There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sgt. Pepper]

"You were never a Christian." is nothing more than the True Scotsman Fallacy in disguise, and that's one of the most pathetic excuses I've seen Christians use to defend Christianity or use to defend Christians in general. It's honestly no wonder that Christianity is deeply divided and rampant dissension among Christians hasn't changed since the religion began. What else can be expected when some Christians accuse other Christians, or former Christians, of not being genuine believers? The saying, "Christians eat their own," is true. It's also true that Christians are often their own worst enemies. They can't even agree on what the Bible actually teaches, but they still like to insist that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. The fact is, if you ask a diverse group of Christians (Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, Mormons) the same theological question, you'll be told different answers to the same question, and all of these Christians will use the Bible to justify their answer, despite the fact that their answers are very different or even conflicting.

Is salvation unconditional or conditional?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is speaking in tongues evidence that a person is saved?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Does a person have be immersed in water or sprinkled with water to be baptized?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Will there be a Rapture of the Christian Church or not?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

When will this Rapture of the Christian Church happen?

Is salvation unconditional or conditional?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is speaking in tongues evidence that a person is saved?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Does a person have be immersed in water or sprinkled with water to be baptized?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Will there be a Rapture of the Christian Church or not?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

When will this Rapture of the Christian Church happen?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Can women have spiritual authority over men, and can a woman be a pastor of a church?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Of course it's the Bible that is the problem if thousands or millions of people disagree with each other about what it says.

I mean you read it before and still don’t know what a lot of it means. That’s not the Bible’s problem, a lot of people take what others say about the Bible without looking into and studying it for themselves. Still drinking milk, or leaving it on a shelf.

 

[ElishaElijah]

"You were never a Christian." is nothing more than the True Scotsman Fallacy in disguise, and that's one of the most pathetic excuses I've seen Christians use to defend Christianity or use to defend Christians in general. It's honestly no wonder that Christianity is deeply divided and rampant dissension among Christians hasn't changed since the religion began when Christians are accusing other Christians, or former Christians, of not being genuine believers. Christians can't even agree on what the Bible actually teaches, but they still like to insist that Christianity is the only true religion in the world. The old saying that "Christians eat their own" is true. Christians really are their own worst enemies.

Is salvation unconditional or conditional?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is speaking in tongues evidence that a person is saved?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Does a person have be immersed in water or sprinkled with water to be baptized?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Will there be a Rapture of the Christian Church or not?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

When will this Rapture of the Christian Church happen?

Is salvation unconditional or conditional?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Is speaking in tongues evidence that a person is saved?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Does a person have be immersed in water or sprinkled with water to be baptized?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Will there be a Rapture of the Christian Church or not?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

When will this Rapture of the Christian Church happen?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

Can women have spiritual authority over men, and can a woman be a pastor of a church?

The answer depends on which Christians you ask.

How about go to the Bible for the answers

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Which Bible? Is it the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon, or the Greek Orthodox Bible, or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon that rejects the seven books that are in the Catholic Bible and the extra books in the Greek Orthodox Bible? If it's the Protestant Bible, then which version is more accurate? Is it the King James Version or one of the many other English versions of the Bible? Or should the Bible only be read in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, so a devout Christian can be certain of its authenticity?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Which Bible? Is it the Catholic Bible, with a 73-book canon, or the Greek Orthodox Bible, or the Protestant Bible, with a 66-book canon that rejects the seven books that are in the Catholic Bible and the extra books in the Greek Orthodox Bible? If it's the Protestant Bible, then which version is more accurate? Is it the King James Version or one of the many other English versions of the Bible? Or should the Bible only be read in its original languages of Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, so a devout Christian can be certain of its authenticity?

The Bible is in Hebrew and Greek so you can look at the original words when you study. I use multiple versions and a concordance. I found that Scripture interprets Scripture and when the Scriptures say a plain meaning seek no other sense. The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Scriptures and He shows me the true from the false, easy to spot the false teachers and deceivers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible is in Hebrew and Greek so you can look at the original words when you study. I use multiple versions and a concordance. I found that Scripture interprets Scripture and when the Scriptures say a plain meaning seek no other sense. The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit is the teacher of the Scriptures and He shows me the true from the false, easy to spot the false teachers and deceivers.

"Scripture interprets scripture" is all to often used to interpret the Bible to try to make it say what one wants it to say. And no the "Holy Spirit" claims is just more prejudicial nonsense. If there was such a spirit guiding translation then we would see much more agreement among Christians and not the 40,000 different sects that exist today. Granted, the difference between many of them is rather small. That is found with any large population, but you will find gradational changes to all sorts of extreme views.

If one understands what the authors of the Bible wrote it is clearly not anti-abortion.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Scripture interprets scripture" is all to often used to interpret the Bible to try to make it say what one wants it to say. And no the "Holy Spirit" claims is just more prejudicial nonsense. If there was such a spirit guiding translation then we would see much more agreement among Christians and not the 40,000 different sects that exist today. Granted, the difference between many of them is rather small. That is found with any large population, but you will find gradational changes to all sorts of extreme views.

If one understands what the authors of the Bible wrote it is clearly not anti-abortion.

