"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[Oeste]

I guess my biggest difficulty is actually taking the time to break it down to people who really aren't interested and not going to change their minds...

I agree! My consolation is that someone who is on the fence about Sabbath keeping, might read one of our posts and spare themselves from an unnecessary yolk, one even the apostles state was a burden to bear. Christ's yolk is so much lighter, but this sometime makes it difficult to believe that we don't have to add our own works to add to Christs to be saved.

Surely, good works, will be rewarded, but our salvation does not rest in ourselves, but in Christ.

ROFL - that being said, one can equally say that I am also amazed at how much time the supposed "Angel " puts out in the volumes of information that is posted when I'm not budging either... we are both convinced in our own hearts as it says in Romans 14.

Lol, he does an excellent job on volume. If we could only get answers!

 

[Kenny]

I agree! My consolation is that someone who is on the fence about Sabbath keeping, might read one of our posts and spare themselves from an unnecessary yolk, one even the apostles state was a burden to bear. Christ's yolk is so much lighter, but this sometime makes it difficult to believe that we don't have to add our own works to add to Christs to be saved.

Surely, good works, will be rewarded, but our salvation does not rest in ourselves, but in Christ.

Yes! and Amen!

I am thankful for you!

Just a note... yoke and not yolk

 

[YoursTrue]

At creation, of course.

The works of God are all good, so when God created man on the 6th day, man was at rest with God.

God rested on the 7th day, but this was His rest, as man was already at rest with God.




Yes, we needed rest, because when we sinned, we entered a state of UNREST with God. Hence the institution of a day of rest for the Jews, after He rescued them from bondage in Egypt.


Let's look at this again:

Genesis 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."​

GOD rested 3rdAngel. MAN was ALREADY at rest in God. There's no need for man to take another rest when man is already at rest.


Your doctrine would make more sense if man was in a state of UNREST at the time of our creation. That is, it would make more sense if man had been created sinful, and needed a vehicle to enter God's rest.

Essentially you argue:

1. Man was at unrest when created and needed a vehicle (Sabbath) to obtain rest
2. Man was in rest at creation, but God decided man needed a rest from the rest He was already providing.

Either notion is unsupported and illogical.



There is simply NOTHING in the Genesis account that supports your contention that God made the Sabbath a day of rest for ALL MANKIND on the 7th day of the creation week. That is not SCRIPTURE talking, that is your DOCTRINE talking.

Please explain why you believe man needed a rest from the rest we already had since the beginning of our creation. I see no reason, biblically or logically, why man would need a special day of rest from God's rest.

We did not need to be brought into a state of rest until AFTER, and not BEFORE the fall. We fell from grace and this put us at a state of unrest with God. This did not occur at the point of our creation, but would occur later in the garden.

The Sabbath given to the Jews was an acknowledgement that they were in a state of unrest and foreshadows a return to mankind's complete rest in God. They left Egypt to return to God. God rested on the 7th day for our benefit, not for His 3rdAngel.

Jesus stated quite clearly:

Matthew 11:28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.​

Can you explain why Jesus is offering HIS rest if the Sabbath was plainly available to "All mankind"?

Also, can you explain why he's offering rest for our souls, if the Sabbath, and only the Sabbath, is our day of rest?


You are a trinitarian are you not? So you understand that when we enter Jesus' rest we are at rest with God, and not only on special days of the week but even if it is the 7th day, because Christ is Lord, even of the Sabbath. The offer Jesus makes is to ALL MANKIND. It's an offer to enter the same rest we had before the fall.

For the Christian, this requires a STRONG faith in the life and ministry of Christ and a lot LESS faith in our own works. It is a lot easier to rely on our own works than express faith in Christ. I understand some Christians prefer to place some of their faith in Special Days rather than going "all in" on Christ, but the unique thing about our faith is that both will stand because Christ says he will make them stand:

14 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. (Romans)​

​

So whether we eat vegetables or not, whether we have special days or not, our Lord promises he can make us stand, so we are not swayed by assertions that we will fall. It is to each master that we stand or fall, and for the Christian, our master is Christ, not "sin" or "lawlessness" as you claim. Clearly, if we are to stand before the law, then the last verse would have read: "To their own master, the commandments, laws and ordinances servants stand or fall.

