the question.

So, in fact, nothing strange at all.

If there was no disagreement about it, then you wouldn't have a need to ask the question.
The fact that you DO ask the question, means that you acknowledge that christians DO disagree about it.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Sorry, Allah is neither a physical or material being nor He has is a spirit. All physical, material and spirits are his creation. Allah is an attributive Being whose attributes are reflected in the Universe.

Aha!! Now I begin to understand your difficulty in making sense of the Christian concept of "the Holy Spirit." Rūḥ - Wikipedia
According to the Wikipedia article about the Islamic concept of "the Holy Spirt",

• Ruh al-qudus (Arabic: روح القدس‎, "the holy spirit" or "spirit of holiness"), al-ruh al-amin ("the faithful/trustworthy spirit"), and ruh (spirit) are Quranic expressions that describe a source or means of prophetic revelations, commonly identified with the angel Gabriel.[6][7][8] Quranic commentators disagreed in their identification of Gabriel with various uses of the word ruh.[8][9]
  
  The Arabic phrase "al-Qudus" (القدس) translates into English as "the Holy One" or "the Exalted One". "Al-Quddūs" is one of the 99 Names of God in Islam.[10]
• The phrase ruh al-qudus, commonly translated as the "holy spirit" or the "spirit of holiness", occurs four times in the Quran,[8] in sura 2 (Al-Baqara) ayat 87,[11] sura 2 (Al-Baqara) ayat 253,[12] sura 5 (Al-Ma'ida) ayat 110,[13] and sura 16 (An-Nahl) ayat 102.[14] In three instances, it is described as the means by which God "strengthened" Jesus, and in the fourth it is identified as the one brought down God's truth to his prophet.[8] Muslim commentators commonly connected this expression with the "faithful/trustworthy sprit" (al-ruh al-amin) who is said to have brought down the Quran in verse 26:193, and identified with Gabriel.[7][8] Other Muslim commentators viewed it as identical with the created spirit described in other Quranic verses as the means by which God brought Adam to life (e.g., 15:29), made Mary conceive Jesus 21:91 and inspired angels and prophets (e.g., 17:85).[8] The spirit who together with "the angels" descends and ascends to God (16:2, 70:4, 97:4) was also identified with Gabriel in Quranic commentaries. Thus, the figure of Gabriel became a focus of theological reflection on the content of revelation and the nature of cognition itself, with distinctions articulated between reason, prophetic revelation, and mystical knowledge.[15]
• The term Ruh al-Qudus is also an epithet referring to the Archangel Gabriel (called Jibral, Jibrīl, Jibrael, 'Džibril, Jabrilæ, Cebrail[16] or Jibrail (جبريل, جبرائيل, [dʒibræːʔiːl], [dʒibrɛ̈ʔiːl], or [dʒibriːl])),[17] who is related as the Angel of revelation and was assigned by God to reveal the Qur'an to the prophet Muhammad and who delivered the Annunciation to Mary.[18]
  
  In the two suras in which the Qur'an refers to the angel Gabriel, it does so by name.[19] However, some hadith and parts of the Qur'an may arguably lend support to the alternative view.
  
  It appears to be indicated by the Quran in sura Maryam ayat 16–21, that it was the angel Gabriel who gave to Mary the tidings that she was to have a son as a virgin:
  
  She chose to seclude herself (from her people); then we sent to her Our Spirit, and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (God) from you, if you do fear God." (The man) said: "I am only a messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son." She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?" He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for me (God): And (we wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from us (God), and it is a matter (already) decreed (by God).' " [Quran 19:17]
  
  It is narrated in hadith that the angel Gabriel accompanied Muhammad during the Mi'raj, an ascension to the heavens in which Muhammad is said to have met other messengers of God and was instructed about the manner of Islamic prayer (sujud). (Bukhari Sahih al-Bukhari, 1:8:345.) It is also held by Muslims that the angel Gabriel descends to Earth on the night of Laylat al-Qadr ("The Night of Fate"), a night in the last ten days of the holy month of Ramadan (Islamic calendar) which is said to be the night on which the Qur'an was first revealed.[20]

In the Christian Scriptures, the Holy Spirit that Jesus spoke of was from God the Father. It was NOT the angel Gabriel.

