There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Subduction Zone]

Another problem in your thinking is that God does some weird thing when He is practical and just heals you and feeds you. Don’t you see how Jesus lived?

Why attribute something from a God that does not require a God?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Why attribute something from a God that does not require a God?

Because it took God an instant to deliver me from my addictions and I told you how that happened. You keep trying to change my testimony to meet with your unbelief and skepticism.
A lot of people struggle all their lives, some don’t ever recover.
I’m sorry you haven’t known Jesus Christ, got it all together and don’t need Him or want anything to do with Him.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because it took God an instant to deliver me from my addictions and I told you how that happened. You keep trying to change my testimony to meet with your unbelief and skepticism.
A lot of people struggle all their lives, some don’t ever recover.
I’m sorry you haven’t known Jesus Christ, got it all together and don’t need Him or want anything to do with Him.

When have I tried to change that? You may be conflating me with someone else. I simply do not believe that claim. Didn't you claim once a long time ago that you were getting psychological help as well? Or perhaps that was someone else. Did you get any medical aid in dealing with your addiction?

And yes, many people never recover. Many people do. So what?

 

[ElishaElijah]

When have I tried to change that? You may be conflating me with someone else. I simply do not believe that claim. Didn't you claim once a long time ago that you were getting psychological help as well? Or perhaps that was someone else. Did you get any medical aid in dealing with your addiction?

And yes, many people never recover. Many people do. So what?

You have me mixed up with someone else. I told you many times, my deliverance was instant, God is the one who did the healing and didn’t need medication. I’m not on any medication. My testimony is true and accurate. What you do with that information is up to you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have me mixed up with someone else. My testimony is true and accurate. What you do with that information is up to you.

Maybe we are both mixed up a bit. As to your testimony being accurate and true, you may believe that but it is still highly dubious. People often change their memories of events as time passes. They can't help it. That means that even if the facts of the matter may be different a person can be wrong about his or her past and not be lying.

 

[Riders]

I believe in the Christian and all other Holy texts and the bible, I think it has wisdom in it, so this is another reason I believe.

 

[ppp]

Have you been born again? If not you have no idea.
If you had been born again or if you ever are then you would know how ridiculous your statement is. When a person is born again it isn’t a figment of your imagination or a feeling. God gives you His Spirit and He starts to speak to you, His Word comes alive, you are changed, He gives you differ desires, you see things different because you are a new person. Only a person who has never been born again would say there is no God.

No reason to believe that you know what you are talking about.

 

[Sheldon]

Meant to say don’t know anything false in the Bible.

The Noah flood myth, the Exodus myth, many aspects of the Genesis creation myth. The names assigned the gospels are fictional, Mathew Mark Luke and John.

 

[Sheldon]

Meant to say don’t know anything false in the Bible.

We know that Genesis is myth, the Exodus is myth. Believing that they are literally true causes all sorts of theological problems.

Well this is still last years conversation and not interested.

So you make a claim, it is refuted, and you say you're not interested in the refutation, priceless. I always wonder why anyone bothers to enter a debate when they clearly are not remotely interested in debating anything.

 

[Sheldon]

What’s the different opinion?

It doesn't matter, the fact that the bible has produced 45k varyingly different sects and denominations, is objective evidence it is not reliable. You can argue your version with the other 44999 Christian sects, I don't care, as I don't believe any of them are objective evidence for any deity. It simply an objective fact that a reliable source would not produce 45k varyingly different sects and denominations.

 

[Sheldon]

Have you been born again? If not you have no idea.

No true Scotsman fallacy, the sheer volume of logical fallacies you use speaks volumes.

When a person is born again it isn’t a figment of your imagination or a feeling. God gives you His Spirit and He starts to speak to you, His Word comes alive, you are changed, He gives you differ desires, you see things different because you are a new person.

Begging the question fallacies, sigh.

Only a person who has never been born again would say there is no God.

No true Scotsman fallacy again... your posts are relentlessly irrational.

 

[Sheldon]

So you are just saying there are differences but don’t know what they are.

Are you saying you're version is right, and all the others wrong and you don't even know what the other versions are?

It doesn't matter anyway, as the fact there are 45k varyingly different sects and denominations shows the bible is not a reliable source, and this is obviously true even if any one of them could definitively prove their version the right one, this would remain true. You are still failing to under this simple fact, no one is arguing about which version, if any, is correct, as that is irrelevant to the point that the bible is not a reliable source.

