Is Satan capable of good?

[ChristineM]

First let's deal with this "milions" exaggeration.

According to your source this is the count that were killed by God in the OT: 1,876,123.

1,000,000 of those were in self defense:

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And the negro went out to them with an army of a thousand thousand and three hundred chariots and came as far as Marsha.​

​

And there came against them Zerah the Ku****e with an army of a million men, and three hundred chariots; and came to Mareshah.​

​

The story is being ignored. And if "not killing is good", then how do you propose an ancient people should deal with 1,000,000 soilders coming to kill them? Construct a massive prison and hold them, and feed them? Makes no sense.

That was quick.

Actually the running total in my link is 2,316,056, not to far from the pic sbove.

Why does a god need self defense?

Surely a simple "i command you to go home" wotld be far more effective and less messy. Surely an omni everything god should be capable of that.

 

[dybmh]

Jeez how much apologetics do you need?

Your bias is obvious.

It is written in the bible.
They were the seven sons and three daughters of Job, and God only allowed it as part of a bet

Part of a bet? What did God win? What were the proceeds? What were the odds? What are you talking about?

In the story, Satan accuses Job. God says, "Go ahead and test him."

Yes...

It's not from the bible, they added apochrypha.

Nope, that's not the source, the bible is the source.

Apochrypha is not "bible".

FYI, verse numbers and kill count can also be found here...

https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/6kozlo

From your link. It's the same source I gave. It's a blog.

 

[dybmh]

That was quick.

I'm quick and resourceful. Ask anyone.

Actually the running total in my link is 2,316,056, not to far from the pic sbove.

Nope. Check the list. God is not the one killing all those people. Here's the list of the deaths attributed to God by your source.

133	God and Satan kill Job's children and slaves	Job 1:18-19	10
101	God burned 102 men to death for asking Elijah to come down from his hill	2 Kg 1:10-12	102
23	God burns 250 people to death for burning incense	Num 16:35	250
16	God burns Aaron's sons to death for offering "strange fire"	Lev 10:1-3	2
117	God caused King Sennacherib to be killed by his sons	2 Kg 19:37, Tobit 1:21	1
46	God delivers 10,000 lusty Moabites	Jg 3:28-29	10,000
128	God destroyed Amaziah	2 Chr 25:15-27	1
31	God hardens King Sihon's heart so all his people can be killed	Dt 2:33-34	1
97	God killed 100,000 Syrians for calling him a god of the hills	1 Kg 20:28-29	100,000
130	God killed 120,000 valiant men for forsaking him	2 Chr 28:6	120,000
98	God killed 27,000 Syrians by making a wall fall on them	1 Kg 20:30	27,000
87	God killed 70,000 because of David had a census that God (or Satan) told him to do	2 Sam 24:15, 1 Chr 21:14	70,000
120	God killed a half million Israelite soldiers	2 Chr 13:17-18	500,000
122	God killed a million Ethiopians	2 Chr 14:9-14	1,000,000
100	God killed Ahab for not killing a captured king	1 Kg 20:42, 22:35	1
102	God killed Ahaziah for asking the wrong God	2 Kg 1:16-17, 2 Chr 22:7-9	1
60	God killed Eli's sons and 34,000 Israelite soldiers	1 Sam 2:25, 4:11	34,002
72	God killed Nabal (and David got his wife and other stuff)	1 Sam 25:38	1
79	God killed Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling	2 Sam 6:6-7, 1 Chr 13:9-10	1
24	God kills 14,700 for complaining about God's killings	Num 16:49	14,700
75	God kills Saul, his sons, and his soldiers (because Saul didn't kill all the Amalekites)	1 Sam 31:2, 2 Chr 10:6	4
124	God made Jehoram's bowels fall out	2 Chr 21:14-19	1
99	God sent a lion to kill a man for not smiting a prophet	1 Kg 20:35-36	1
103	God sent bears to kill 42 boys for making fun of a prophet's bald head	2 Kg 2:23-24	42
84	God slowly kills a baby	2 Sam 12:14-18	1
129	God smote Ahaz with the king of Syria	2 Chr 28:1-5	1

Why does a god need self defense?

No, not God. The Jewish nation, if attacked needs to defend itself. Any nation needs to defend it self. If "not killing is good" then how to you propose soldiers at that time are dealt with?

Construct a massive prison for 1,000,000 people? Or is it that you want God-magic to make a magical perfect fairy-tale world? And nothing less would saticfy you?

Surely a simple "i command you to go home" wotld be far more effective and less messy. Surely an omni everything god should be capable of that.

Or there's a lesson contained in the story which is not relevant to you. And that's fine. But that doesn't mean it's all about a "blood thirsty god". That's the shallow ignorant POV. Ignorant of the story.

 

[ChristineM]

Your bias is obvious.

Part of a bet? What did God win? What were the proceeds? What were the odds? What are you talking about?

In the story, Satan accuses Job. God says, "Go ahead and test him."

God won the fact he can command others to murder

It's not from the bible, they added apochrypha.

The list i provided was from the bible, it included verse numbers

Apochrypha is not "bible".

So?

From your link. It's the same source I gave. It's a blog.

Taken from the bible

 

[Viker]

First let's deal with this "milions" exaggeration.

According to your source this is the count that were killed by God in the OT: 1,876,123.

