There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[ElishaElijah]

They had to believe god existed and believed to have a relationship with this being whom they believed existed. And at the time, they might have also (incorrectly) used the word "know" instead of "believe" - just like you are doing here.

And now they just don't believe that anymore.
Obviously when looking back on it, they will no longer use the word "know", since they realize today it was just a belief and now believe it to be a wrong belief at that.

Have you been born again? If not you have no idea.
If you had been born again or if you ever are then you would know how ridiculous your statement is. When a person is born again it isn’t a figment of your imagination or a feeling. God gives you His Spirit and He starts to speak to you, His Word comes alive, you are changed, He gives you differ desires, you see things different because you are a new person. Only a person who has never been born again would say there is no God.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Ask the millions of christians that you say aren't "real christians".

So you are just saying there are differences but don’t know what they are.

 

[ElishaElijah]

This is as backwards as it gets. And it all comes down to you being extremely confused about the terms "know" and "believe".

And you are showing how much you are really confused about these things.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Have you been born again?

No, I have never been religious.
I know people who have gone through such episodes though.
At the time, they were saying the same things you are now.
They don't anymore.

If not you have no idea.

As a matter of fact, I'ld say that have a much better idea as an impartial third party as opposed to you, who's obviously biased and entrenched in your way of thinking, out of religious motivation.

If you had been born again or if you ever are then you would know how ridiculous your statement is. When a person is born again it isn’t a figment of your imagination or a feeling.

It is a belief.

God gives you His Spirit and He starts to speak to you, His Word comes alive, you are changed, He gives you differ desires, you see things different because you are a new person.

Yes. As experienced by every seriously religious person from any religion - including the 99.99% of all religions that you yourself don't believe in. Which includes thousands of christian denomination that you undoubtedly are branding as "not REAL christianity".

Beliefs can be very real to the believer.

Only a person who has never been born again would say there is no God.

As well as persons who were once "born again" and don't believe it anymore.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So you are just saying there are differences but don’t know what they are.

The very fact that you are saying of millions of christians (and ex-christians) that they aren't (or weren't) "real christians" is the proof that there are differences, as those millions of christians themselves very much consider themselves to be "real christians".

I don't need to know what the differences are specifically. It doesn't matter. The differences necessarily exist or you wouldn't call them "not REAL christians".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

And you are showing how much you are really confused about these things.

But curiously, you forget to say why and how.

Again: you are using "know" while you should be using "believe".

What you have are beliefs. Not knowledge.
Knowledge is demonstrable.

Knowledge is a subset of belief.

Can you explain in your own words what the difference is?
I bet you can't. Or won't.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The very fact that you are saying of millions of christians (and ex-christians) that they aren't (or weren't) "real christians" is the proof that there are differences, as those millions of christians themselves very much consider themselves to be "real christians".

I don’t know if these people you’re talking about are or aren’t believers. The differences could be between carpet color for all I know.

 

[ElishaElijah]

As a matter of fact, I'ld say that have a much better idea as an impartial third party as opposed to you, who's obviously biased and entrenched in your way of thinking, out of religious motivation.

Of course you think you do, that’s the claim of most unbelievers on RF, yet the demonstration of this doesn’t show it’s a reality.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don’t know if these people you’re talking about are or aren’t believers. The differences could be between carpet color for all I know.

Backpaddling much?

Also, I'm talking about the people YOU were talking about, when you called them "not REAL christians".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course you think you do, that’s the claim of most unbelievers on RF, yet the demonstration of this doesn’t show it’s a reality.

I've been explaining to you with arguments and detail how you are wrong about the things you say.
I've been explaining to you the difference between belief and knowledge.
I've been giving you example after example of how people of all kinds of religions believe as firmly as you do.

All I got from you is the equivalent of "na-hah!!!!"

You are so entrenched in your religious beliefs that you can't even imagine anymore what it's like not to believe in your religion.

That's a limitation in your reasoning process, not mine.

I suggest you take a step back, take a deep breath and have some self-reflection.


It's a bit unsettling imo that you can't for the life of you realize how arrogant you are being here by simply declaring that anybody that isn't a fundamentalist today yet was a fundamentalist in the past, was not a "real fundamentalist" simply because they are no longer a fundamentalist today.

It's mindboggling.

Maybe you should listen to Matt Dilahunty's story one of these days.
This is a guy who was extremely entrenched in a fundamentalist baptist church for over 25 years and was studying to become a pastor.

Back then, he talked exactly like you are doing now. Also using the word "know" instead of "believe". Also being judgemental against all christians that weren't to his liking or who didn't follow his particular flavor of christianity and calling them "not REAL christians".