 

[paarsurrey]

Correct. Forget about the cats. That was my attempt at humor.
It seems to me that you are equally interested in answering

1. the question: "What is the Holy Spirit? i.e. what does that concept refer to?" and
2. the question: "Which Christians believe in the Holy Spirit?"

Regarding question #2, as far as I know all Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. There may be some people here in RF who call themselves Christians who do not acknowledge the Holy Spirit, but they are not traditional Christians. So, I'll let them speak for themselves.

It is also a fact that all Christians do not refer to the same thing when they say they acknowledge the Holy Spirit. Traditional Christians generally do refer to the same thing. Jehovah's Witnesses are not traditional Christians. I don't speak for them and I do not speak for anyone who says that I do describe their concept of the Holy Spirit.

Who do I think I can speak for? I think I can speak for Orthodox Christians, Catholic Christians, and some Protestant Christians, when I say that they (i.e. the traditional Christians) acknowledge the existence of the Holy Spirit and believe that the Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity.

"Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity."

Neither Moses mentioned this "Trinity" in Torah nor Jesus son of Mary- the follower of Moses' Law mentioned it.
Please quote from Moses and Jesus in a straightforward manner to support one's point of view about "Trinity".

Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Christianity: Is "Holy Spirit" with Catholicism or Protestantism or with no Christian-denomination, please?

Regards

_____________
#35

From what I have been told, at least some Protestants seem to think of Holy Spirit as, essentially, a name for the grace of God made manifest as wisdom and other moral virtues in actual people.

In that sense, I would think that not only most Trinitarian Christians but in fact most theists - including not only Muslims but even nearly all polytheists - hold very similar beliefs even if they do not necessarily use that name "Holy Spirit" to describe it.

Trinitarian Christians are such because they like to describe the Sacred in terms of the Trinity - God the Father, God the Son, God as the Holy Spirit. And while a huge deal is made of such a minor stylistic choice, ultimately it is indeed just a minor stylistic choice.

 

[paarsurrey]

• Verses 12 and 13 of Psalm 51 read as follows, in English:
  • (5:12) "Create for me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
  • (5:13) "Do not cast me away from before You, and do not take Your holy spirit from me."
• Psalm 51 is in the book of Psalms, which is called Tehillim in the Hebrew Scriptures.
  • Tehillim is not in the Torah, which are the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.
• In ancient Greek, the phrase "Your holy spirit" is "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιόν σου".
• View attachment 32018
• Therefore, the belief that the concept of the "Holy Ghost" might have been imported from Paganism by Paul is nonsense.

"Psalm"s

Psalms is not included in the five Law Books of Moses, please.
Kindly quote from Moses for "Trinity", please.

Regards

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity." Neither Moses mentioned this "Trinity" in Torah nor Jesus son of Mary- the follower of Torah mentioned it. Is this "Trinity" also imported from the Pagan-Christ and is made in Rome, please? Please quote from Moses and Jesus in a straightforward manner to support one's point of view about "Trinity". Regards

You know as well as I do that neither Moses nor Jesus mentioned "the Trinity".

Now tell me, if you can and will:

• Do you and/or Islam believe that Jesus of Nazareth
  • (a) was put to death by Roman soldiers? and
  • (b) was resurrected (i.e. raised from the dead)?
• Do you and/or Islam believe that the Hebrew Scriptures now in use by traditional Jews is a reliable text?
• Do you and/or Islam believe that the Christian Scriptures now in use by many Christians is a reliable text?
• Do you have or know where I can find a copy of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures that the Prophet Mohammed and his early Muslim followers used?

 

[Terry Sampson]

"Psalm"s Psalms is not included in the five Law Books of Moses, please.
Kindly quote from Moses for "Trinity", please.Regards

• Verses 12 and 13 of Psalm 51 read as follows, in English:
  • (5:12) "Create for me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.
  • (5:13) "Do not cast me away from before You, and do not take Your holy spirit from me."