 

[Sheldon]

Because it took God an instant to deliver me from my addictions and I told you how that happened. You keep trying to change my testimony to meet with your unbelief and skepticism.

You told us what you believed happened, your anecdotal claim has no explanatory powers that is self evident. You can call it a testimony, but it is just a claim that a deity was involved, and as has been explained, many people make profound changes in their lives, and claim a deity different to yours did it, or a different version of the Christian deity did it, or no deity at all was involved.

You don't seem to have any cogent response to those facts, beyond sheer repetition of your claim.

 

[joelr]

A person has to be born again or they aren’t a believer John 3

Sounds like you have been indoctrinated into a "born again" cult. You have it backwards, when someone believes all the mythology in the gospels then that is "born again". They buy into needing a savior demigod (in this case Jesus), buy into the "you are a sinner" baloney, and all the other myths associated with the Jewish version of the Greek salvation demigod.
There is no place where it says one has to say the words "born again", that is an assumption of the born again cults.
It mentions spirit and water. We have covered what "spirit entails" and water is baptism. Another Greek invention that the earlier salvation religions also used.


-
"Baptism has been widely compared with initiation into the Mystery cults. In many of the Mysteries purification through ritual bathing was required as a prerequisite for initiation.
It is interesting to note that the early Christian writer Tertullian (c. 160-225CE) would not have agreed with this appraisal. Not only did he believe that certain of the Mysteries practiced baptism, but also that they did so in hope of attaining forgiveness of sins and a new birth. This was so striking a similarity that it clearly demanded some form of explanation. Not surprisingly, demonic imitation was the culprit.

The Nations, who are strangers to all understandings of spiritual powers, ascribe to their idols the imbuing of waters with the self-same efficacy. But they cheat themselves with waters that are widowed. For washing is the channel through which they are initiated into some sacred rites...of some notorious Isis or Mithras...at the Appolianrian or Eleusinian games they are baptised and they presume that the effect of their doing is their regeneration and the remission of the penalties due to their perjuries.

Another area where some have seen a link between Christian baptism and the Mystery religions concerns the Taurobolium associated with the cult of Cybele and Attis. "

. If a person is saying now there is no God and say they were a Christian once then they had to know God existed and had a relationship with Him. The 2 don’t mix, can’t have it both ways.

NO they absolutely do mix, I have demonstrated how this is possible. You are either not actually listening to the discussion because you are just here to read a script or you haven't comprehended a very simple argument.
Islamic fundamentalists claim they have a very real, personal and intense relationship with Allah. I have even provided examples. Hindu often have the same personal relationship with Krishna. I have provided examples.
Yet these are not real deities. So it is therefore clearly possible to have a relationship with a fictional deity. It takes place in your mind. Which is also where relationships mostly take place with real people as well. If you think a deity is real your mind will generate expected emotions and all sorts of emotional reactions will happen. As we see with Islam and Hinduism. Or do you need more examples?

An atheist who said they were a Christian weren’t really ever born again or they would be an apostate, still know there is a God, but would have rejected Jesus as their King.
So is a person born again by doing some works or is that a gift from God through Jesus Christ?

Just like a Muslim or Hindu can realize their deity isn't real so can a Christian. We have already gone over all this, with many examples.

Let's refresh your memory.

"What is your personal relationship to Sri Krishna?"
-For me he is my brother who had always been with me in every situation let it be those nights when I had to finish my school projects staying up late at night or those when I was too afraid to have a debate (I had stage fear). He had been encouraging me every now and then and I can both feel and enjoy his presence which feels great to me . He had been trying hard to make me happy which I like actually . But for me he is the only one to stay with me and keep on encouraging me to take up new things


-My personal relationship with Sri Krishna is one of unflinching faith and absolute surrender. I see him as a Guru in the Bhagvad Gita, sharing the wisdom that is needed to lead our lives. I see him as a parent who has set an ideal example for us to follow and who is ever forgiving towards our sins. Krishna is the saviour I call upon when in distress and the friend I share my joy with. He is the hope in my prayer, the courage in my actions and the triumph in my success.

