WHO IS GOD'S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

[3rdAngel]

Broken record syndrome yet again!!!
So you believe that the commandment in Lev 20:10 is unbiblical since it commands the abortions of pregnant adulteresses, and likewise Numbers 5:20-28.

But perhaps you can tell us why the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality, and why Jesus said nothing about homosexuality except to ask his followers to accept that some men do not marry because they are so born from their mothers' wombs (Matt 19:12), and whether that is why he never married and why the particular disciple he loved laid on his breast (John 21:20)?

Your deflecting what you are doing. I am sorry but I cannot help you if you refuse to believe the scriptures. Your posts are unresponsive to the posts you are quoting from and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. See post # 310 linked and post # 294 and post # 235 linked that prove from the scripture contexts you choose to disregard, why your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical and does not support what you are saying.

 

[3rdAngel]

So what is your evidence that Numbers 5:22 describes a fake test which only causes the pregnancy termination of pregnant adulteresses and not rotting thighs, in order that they should then be executed (Lev 20:10)?
CEB
And may the water that brings these curses enter your stomach and make your womb discharge and make you miscarry.” And the woman will say, “I agree, I agree.”
Numbers 5:22.

Great repetition but lets look at what the scripture says with context added ok? I will also add in all the other scriptures you have used as well. The context you disregard here proves why your claims that God commands abortion is unbiblical. Once again I am not really writing this for you as I know you have rejected Gods Word but I write this for others to see that your claims that Jesus family reject Jesus as coming from God is simply untruthful. Sorry but I am not leaving you with any wiggle room here.

There is nothing you have posted here that is in disagreement with what I have already shared with you from the scriptures accept your interpretation of what those scriptures are saying and your claims that Leviticus 20:10 and Numbers 5:20-24 teaches God commanding forced abortion. Lets examine if any of these scriptures teach forced abortion so there is no more wiggle room left for you.

• Leviticus 20:10 10, And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Note: This is a death penalty of a man and a women caught in open public adultery under the civil laws of Israel. There is nothing at all in Leviticus 20 like you claimed earlier that is even talking about abortion now is there.

NUMBERS 5:22 WITH FULL CONTEXT SHOWING THE TOPIC IS THE LAW OF JEALOUSY NOT A COMMAND FOR ABORTION

• Numbers 5:11-31 11, And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 12, Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him. 13, And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14, And the spirit of jealousy come on him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come on him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15, Then shall the man bring his wife to the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16, And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: 17, And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18, And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causes the curse: 19, And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say to the woman, If no man have lain with you, and if you have not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of your husband, be you free from this bitter water that causes the curse. 20, But if you have gone aside to another instead of your husband, and if you be defiled, and some man have lain with you beside your husband: 21, Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say to the woman, The LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the LORD does make your thigh to rot, and your belly to swell; 22, And this water that causes the curse shall go into your bowels, to make your belly to swell, and your thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23, And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24, And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causes the curse: and the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25, Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it on the altar: 26, And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27, And when he has made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28, And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29, This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goes aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30, Or when the spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute on her all this law. 31, Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

Note: These scriptures in Numbers 5 with the full context added in is the law of jealousy curse. It is not a judgement for abortion and no where in these scriptures is it talking about abortion. Numbers 5:11-31 is a testing curse to see if a women has been unfaithful or unfaithful. Note that when the husband has a Spirit of jealousy thinking that his wife has been unfaithful that this is a test to know if the women is being honest to God. Its is not a judgement on a women already pregnant and condemned for unfaithfulness and a command for abortion. Again you are reading that into the scripture. You are reading into the scriptures what is not written in them again.

Now to leave you no wiggle room post me a single scripture with context that is God commanding forced abortion. You cannot because there is none. You need to read that into the scriptures because it is not there. It does not matter what version of the bible you use not a single bible translation is talking about God commanding forced abortion in Leviticus 20 or in Numbers 5. Receive Gods correction and be blessed ignoring it does not make the scriptures disappear. You are peddling false teachings.

Looks like school is out and you got an F for ignoring scripture context.

 

[Monty]

• Leviticus 20:10 10, And the man that commits adultery with another man's wife, even he that commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

IOW if the adulteress is pregnant then her pregnancy will consequently be aborted when she is executed.