1,000,000 of those were in self defense:

​

ויצא אליהם זרח הכושי בחיל אלף אלפים ומרכבות שלש מאות ויבא עד־מרשה׃​

​

And there came against them Zerah the Ku****e with an army of a million men, and three hundred chariots; and came to Mareshah.​

​

The story is being ignored. And if "not killing is good", then how do you propose an ancient people should deal with 1,000,000 soilders coming to kill them? Construct a massive prison and hold them, and feed them? Makes no sense.

Kill counts are irrelevant. God commanded the killing of children.

"1 Samuel 15:
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ***."

For that alone God isn't even capable of good. It doesn't matter what Satan has or has not done.

 

[Colt]

Bull
The atheist belief is that there is no god nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly!

 

[Colt]

No it is not. It is not a belief system. It's basically a lack of a belief system. It's possible that someone considers themself an atheist but may believe there is something beyond the here and now (most likely not).

Any time someone capitalizes atheism it's evident they are making a straw man.

Its may not be a belief system for neutral atheists that don't promote it.
When Atheists promote their Atheist belief on a Religious Forum then that's a belief! They may see themselves as a "special case" with a "special non-belief, belief system" but its a kind of faith!

 

[ChristineM]

I'm quick

No comment

Nope. Check the list. God is not the one killing all those people. Here's the list of the deaths attributed to God by your source.

Im talking god, who kills or commands others to kill in his name.

Even your list totals telephone numbers

No, not God. The Jewish nation

Again, Im talking god, or his minions commanded to kill

Or there's a lesson contained in the story which is not relevant to you. And that's fine. But that doesn't mean it's all about a "blood thirsty god". That's the shallow ignorant POV. Ignorant of the story.

Maybe not "all about" but thats sort of irrelevant to the killingisn't it

 

[ChristineM]

Exactly!

Exactly, precisely. It has nothing to do whatsoever with after death.

 

[ChristineM]

Its may not be a belief system for neutral atheists that don't promote it.
When Atheists promote their Atheist belief on a Religious Forum then that's a belief! They may see themselves as a "special case" with a "special non-belief, belief system" but its a kind of faith!

You are allowed to promote your beliefs, please allow those you hate to have the same privilege

 

[Viker]

Its may not be a belief system for neutral atheists that don't promote it.
When Atheists promote their Atheist belief on a Religious Forum then that's a belief! They may see themselves as a "special case" with a "special non-belief, belief system" but its a kind of faith!

Nope. They're merely here to state a position and defend it in debate. There's no such thing as an Atheist belief or faith. I know you need it to be so and desire it to be true. Sorry.

 

[InChrist]

Is Satan capable of doing something that ends up good, and is God capable of doing something that results in bad?

No, satan has given himself over to iniquity. God is holy, therefore nothing unholy or sinful exists in His Being, Nature or Character. Everything God does or allows is solely for ultimate good.

 

[Colt]

Nope. They're merely here to state a position and defend it in debate. There's no such thing as an Atheist belief or faith. I know you need it to be so and desire it to be true. Sorry.

Not special nor complicated, Atheist come to religious forums to argue their belief in a Godless universe, something which is also an unproven faith. Maybe you are just realizing this or don't want to admit it.

 

[Colt]

You are allowed to promote your beliefs, please allow those you hate to have the same privilege

There is no hate, you aren't that important. The thread is about Satan who lost faith in the unseen Father and launched an orgy of darkness and death. Satan effectively became an Atheist.

 

[Viker]

Not special nor complicated, Atheist come to religious forums to argue their belief in a Godless universe, something which is also an unproven faith. Maybe you are just realizing this or don't want to admit it.

Atheists come here to inquire, discuss and debate just like everyone else. It requires faith to accept the possibility of a god. It requires evidence from the faithful who make fact and truth claims. All atheism is, has been and shall ever be is a lack of belief, profession and faith in any god. It's the only honest assessment that can be made.

 

[Viker]

There is no hate, you aren't that important. The thread is about Satan who lost faith in the unseen Father and launched an orgy of darkness and death. Satan effectively became an Atheist.

Not according to Jesus. Even Satan and the demons of hell believe in God (paraphrasing). Atheists don't.

 

[Colt]

Atheists come here to inquire, discuss and debate just like everyone else. It requires faith to accept the possibility of a god. It requires evidence from the faithful who make fact and truth claims. All atheism is, has been and shall ever be is a lack of belief, profession and faith in any god. It's the only honest assessment that can be made.

I think Atheist join religious forums to basically heckle believers, promote their belief in a Godless universe. The Atheist faith cannot be proven.

 

[Colt]

Is Satan capable of doing something that ends up good, and is God capable of doing something that results in bad?

The Bible portrays Satan as a personality reality, a celestial who was one loyal to God but then thought his way out of that.

 

[Viker]

I think Atheist join religious forums to basically heckle believers, promote their belief in a Godless universe. The Atheist faith cannot be proven.

No theist faith can be proven. Not even my own. That doesn't bother me either. I don't go around making Truth™ claims or making straw men in place of atheism/atheists.

 

[Colt]

No theist faith can be proven. Not even my own. That doesn't bother me either. I don't go around making Truth™ claims or making straw men in place of atheism/atheists.

God can neither be proven nor disproven. Thats why Atheism is also a kind of faith when promoted.