-The thought of Krishna being fake never came to my mind because I always knew that he is real and i still know that he’s not just a myth, He is completely real. So i wasn’t really a devotee after all. I used to behave like a prostitute trying to seduce guys in my school always. I used to have relations with multiple boys at once. I just feel like crying to death when I think about the old me. However, this lockdown changed me completely, I’m no longer like that anymore. Wanna know how? Well, during the lockdown, I started watching the repeat telecast of a pretty old serial produced by Ramanand Sagar ji. It was ‘Ramayan’. After I finished watching that, I started watching Shri Krishna and my and kanha’s love story starts here. I became his devotee and i just couldn’t stop thinking about him all day long this happened more than an year ago. I started reading Srila Prabhupada ji’s books and my love for Krishna started getting even more intense after that. I am a completely different person now I am not the old me anymore and I am very happy about this, My elder sister calls me an old lady because I am a devotee of krishna and she believes that devotion is meant for aged people only. For me krishna is my Sakha, My lover, My life, My soul, The only one I am alive for. I love you Krishna. Hare krishna!!

-
Hare Krishna

My relationship with Krishna

You know , even sometimes I sit and think

What he is to me ?

Is he a brother who is always ready to help me in any situation ?
Is he a father who always supports me ?
Is he a friend who understands me more than anyone ?
And the answer I got was

• I tied rakhi to him . That day he promised me to be ready to help me in any situation as a brother .
• I promised him to live only with him for my whole life . That day he promised me to be a lover and love me till eternity .
• I lost my father in December 2020 and I missed the support of my father . That day he promised me to always support me as a father .
• The day I found myself to be all alone and not found anyone to share my feelings . That day he promised me to be my Best friend .

He is my everything . And above all I am HIS .

I am his servant who wants to serve Radhakrishna's lotus feet .

So I have Sakhya and Dasya ( which is very important ) for him .

Mostly I love him as My love / Friend .

Radhe Radhe

Your devotee friend ,

_Krishnee


Clearly these people take this very seriously and are 100% convinced Krishna is in their life.


I was certain as well. But I realized what I thought was certainty was a psychological trick. The host of Atheist Experience was studying to be a Baptist Minister when he decided to learn more about the historical aspects so he could defend the religion better. Like Bart Ehrman he realized it's just a story and not supported by evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

See that’s the problem, someone tells you what they did or what happened, you weren’t there yet make up a version of your own.

No. The actual problem is that you are taking outlandish extra-ordinary claims and then try to make them analogous to mega-mundane claims.

"i bought a sandwich" vs "i witnessed an outlandish supernatural / magical event".

These are not in the same category.
I'm sorry if you can't understand that.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Another problem in your thinking is that God does some weird thing when He is practical and just heals you and feeds you. Don’t you see how Jesus lived?

No, I don't see "how jesus lived" because all we have on the dude are biased religious scriptures that give him magical powers.

The kind of claims that YOU yourself would dismiss at face value in any other context.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No, he was trying to illustrate to you why the sort of claims that you make require extraordinary evidence. If someone just claimed that went to the store and bought a sandwich the burden of proof for that claim is so low as to need little to no substantiation. Your God beliefs are more akin to the claim that you went to the store and a ghost gave you a magic sandwich. For that claim very strong evidence would be needed.

He/she just doesn't understand that.
Or doesn't want to.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because it took God an instant to deliver me from my addictions and I told you how that happened. You keep trying to change my testimony to meet with your unbelief and skepticism.
A lot of people struggle all their lives, some don’t ever recover.
I’m sorry you haven’t known Jesus Christ, got it all together and don’t need Him or want anything to do with Him.

Reminds me of this article I read the other day.

A 7-year old who suffered from leukemia for several years. He was in very bad shape. For nearly 2 years, it was constantly in and out of the hospital. Treatment after treatment. A full team of oncologists and nurses taking care of the boy.

Then he was found to be cancer-free.

The mother's reaction: "Finally! My prayers have been answered! Glory to God!!! Thank you Jesus!"

 

[Sheldon]

Reminds me of this article I read the other day.

A 7-year old who suffered from leukemia for several years. He was in very bad shape. For nearly 2 years, it was constantly in and out of the hospital. Treatment after treatment. A full team of oncologists and nurses taking care of the boy.

Then he was found to be cancer-free.

The mother's reaction: "Finally! My prayers have been answered! Glory to God!!! Thank you Jesus!"

We could do a lot worse than teach children at a young age what a common logical fallacy is, and what it means to use one. Then so many people would not grow up and reel of post hoc ergo propter fallacies like that one, it's a mainstay of the selectin bias used to validate prayer of course.

 

[Sheldon]

I don’t know if these people you’re talking about are or aren’t believers. The differences could be between carpet color for all I know.

So you admit there is a difference, 45k in fact. Again you seem determined to miss this point and focus what the difference is, rather the fact there are so many differences, and of course what all those 45k varyingly different sects and denominations mean for your claim the bible is a reliable source.