So endeth the lesson.

• Numbers 5:11-31 11, And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 12, Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him. 13, And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner; 14, And the spirit of jealousy come on him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come on him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: 15, Then shall the man bring his wife to the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. 16, And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: 17, And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water: 18, And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causes the curse: 19, And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say to the woman, If no man have lain with you, and if you have not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of your husband, be you free from this bitter water that causes the curse. 20, But if you have gone aside to another instead of your husband, and if you be defiled, and some man have lain with you beside your husband: 21, Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say to the woman, The LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the LORD does make your thigh to rot, and your belly to swell; 22, And this water that causes the curse shall go into your bowels, to make your belly to swell, and your thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 23, And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water: 24, And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causes the curse: and the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. 25, Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it on the altar: 26, And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. 27, And when he has made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causes the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people. 28, And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed. 29, This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goes aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30, Or when the spirit of jealousy comes on him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute on her all this law. 31, Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

IOW Numbers 5:22 & 5:27commands the termination of the pregnancies of adulteresses using a "bitter water" abortifacient. And if she is not pregnant then the "bitter water" abortifacient will have no effect.

And may the water that brings these curses enter your stomach and make your womb discharge and make you miscarry.” And the woman will say, “I agree, I agree.”
Numbers 5:22. CEB

If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.
Numbers 5:27 New International Version

But either way, if a woman has committed adultery then she is also commanded to be executed, and if she is pregnant then her pregnancy will consequently be aborted anyway (Leviticus 20:10) even if the "bitter water" abortifacient is ineffective.

So endeth the lesson

 

[Monty]

Your deflecting what you are doing. I am sorry but I cannot help you if you refuse to believe the scriptures. Your posts are unresponsive to the posts you are quoting from and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. See post # 310 linked and post # 294 and post # 235 linked that prove from the scripture contexts you choose to disregard, why your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical and does not support what you are saying.

Doesn't change the fact that Jesus said nothing at all about homosexuality, nor why he loved a particular disciple who laid on his breast instead of marrying. And doesn't change the fact that the bible says nothing about female homosexuality either.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So what is your evidence that Numbers 5:22 describes a fake test which only causes the pregnancy termination of pregnant adulteresses and not rotting thighs, in order that they should then be executed (Lev 20:10)?
CEB
And may the water that brings these curses enter your stomach and make your womb discharge and make you miscarry.” And the woman will say, “I agree, I agree.”
Numbers 5:22.

Because drinking bitter water does not cause thighs to rot or stomachs to sweel, nor does it abort babies.

 

[Monty]

Because drinking bitter water does not cause thighs to rot or stomachs to sweel, nor does it abort babies.

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that abortifacients do not cause the termination of pregnancies?

 

[3rdAngel]

IOW if the adulteress is pregnant then her pregnancy will consequently be aborted when she is executed.

So endeth the lesson.

IOW Numbers 5:20-22 commands the termination of the pregnancies of adulteresses using a "bitter water" abortifacient. And if she is not pregnant then the "bitter water" abortifacient will have no effect.
CEB
And may the water that brings these curses enter your stomach and make your womb discharge and make you miscarry.” And the woman will say, “I agree, I agree.”
Numbers 5:22.

But either way, if a woman has committed adultery then she is also commanded to be executed, and if she is pregnant then her pregnancy will consequently be aborted anyway (Leviticus 20:10) even if the "bitter water" abortifacient is ineffective.

So endeth the lesson

Please read post # 322 linked with the scripture context posted there very carefully. You simply ignored it and it is clear you do not know what you are talking about and very confused. Firstly where does it say that the Law of Jealousy from Numbers 5 is the same as the law of judgement applied to an adulterer caught in the act in Leviticus 20:10 that should be put to death? It doesn't. You are reading that into the scripture and disregarding scripture contexts. They are two separate laws with two separate judgements and purposes. It is clear that you twist the scriptures to your own detriment by ignoring the scripture context that does not agree with anything you have posted.

 

[3rdAngel]

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that abortifacients do not cause the abortion of pregnancies?

I do .. I posted the context you choose to disregard. Your response is to ignore it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you have any evidence to support your claim that abortifacients do not cause the abortion of pregnancies?