Yet, Christ does not tell us we will stand before laws and ordinances, we will stand or fall before him.​

Your theory alleges that if we violate the Jewish Sabbath, Christ cannot make us stand. It's a theory that requires a doctrine that simply has no basis in scripture.

So on what day do you think Adam was not at rest with God? Just wondering what you think.

 

[YoursTrue]

I agree! My consolation is that someone who is on the fence about Sabbath keeping, might read one of our posts and spare themselves from an unnecessary yolk, one even the apostles state was a burden to bear. Christ's yolk is so much lighter, but this sometime makes it difficult to believe that we don't have to add our own works to add to Christs to be saved.

Surely, good works, will be rewarded, but our salvation does not rest in ourselves, but in Christ.



Lol, he does an excellent job on volume. If we could only get answers!

I still want to know if the 7th day of creation has ended and a work day began. I'm not trying to be funny. It's hard to express. And then after another 6 days another rest day takes place. Really for @3rdAngel I suppose but wouldn't mind looking at the question if possible. Even though I have an idea of the answer.

 

[Oeste]

So on what day do you think Adam was not at rest with God? Just wondering what you think.

Hi @YoursTrue,

I would say either at the time he first considered sinning (spiritual), or at the time of the actual sin (physical act). My feeling is that both thought and deed likely occurred on the same day.

 

[YoursTrue]

Hi @YoursTrue,

I would say either at the time he first considered sinning (spiritual), or at the time of the actual sin (physical act). My feeling is that both thought and deed likely occurred on the same day.

Adam did it deliberately. We know Eve was deceived, the Bible says if I recall correctly. Adam was not. From my understanding of the scriptures, Oeste, the seventh day of creation is the only day in that sequence (the creative days) that is not said to have a close. Every other day is said to have evening and morning, a 'day.' Not the 7th day.

 

[Kenny]

So on what day do you think Adam was not at rest with God? Just wondering what you think.

In my view, Adam was at complete rest until fear entered into his life. Until the divorce from God, he had no burden and was not heavy laden, he had rest. (Matt 11:28)

 

[YoursTrue]

In my view, Adam was at complete rest until fear entered into his life. Until the divorce from God, he had no burden and was not heavy laden, he had rest. (Matt 11:28)

Adam rebelled that is true. And the human race has been suffering since then.

 

[YoursTrue]

In my view, Adam was at complete rest until fear entered into his life. Until the divorce from God, he had no burden and was not heavy laden, he had rest. (Matt 11:28)

Adam was certainly at peace with God until, of course, he gave in to Eve's offering.

 

[Kenny]

Adam was certainly at peace with God until, of course, he gave in to Eve's offering.

Personal view... Yes, he did give in to Eve's offering but I think it was so much deeper. As you mentioned to Oeste, it was deliberate disobedience by Adam. Within the decision (My personal view)

1. Adam divorced himself from God committing spiritual adultery with another spirit
2. He, in essence, said "i will establish my own standards of right and wrong" as it still goes on today
3. He handed the authority to an entity that we now know as Satan who steals, kills and destroys
4. He went from being spiritually led to be led by his five senses

But God pursued His love and cut covenant to open a highway back to Him.

 

[Oeste]

I still want to know if the 7th day of creation has ended and a work day began. I'm not trying to be funny. It's hard to express. And then after another 6 days another rest day takes place. Really for @3rdAngel I suppose but wouldn't mind looking at the question if possible. Even though I have an idea of the answer.

A thoughtful question!

I don't believe the bible is unequivocable on this, but that's just my personal opinion. Just giving my perspective (which I am absolutely sure someone will shoot down):

I think a 24 hour period is an awfully Earth-centric view of God and much in line with how we viewed the universe back in the day....everything revolving around us. Here we have the Almighty, who has just completed an unprecedented cosmic creation, billions upon billions of galaxies, stars, planets and the like, and suddenly His day is an earth day? Perhaps, but if the billions of planets revolving around their suns took the same amount of time I would deem it more credible.