And then over the years he changed his mind.

A concept that you seem to not really grasp: changing one's mind.

You should try and be a bit less dogmatic in your ways.
Clearly you have the mental equivalent of horse blinders on.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I've been explaining to you with arguments and detail how you are wrong about the things you say.
I've been explaining to you the difference between belief and knowledge.
I've been giving you example after example of how people of all kinds of religions believe as firmly as you do.

All I got from you is the equivalent of "na-hah!!!!"

You are so entrenched in your religious beliefs that you can't even imagine anymore what it's like not to believe in your religion.

That's a limitation in your reasoning process, not mine.

I suggest you take a step back, take a deep breath and have some self-reflection.


It's a bit unsettling imo that you can't for the life of you realize how arrogant you are being here by simply declaring that anybody that isn't a fundamentalist today yet was a fundamentalist in the past, was not a "real fundamentalist" simply because they are no longer a fundamentalist today.

It's mindboggling.

Maybe you should listen to Matt Dilahunty's story one of these days.
This is a guy who was extremely entrenched in a fundamentalist baptist church for over 25 years and was studying to become a pastor.

Back then, he talked exactly like you are doing now. Also using the word "know" instead of "believe". Also being judgemental against all christians that weren't to his liking or who didn't follow his particular flavor of christianity and calling them "not REAL christians".

And then over the years he changed his mind.

A concept that you seem to not really grasp: changing one's mind.

You should try and be a bit less dogmatic in your ways.
Clearly you have the mental equivalent of horse blinders on.

This is me- I went to the store and bought a sandwich and a drink.
Your reply- You don’t know that, you only believe you did.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Backpaddling much?

Also, I'm talking about the people YOU were talking about, when you called them "not REAL christians".

It’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You really are quite delusional. Did you come up with this by yourself or did you get help from someone without a body that wants to use yours?
Already posted how God delivered me from Drugs,
Alcohol, sexual sins, every single addiction.
Then my sins were forgiven by Jesus Christ and I received His Spirit and Eternal Life. I have power over the things that had me in bondage, even the fear of death. I have a clear conscience, I have great promises from God and a good inheritance. So yeah I have hope and strength for this life and the next.
What do you have?

You delivered yourself from addiction. You should give yourself a pat on the back because that isn't easy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't believe it is an ad populum argument. It is an argument for repeatability. If one person makes a claim, he could be daffy but millions of claims accrues credibility.

Not without some sort of demonstration, they don't. A million anecdotes are still just anecdotes.

Thousands of people claim to have been abducted by aliens. That doesn't make the claim true.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is me- I went to the store and bought a sandwich and a drink.
Your reply- You don’t know that, you only believe you did.

Nope.

This is you:
- I thought of going to the store to get a sandwich but instead a ghost appeared and it gave me a magic sandwich

My reply:
- ..... mkay. So where's this ghost and sandwich?

you:
- ...... you gotta have faith


me:
- sorry, I don't.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It’s what I’ve been saying from the beginning.

Yes, and I'm pointing out the arrogance of such a position.

Clearly it's all going over your head.

I mean, you even compared claims of supernatural faith based stuff to something as mundane as getting a sandwich....

Clearly this is not going to go anywhere.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't believe it is an ad populum argument. It is an argument for repeatability. If one person makes a claim, he could be daffy but millions of claims accrues credibility.

That is literally an ad populum argument.

"many believe it, therefor it has credibility"

Substituting "believe" with "claim" doesn't change the crux of it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Nope.

This is you:
- I thought of going to the store to get a sandwich but instead a ghost appeared and it gave me a magic sandwich

My reply:
- ..... mkay. So where's this ghost and sandwich?

you:
- ...... you gotta have faith


me:
- sorry, I don't.

See that’s the problem, someone tells you what they did or what happened, you weren’t there yet make up a version of your own.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yes, and I'm pointing out the arrogance of such a position.

Clearly it's all going over your head.

I mean, you even compared claims of supernatural faith based stuff to something as mundane as getting a sandwich....

Clearly this is not going to go anywhere.

Another problem in your thinking is that God does some weird thing when He is practical and just heals you and feeds you. Don’t you see how Jesus lived?

 

[Subduction Zone]

See that’s the problem, someone tells you what they did or what happened, you weren’t there yet make up a version of your own.

No, he was trying to illustrate to you why the sort of claims that you make require extraordinary evidence. If someone just claimed that went to the store and bought a sandwich the burden of proof for that claim is so low as to need little to no substantiation. Your God beliefs are more akin to the claim that you went to the store and a ghost gave you a magic sandwich. For that claim very strong evidence would be needed.