Actually, the onus is on you to prove that simply giving water a bitter flavor causes those health effects.

And by the way, I think you are deliberately obfuscating, and I do not respect it. I never said that abortifacients don't cause abortions. My claim was that the bitter water was not an abortifacient.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: Your deflecting what you are doing. I am sorry but I cannot help you if you refuse to believe the scriptures. Your posts are unresponsive to the posts you are quoting from and the scriptures that are in disagreement with you. See post # 310 linked and post # 294 and post # 235 linked that prove from the scripture contexts you choose to disregard, why your interpretation of the scriptures is unbiblical and does not support what you are saying.

Your response here..

Doesn't change the fact that Jesus said nothing at all about homosexuality, nor why he loved a particular disciple who laid on his breast instead of marrying. And doesn't change the fact that the bible says nothing about female homosexuality either.

What does what you have posted here have to do with what you are quoting from? - Nothing. So you are promoting and saying Jesus agrees with homosexuality and abortion now are you? You are really confused.

 

[Monty]

Please read post # 322 linked with the scripture context posted there very carefully. You simply ignored it and it is clear you do not know what you are talking about and very confused. Firstly where does it say that the Law of Jealousy from Numbers 5 is the same as the law of judgement applied to an adulterer caught in the act in Leviticus 20:10 that should be put to death? It doesn't. You are reading that into the scripture and disregarding scripture contexts. They are two separate laws with two separate judgements and purposes. It is clear that you twist the scriptures to your own detriment by ignoring the scripture context that does not agree with anything you have posted.

IOW the bible does not condemn abortion of pregnancies, given that it commands the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses (Numbers 5:22, 27 Lev 20:10).

 

[3rdAngel]

Actually, the onus is on you to prove that simply giving water a bitter flavor causes those health effects.

What is silly is that @Monty cannot prove his claims that the Law of Jealousy and the bitter water was an abortifacient. It was given to faithful and unfaithful woman suspected of adultery and the curse only applied as Gods judgement if the woman was guilty. If the women was not guilty there was no curse. Furthermore it would be a very silly law if the women was an adulteress and guilty but not pregnant. Anyhow that is what happens when people twist scripture and separate it from its contexts I guess.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Doesn't change the fact that Jesus said nothing at all about homosexuality,

Here is what Jesus said about homosexual acts:

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So clearly, Jesus supports keeping even the smallest of the laws of the Torah. That would necessarily include the law against sodomy.

 

[Monty]

Your response here..

What does what you have posted here have to do with what you are quoting from? - Nothing. So you are promoting and saying Jesus agrees with homosexuality abortion now are you? You are really confused.

He certainly said nothing about homosexuality. And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What is silly is that @Monty cannot prove his claims that the Law of Jealousy and the bitter water was an abortifacient.

Right. It is an assumption on his part. Nor can he name any herb that can be added to water that causes the rotting of thighs, the swelling of the belly, and the miscarriage of a fetus.

 

[3rdAngel]

IOW the bible does not condemn abortion of pregnancies, given that it commands the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses (Numbers 5:22, 27 Lev 20:10).

Fact is though the Torah or the bible does not command termination of pregnancy. This has already been proven to you in the scripture context you are unwilling to discuss that you left out.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

He certainly said nothing about homosexuality. And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality

Well the Torah never mentions lesbian sex. But the New Testament has this to say:

Romans 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

 

[Monty]

Here is what Jesus said about homosexual acts:

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So clearly, Jesus supports keeping even the smallest of the laws of the Torah. That would necessarily include the law against sodomy.

IOW he said nothing at all about homosexuality, and why he loved a particular disciple who laid on his breast instead of a woman.

 

[Monty]

Well the Torah never mentions lesbian sex. But the New Testament has this to say:

Romans 1:26
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

IOW the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality, since unlike male homosexuals, they do not have penetrative sex.

 

[3rdAngel]

He certainly said nothing about homosexuality. And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality

So this explains a lot. You are homosexual? If you are practicing known unrepentant sin you do not know God or His word according to the scriptures (1 John 2:3-4). One thing is clear to me from the scriptures is that we cannot claim to know God if we choose not to believe and obey His Word which is sin in Gods eyes.