I'm more on the line of "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". That is, while the concept of a day is important to us, time itself is meaningless to an eternal God. As a being outside time and space, any measurement He performs within our reality is for our benefit. So a creative day means an indeterminate amount of time. Of course, he set our earth and sun into motion, and thus we have a 24 hour clock, which is the time period we base our Earth day upon. I just don't see how we take our Earth day and retrofit it to God's creative days, when we can't even do that to other planets.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2nd Peter 3:8)​

That's JUST ME though. and since the bible, IMO, doesn't make it clear, my opinion is subject to huge amounts of reproof. I'd like 3rdAngel to respond to your query before you give a response though, as he appears to believe our creative period was 24 hour periods.

For some of my fellow Christians, Got Questions' editorial staff believes a creative day was most likely 24 hour periods, but admit our bible is not definitive.

I still want to know if the 7th day of creation has ended and a work day began. I'm not trying to be funny. It's hard to express. And then after another 6 days another rest day takes place. Really for @3rdAngel I suppose but wouldn't mind looking at the question if possible. Even though I have an idea of the answer.

I see nothing wrong in your approach here, as I believe it's defensible. From my perspective, time, like space, was created for our benefit, as God requires neither. In fact, if we look at Daniel we see this concept further, as scripture speaks to the future in terms of weeks, which we translate into years.

However Daniel is getting a bit off thread theme, and I suspect our good friend 3rdAngel will have a lot to say about how we are to "properly" view a creative day.

@YoursTrue it's been a while since we last talked but it's good to hear from you. Hopefully you are well and it's nice to see you still frequenting the forums. Take care, have a good evening and weekend, and I look forward to talking with you again!

 

[YoursTrue]

According to the scriptures in Genesis 2:1-3 God rested on the seventh day of the week and made the seventh day a holy day of rest from work and one of Gods 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken. (see Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Exodus 20:8-11). The Sabbath was made for man to spend with God (Mark 2:27). Why ask silly questions. "Do you think God needs a day off?" Why would you think God needs a rest day once a week? You were already posted in the post you were responding to that God made the Sabbath for mankind. God made the Sabbath as a memorial of creation and to spend time with our creator. Sabbath keeping is a part of our duty of love to God.

I'll try to go slowly. The Genesis account speaks of the 7th day of creation. Does God need to sleep, go on vacation? What does it say? Genesis 2:
"Thus God finished on the seventh day his work which he had made, and rested, on the seventh day, from all his work which he had made." So what does it say, 3rdAngel? He finished on the seventh day his work and rested from all his work which he had made. He finished his work of the six days and rested on the seventh day. How did he rest?

 

[YoursTrue]

Personal view... Yes, he did give in to Eve's offering but I think it was so much deeper. As you mentioned to Oeste, it was deliberate disobedience by Adam. Within the decision (My personal view)

1. Adam divorced himself from God committing spiritual adultery with another spirit
2. He, in essence, said "i will establish my own standards of right and wrong" as it still goes on today
3. He handed the authority to an entity that we now know as Satan who steals, kills and destroys
4. He went from being spiritually led to be led by his five senses

But God pursued His love and cut covenant to open a highway back to Him.

You are right in many aspects.
Adam considered the woman (Eve) to be of more value than the One who created him. I hate to say this, but it's kind of like the concept of death of humans via evolution is accepted by many and they don't believe the Bible.
Adam chose to die along with his wife. He knew she was going to die. He must have loved her more than God. As the Bible says, she was deceived. Adam was not. Thank you for your comment.

 

[YoursTrue]

A thoughtful question!

I don't believe the bible is unequivocable on this, but that's just my personal opinion. Just giving my perspective (which I am absolutely sure someone will shoot down):

I think a 24 hour period is an awfully Earth-centric view of God and much in line with how we viewed the universe back in the day....everything revolving around us. Here we have the Almighty, who has just completed an unprecedented cosmic creation, billions upon billions of galaxies, stars, planets and the like, and suddenly His day is an earth day? Perhaps, but if the billions of planets revolving around their suns took the same amount of time I would deem it more credible.

