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- Thread starter Jimmy
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mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
I don't know and I don¨t care.
Jimmy
King Phenomenon
Aw, must you be so nasty? Haha.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
No, I know nothing about Jesus' resurrection or not and I don't care one way or the other. I am honest. Do you want me to lie or what?
syo
Well-Known Member
Lies.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Physical resurrection or Ascension of Jesus- the truthful Israelite Messiah, never took place, isn't it a misconception of the Christians people who have been mislead by the Hellenist Paul, please?
Regards
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that Jesus was resurrected physically.
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
I agree and concur with my fellow RF posters. Jesus did not raise from the dead. However, that does not mean he wasn't special and unique in many ways. He may be the prime example of ancient human extropy and he raised a religion with over two billion people strong now. That to me means more than being raised from the dead. The legend is strong and continues to this day.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't believe it happened either but even it it did happen it would be no big deal. So what if a body rose from the dead?
I find it rather ironic that Christians make such a big deal out of the bodily resurrection, given these verses:
John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Nothing. It didn't occur.
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
Interesting points. I think it's worth noting that John is widely understood to have been a later forgery, and it wasn't accepted as a part of official canon for centuries. There was a good length of time for the Church and its heresiologists to form its doctrine without reference to John. I think what you're pointing out here is potentially a sort of doctrinal anachronism.
The response that the Church made up to resolve this blatant contradiction is that Jesus wasn't risen in the flesh, but in a "spiritual body." I can't help but imagine that means a body made out of ectoplasm or aether or something, but later occultists called it the "body of light" and equated it with the "subtle body" found in Eastern esotericism.
Of course, the idea that Jesus rose in a body of light seems extraordinarily less likely to me than him simply walking out of his tomb alive after being crucified. The former relies on way more unproven assumptions and mechanisms that I am aware of no good evidence for, whereas the latter is strange but could potentially be explained in a number of ways.
Of course, "God did it" is very low on the list of likely explanations for an apparent flesh-and-blood resurrection of Jesus, too. So I have to agree, so what if a body rose from the dead? Even if it happened, it does not prove anything. I just think it's a moot point because it's an obviously mythical account and we know myths do not literally happen.
If it really did happen then Christianity would be true
Which I think would be good news
I don't know whether or not it did actually happen, I wasn't there...
But I don't think it would be a waste of my life for me to live my life as though it did happen
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
Does the physical resurrection entail the truth of Christianity?
I think this only makes sense if "Christianity" is only the belief that Jesus rose from the dead, or if you're defining "resurrection" in a way that inherently implies that he was risen by God as a part of his sacrifice to save humanity from the spiritual death caused by sin.
If it's the latter, the word "resurrection" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there to imply all of that complex Christian doctrine. I might even be pedantic and say that, even then, we don't arrive at all of the claims made in the Apostle's Creed or the Nicene Creed. Nothing about a resurrection implies that Jesus was born of a virgin or the only son of God or even the explicit doctrine of Trinitarianism.
It can't imply Trinitarianism, because Trinitarianism is logically impossible due to violating the law of identity, so there can be no sound or cogent arguments that conclude in the truth of Trinitarianism. A resurrection can't really change that.
Given that a lot of Christians define Christianity at its core as being (at least) in line with the Nicene Creed, then an argument can be made that Christianity is necessarily false no matter what Jesus did or what happened to him.
I think that if it could have been proven to have happened then there would be excellent and logical grounds for believing the other things
Although yes, it could be that he rose from the dead and that what before happened is merely legend
But I'd think that if God wanted to raise him then he'd probably make sure humankind were to acquire an accurate record of what had happened before or else what would have been the point????
It's only impossible if the nature of the relationships within The Trinity are taken as being transitive
I'd say that within The Trinity the relationships at work are intransitive
Relationships can be intransitive, as opposed to transitive, consider the following relationships:
Premise 1: I love my wife
Premise 2: My wife loves the postman
Conclusion: I therefore love the postman
I think that the same kind of thing is at work regarding The Trinity
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Mythology.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, that is not the reason I do not believe that Jesus was not resurrected physically. I do not believe it because it is absurd to believe that a man rose from the dead after three days. I don't need to be a Baha'i to realize that. Not only that, but there is no reason to believe it really happened just because some men wrote some stories. As an atheist poster once said on another forum, a story is only proof that someone can write a story.
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Did it happen?
Or is there a more plausible story that got twisted to make magic for the bible?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Christianity can be true even if the resurrection did not happen. The resurrection is just an add-on, a superfluous belief.
Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that was that. There was no need to write stories that brought Jesus back to life.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.