• Psalm 51 is in the book of Psalms, which is called Tehillim in the Hebrew Scriptures.
  • Tehillim is not in the Torah, which are the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

• In ancient Greek, the phrase "Your holy spirit" is "τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιόν σου".

• 

• Therefore, the belief that the concept of the "Holy Ghost" might have been imported from Paganism by Paul is nonsense.

Show me where in my message to you I said that the Psalms are in the five Law Books of Moses. You can't. In fact, I specifically stated: "Tehillim [the Hebrew word for Psalms] is not in the Torah, which are the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Show me where in any message to you I said that Moses mentioned "the Trinity". You can't, because I've never said that. You know as well as I do that neither Moses nor Jesus ever mentioned the term "the Trinity." In fact, that's the first thing I wrote in my message #73 to you.

 

[Nakosis]

Well, did Jesus tell in a straightforward manner that "the holy spirit is just a impersonal force that emanates from God".
The JWs may/must answer this question if they have faith in Jesus and Jesus has anything to do with their denomination of Christendom. Else, they should/must not invent another religion in the name of Christ like Paul did, before. Right, please?

Regards

IMO, everyone creates a personal concept of God and alters their beliefs to fit it. Some, like Paul gets in in their heads that their personal ideas about God ought to be accepted by everyone else.

 

[Kenny]

A trip down memory lane:

I really don't see how one negates or changes the other.

 

[12jtartar]

Christianity: Is "Holy Spirit" with Catholicism or Protestantism or with no Christian-denomination, please?

Regards

_____________
#35

paarsurrey,
I have tried to give people on this site, some answers to questions like yours. Over and over I have been sanctioned for answering questions, on this site. They seem to want only people who make outlandish statements, and no one who can answer Bible questions. The rulers of this site say that I must say that it seems like, so and so, even though I Am quoting Bible Scripture.
You must put your request in hidden meanings.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

God IS a spirit. God is holy. God IS the only holy spirit.Not a separate "being" or "person". No other spirit is holy except God.

 

[paarsurrey]

You know as well as I do that neither Moses nor Jesus mentioned "the Trinity".

Now tell me, if you can and will:

• Do you and/or Islam believe that Jesus of Nazareth
  • (a) was put to death by Roman soldiers? and
  • (b) was resurrected (i.e. raised from the dead)?
• Do you and/or Islam believe that the Hebrew Scriptures now in use by traditional Jews is a reliable text?
• Do you and/or Islam believe that the Christian Scriptures now in use by many Christians is a reliable text?
• Do you have or know where I can find a copy of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures that the Prophet Mohammed and his early Muslim followers used?

"Do you and/or Islam believe that Jesus of Nazareth

• (a) was put to death by Roman soldiers? and
• (b) was resurrected (i.e. raised from the dead)?"

I understand that both (a) and (b) never happened, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Paarsurrey wrote:
"Holy Ghost" is not mentioned in the Judaism Torah, and Jesus and Mary were Judaism Torah followers. So, no Ghosts were believed by Jesus. This concept might have been imported from Paganism by Paul. This is my understanding, please.

paarsurrey said: ↑
"Holy Spirit is the third Person of the Trinity." Neither Moses mentioned this "Trinity" in Torah nor Jesus son of Mary- the follower of Torah mentioned it. Is this "Trinity" also imported from the Pagan-Christ and is made in Rome, please? Please quote from Moses and Jesus in a straightforward manner to support one's point of view about "Trinity".

Show me where in my message to you I said that the Psalms are in the five Law Books of Moses. You can't. In fact, I specifically stated: "Tehillim [the Hebrew word for Psalms] is not in the Torah, which are the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures.

Show me where in any message to you I said that Moses mentioned "the Trinity". You can't, because I've never said that. You know as well as I do that neither Moses nor Jesus ever mentioned the term "the Trinity." In fact, that's the first thing I wrote in my message #73 to you.

Judaism Torah consists of 5 book of Moses' Law. Psalms is not included in them.
Jesus son of Mary (not the Pagan-Christ) followed Law of Moses.

Regards