I'm more on the line of "one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day". That is, while the concept of a day is important to us, time itself is meaningless to an eternal God. As a being outside time and space, any measurement He performs within our reality is for our benefit. So a creative day means an indeterminate amount of time. Of course, he set our earth and sun into motion, and thus we have a 24 hour clock, which is the time period we base our Earth day upon. I just don't see how we take our Earth day and retrofit it to God's creative days, when we can't even do that to other planets.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing: that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2nd Peter 3:8)​

That's JUST ME though. and since the bible, IMO, doesn't make it clear, my opinion is subject to huge amounts of reproof. I'd like 3rdAngel to respond to your query before you give a response though, as he appears to believe our creative period was 24 hour periods.

For some of my fellow Christians, Got Questions' editorial staff believes a creative day was most likely 24 hour periods, but admit our bible is not definitive.



I see nothing wrong in your approach here, as I believe it's defensible. From my perspective, time, like space, was created for our benefit, as God requires neither. In fact, if we look at Daniel we see this concept further, as scripture speaks to the future in terms of weeks, which we translate into years.

However Daniel is getting a bit off thread theme, and I suspect our good friend 3rdAngel will have a lot to say about how we are to "properly" view a creative day.

@YoursTrue it's been a while since we last talked but it's good to hear from you. Hopefully you are well and it's nice to see you still frequenting the forums. Take care, have a good evening and weekend, and I look forward to talking with you again!

Thank you, there are some points of interest here but...it's getting late, I'm not the greatest in the world therefore make mistakes, and so I will look forward to getting back to you, Oeste. Good hearing your pleasant comments also. I recall that Daniel collapsed when confronted with the presence of God. God restored him. I remember that because -- we are all imperfect and the concept of exactly who He is is sooo beyond us, although He certainly gives us insight and help to find and know Him as much as possible.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Hi there. I think I partly answered this back in post # 2809 linked. Keeping in mind 24 hours is a modern term for time yes of course. Why? The making of the weekly Sabbath proves that the creation days were literal days making up the 7 day week.

Your response here..

Day in general means -- a set period of time, from beginning to end. The weekly sabbath command given to the Jews was different than God's seventh day of creation. Man did not create himself. God did on the sixth day. And yes, He rested on the seventh day.

That is not truthful at all. According to the scripture a day in Gods creation time in Genesis1 is the darkness (night) followed by the light (day) and together these make up one day. You can read the scriptures here for yourself.

Genesis 1:5 5, And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (night) and the morning (day) were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 8, And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 13, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 19, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 23, And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 31, And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening (night) and the morning (light) were the sixth day.
Genesis 2:2 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

As can be shown from the scriptures above the creation week is 7 literal days. Of course this also is consistent with God making the seventh day Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-3 and Gods seventh day Sabbath commandment from Exodus 20:8-11 being simply every seventh day of the week. Furthermore, according to Jesus the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27 and Genesis 2:1-3. There was no Jew, no Moses, no Israel when God made the Sabbath for all mankind. There was only Adam and Eve who were created on the sixth day of the creation week in Genesis 1:26-31.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

So very well said... but, unfortunately, one must have ears that hear and heart-eyes that see. It takes the anointing to give sight to the blind and make deaf ears hear. We also know, 2 Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. But well explained!

Perhaps your own words apply to you dear friend? Are you not the one who does not believe Gods Word and breaking His commandments against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11? No one has God's salvation if they choose to close their eyes and ears to seeing and hearing Gods Word and choose to continue living their life in sin and unbelief. To think otherwise is only to deceive one self. See 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23 and Hebrews 10:26-31.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

I guess my biggest difficulty is actually taking the time to break it down to people who really aren't interested and not going to change their minds...
ROFL - that being said, one can equally say that I am also amazed at how much time the supposed "Angel " puts out in the volumes of information that is posted when I'm not budging either... we are both convinced in our own hearts as it says in Romans 14.

Trouble is Kenny you make many claims of doctrine that when tested with scripture context do not support your teachings of lawlessness. For example where is Romans 14 talking about the Sabbath? - No where right. You have to read the Sabbath into one verse when the whole chapter is talking about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath and never did. But hey if you have no scripture to support a teaching of lawlessness (breaking Gods commandments) you have to come up with something right? For me I prefer what the scriptures teach. No one enters into Gods rest if they choose to continue living their life in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:8-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11) just like no one receives Gods salvation if they do not believe and obey Gods Word. Its really that simple (see John 3:36 and 1 John 2:3-4).