All this is just nonsense, you fail to use any Scripture against a particular teaching but continue on pushing your fallacy. Many people think differently about the Bible, you say. When asked to examine those supposed contradictions and differences against the Bible? Where are they? Like you said they may be rather small differences like about food or drink. Fasting and Prayer. Don’t you think the Bible addresses these issues? A lot of freedom in these things and that’s even written how to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All this is just nonsense, you fail to use any Scripture against a particular teaching but continue on pushing your fallacy. Many people think differently about the Bible, you say. When asked to examine those supposed contradictions and differences against the Bible? Where are they? Like you said they may be rather small differences like about food or drink. Fasting and Prayer. Don’t you think the Bible addresses these issues? A lot of freedom in these things and that’s even written how to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Nope, the nonsense does not come from me.

And I did not even bring up the countless contradictions in the Bible. One thing that you should remember is that lame attempts to explain weak excuses for them do not count as refutations. The difference that I was talking about is how individual verses are interpreted.

Too bad that you cannot find a reliable way to interpret the Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope, the nonsense does not come from me.

And I did not even bring up the countless contradictions in the Bible. One thing that you should remember is that lame attempts to explain weak excuses for them do not count as refutations. The difference that I was talking about is how individual verses are interpreted.

Too bad that you cannot find a reliable way to interpret the Bible.

I’m not the one with a problem interpreting the Bible or hearing from God, you are.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

"Scripture interprets scripture" is all to often used to interpret the Bible to try to make it say what one wants it to say. And no the "Holy Spirit" claims is just more prejudicial nonsense. If there was such a spirit guiding translation then we would see much more agreement among Christians and not the 40,000 different sects that exist today. Granted, the difference between many of them is rather small. That is found with any large population, but you will find gradational changes to all sorts of extreme views.

If one understands what the authors of the Bible wrote it is clearly not anti-abortion.

There are charismatic Christians who believe that if a Christian doesn't speak in tongues, then they don't have the Holy Spirit. There are Pentecostal Christians who ascribe to the "Full Gospel" movement and believe that the Holy Spirit is still doing exactly the same things that he did during the New Testament gospels. There are Christians who believe that a person has to be baptized in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit, while other Christians believe that a believer receives the Holy Spirit the moment they are saved. As you can plainly see, this whole "Holy Spirit" claim doesn't hold water. If you ask a diverse group of Christians the exact same question about the Bible, you'll be told different answers depending on the Christians you ask. In fact, Calvinism vs. Arminianism is a good example.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m not the one with a problem interpreting the Bible or hearing from God, you are.

Nope. One of your difficulties is that you have a preset personal version of God. I can read what the writers meant to say since it makes not difference to me either way. I do not make the same false assumptions that you do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are charismatic Christians who believe that if a Christian doesn't speak in tongues, then they don't have the Holy Spirit. There are Pentecostal Christians who ascribe to the "Full Gospel" movement and believe that the Holy Spirit is still doing exactly the same things that he did during the New Testament gospels. There are Christians who believe that a person has to be baptized in order to be filled with the Holy Spirit, while other Christians believe that a believer receives the Holy Spirit the moment they are saved. As you can plainly see, this whole "Holy Spirit" claim doesn't hold water. If you ask a diverse group of Christians the exact same question about the Bible, you'll be told different answers depending on the Christians you ask.

Well that is only because everyone else is wrong and they are right By the way you can't get more "right" than this group:

https://www.godhatesfags.com/

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Well that is only because everyone else is wrong and they are right By the way you can't get more "right" than this group:

https://www.godhatesfags.com/

Oh good grief. I forgot about these Christians.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope. One of your difficulties is that you have a preset personal version of God. I can read what the writers meant to say since it makes not difference to me either way. I do not make the same false assumptions that you do.

The only verse that been brought up so far we have agreed on, why? Because we opened up the Bible, presented a verse, found out it meant what it said.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The only verse that been brought up so far we have agreed on, why? Because we opened up the Bible, presented a verse, found out it meant what it said.

Hopefully we will not agree on everything, but we will agree on some verses. Don't be so quick with the logical fallacy of a Hasty Generalization.

 

[Sheldon]

And you can test these differences against what the Bible says and means to get the proper application, or reject the false teaching. It’s not the Bible that’s the problem it’s people that for whatever reason change the meaning or make up their own definitions.

The other 45k sects and denominations would say exactly the same thing, and all think they're right. Of course the bible is a problem, believers just don't see it.

 

[Sheldon]

When asked to examine those supposed contradictions and differences against the Bible? Where are they?

“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4

“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10

“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30

“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18

“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26

“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19

“…thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. ” — Exodus 21:23-25

“…ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” — Matthew 5:39

“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20

“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5

“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1

That'll do for starters, let the hand waving and goal post shifting commence.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That'll do for starters, let the hand waving and goal post shifting commence.

Why would the hand waving and goal post shifting commence?

 

[Sheldon]

I’m not the one with a problem interpreting the Bible or hearing from God, you are.

You didn't even know the names assigned the gospels were fictitious? So this attempt to set yourself up as an authority, though predictable, is not very compelling, you even tried to claim the gospels contained eye witness testimony, even though there are no contemporary accounts of anything Jesus is alleged to have said or done.

 

[ElishaElijah]

You didn't even know the names assigned the gospels were fictitious?

Because they aren’t fictitious, are you saying there are no such people?