 

[3rdAngel]

My consolation is that someone who is on the fence about Sabbath keeping, might read one of our posts and spare themselves from an unnecessary yolk, one even the apostles state was a burden to bear. Christ's yolk is so much lighter, but this sometime makes it difficult to believe that we don't have to add our own works to add to Christs to be saved.
Surely, good works, will be rewarded, but our salvation does not rest in ourselves, but in Christ. Lol, he does an excellent job on volume. If we could only get answers!

For me, He (Jesus) must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would be like you who do not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. You say that I have not answered you, but I indeed answered you with His Word but you do not hear him because you have chosen not to hear his Word to you. I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen.

 

[3rdAngel]

As it is, I have more than a few things to go over with @3rdAngel, including his last response to me, and I hope to get to it shortly, if not tonight, then perhaps later on in the week. Obviously, if what 3rdAngel says is true, then God was giving bread to all mankind for two days so they could take the 7th, and He was doing this since creation. It requires, IMO, a doctrine that takes fantastical leaps of logic.

Your logic makes no sense here. Genesis 1 is the creation event and when the Sabbath was made for all mankind according to Jesus in Mark 2:27, while the giving of manna in Exodus 16 has nothing to do with when the Sabbath was made for mankind on the seventh day of creation in Genesis 2:1-3.

As you have stated previously, the vast majority of Christians have no problems with anyone who wants to keep a Sabbath. I find not one person who has labels their self Christian has argued here that Christian Sabbath keepers should be condemned or shown the curb for their doctrine. Instead, for the sake of those who do attempt to keep a Sabbath, we don't begrudge, condemn, or hold them sinful and/or lawless for their belief.

According to the scriptures Gods Sabbath commandment is one of Gods 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20. There is not a single scripture in all of the bible that teaches Gods Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15-3-9. According to Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 if we seek to follow, man-made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and His Word we are not worshiping God. Begs the question then who do we believe and follow; God or man?

From my standpoint (and I am well aware, yours as well) , I would rather be accused of putting too much faith in Christ, then of not placing enough faith in a Sabbath Day.

As can be shown through the scriptures, no one puts any faith in God or His Word if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. (see John 1:1-4; 14; John 3:36; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 7:21-23). Not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is the very definition of what sin is according to 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23. According to the scriptures all those who choose to continue in unbelief and sin after God gives them a knowledge of the truth of His Word and choose to reject Gods Word in order to practice their sins will be in danger of the judgement to come unless they repent and return back to God (see Hebrews 10:26-31). Therefore to put your faith in Christ means to believe and obey Gods Word not to disobey and not believe what Gods Word says.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Look at Exodus 20:8 "REMEMBER (memorial pointing backward not forward) THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY. If you are interested in learning about the ceremonial sabbaths happy to discuss these with you. However these are not the same as Gods creation Sabbath and cannot be compared because their purposes were all different. Sorry Kenny but there is no wiggle room for you here.

Your response here...

I pointed out this error earlier:

Well that is not true. You you did not point out any error. You quoting you in disagreement with the scriptures shared with you that are Gods Word is not you pointing out error. It is you arguing with the scriptures that are in disagreement with you.

The "REMEMBER" in Exodus 20:8 is NOT pointing back to Genesis. The folly of this is that none of the Jews listening wouldn't have the faintest idea if their memories had to go back that far. Why? Because they WERE NOT ALIVE AT THE TIME!

Well none of that is true. You do know Genesis, Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus and Numbers are Torah right provided in written word by Moses. We only know of the creation event and the Sabbath from Genesis when the Sabbath was made for all mankind and Exodus 20:8-11 in Gods 10 commandments refers back to Genesis and the seventh day of the creation week in Exodus 20:8-11. Note the reason why God gave the Sabbath commandment in the ten commandments which give us the knowledge of what sin is when we break them (see 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7 and Romans 3:20) in Exodus 20:11 " 11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and made it holy. This is a direct reference to Genesis 2:1-3 as shown here Genesis 2:1-3 " 1, Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2, And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3, And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Once again you can see what you are claiming is simply not true and unsupported in scripture.

Take Care.