"THE LORD'S DAY IS THE SABBATH DAY NOT SUNDAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURES

[Kenny]

You really did not answer the question Kenny.

You haven’t answered any of my questions.

I asked you do you believe saving faith believes but does not do what Gods Word says?

That is actually answered.

After you receive the Holy Spirit, you are anointed to do good works and you are empowered to follow the Word of God.

Is there something in that sentence that doesn’t address your question?

 

[3rdAngel]

You haven’t answered any of my questions.


That is actually answered.

After you receive the Holy Spirit, you are anointed to do good works and you are empowered to follow the Word of God.

Is there something in that sentence that doesn’t address your question?

Let me give you a scripture example as an example so there is no confusion or misunderstanding of what I am posting here ok? Acts 2:38 Peter please to the Jews who were listening to Him and says to them.......

Acts 2:38 38, Then Peter said unto them, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

From the scripture above we are told
..
1. REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED everyone of us in the name of Jesus Christ
2. If we repent of our sins and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ this will lead to the remission (forgiveness) of sins
3. If we repent and are baptized and receive Gods forgiveness of sins we will receive the gift of Gods Holy Spirit.
..
Now tell me Kenny if I believe this scripture is Gods Word how do I show my faith in Gods Word here? What is genuine saving faith or the dead faith of devils?

1. Do you believe that genuine saving faith believes Gods Word but does not do what Gods Word says (no repentance, no baptism, no forgiveness) and we can then receive the Holy Ghost?

2. Do you believe that genuine saving faith believes Gods Word and obeys what Gods Word says? For example I show my faith in Gods Word by believing what Gods Word says and by repenting of my sins and getting baptized in the name of Jesus for forgiveness of sins so that I will then receive Gods Spirit?

Take a moment to think the above through. According to the scripture above receiving Gods Spirit is conditional that we first believe what Gods Word says and then do what Gods Word is asking. That is if we first believe what Gods Word says above in Acts 2:38 we will secondly repent of our sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins so that we can thirdly receive Gods Spirit as shown in the scriptures above. Do you agree with what the scripture says here?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[3rdAngel]

After you receive the Holy Spirit, you are anointed to do good works and you are empowered to follow the Word of God.
Is there something in that sentence that doesn’t address your question?

If what you say here is true how does this work with Acts 2:38 that says, if we believe Gods Word we have to first repent of our sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, then we will receive the Holy Ghost?

Acts 2:38 38, Then Peter said unto them, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

The above scriptures are saying we have to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus before we receive Gods Spirit. So receiving Gods Spirit is conditional here on faith which is first believing what Gods Word says followed by doing what Gods Word asks.

Take Care.

 

[Kenny]

Let me give you a scripture example as an example so there is no confusion or misunderstanding of what I am posting here ok? Acts 2:38 Peter please to the Jews who were listening to Him and says to them.......

Acts 2:38 38, Then Peter said unto them, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

From the scripture above we are told
..
1. REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED everyone of us in the name of Jesus Christ
2. If we repent of our sins and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ this will lead to the remission (forgiveness) of sins
3. If we repent and are baptized and receive Gods forgiveness of sins we will receive the gift of Gods Holy Spirit.
..
Now tell me Kenny if I believe this scripture is Gods Word how do I show my faith in Gods Word here? What is genuine saving faith or the dead faith of devils?

1. Do you believe that genuine saving faith believes Gods Word but does not do what Gods Word says (no repentance, no baptism, no forgiveness) and we can then receive the Holy Ghost?

2. Do you believe that genuine saving faith believes Gods Word and obeys what Gods Word says? For example I show my faith in Gods Word by believing what Gods Word says and by repenting of my sins and getting baptized in the name of Jesus for forgiveness of sins so that I will then receive Gods Spirit?

Take a moment to think the above through. According to the scripture above receiving Gods Spirit is conditional that we first believe what Gods Word says and acting on our faith. That is if we first believe what Gods Word says we will secondly repent of our sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sins so that we can thirdly receive Gods Spirit as shown in the scriptures above.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

You have quoted these scriptures again and again...

But you never answered my question.

So, for me to answer your question… it is your turn to first answer mine:

1) Why do you never answer my question
2) What obedience was he talking about in Acts 5:32

Answer me those two questions and I will answer yours.

 

[Kenny]

If what you say here is true how does this work with Acts 2:38 that says, if we believe Gods Word we have to first repent of our sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, then we will receive the Holy Ghost?

Acts 2:38 38, Then Peter said unto them, REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.

The above scriptures are saying we have to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus before we receive Gods Spirit. So receiving Gods Spirit is conditional here on faith which is first believing what Gods Word says followed by doing what Gods Word asks.

Take Care.

I totally agree with this position.

Can you explain why Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water in Acts Chapter 10?

 

[3rdAngel]

You have quoted these scriptures again and again...

Indeed they are important and prove a point.

But you never answered my question.

I asked you what question do you believe I have not answered and I will answer it. I genuinely thought I have answered your questions.

So, for me to answer your question… it is your turn to first answer mine:

Ok lets do it.

1) Why do you never answer my question

See previous section. I asked you what question do you believe I have not answered and I will answer it. I genuinely thought I have answered your questions with scripture.

2) What obedience was he talking about in Acts 5:32

I answered this question earlier in post # 3366 linked (second last response from the bottom) where I posted on the context of Acts 5:32. Perhaps you missed it. I posted there "Context of Acts 5 does not change the meaning of Acts 5:32 that says "And we are his witnesses of these things; and SO IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. The context here is obedience to God over the obedience to man Read Acts 5:29 29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MAN. Context agrees with all the other scriptures already posted to you in the last post. No one receives Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says." The context is we ought to obey God rather than man.

Answer me those two questions and I will answer yours.

Done. Hope you can answer mine now.

 

[3rdAngel]

I totally agree with this position.

My turn for a question. I will answer yours next (take turns please). If you agree with this position.... then how can you have Gods Spirit if you do not repent of your sins and do what Gods Word says which are Gods conditions of receiving Gods Spirit? This is also the position of Acts 5:32 that God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. This is also the position of genuine saving faith which is to believe and obey what Gods Word says.

 

[Brian2]

You do not seem to be able to understand what is being posted to you. Read what you are responding to before posting. I have never once said that you must obey Gods Word before believing what Gods Word says. So please do not pretend I am saying things I have never said or believe. We have to believe what Gods Word says before we can do what Gods Word says right?

Where did I say that you said that "you must obey Gods Word before believing what Gods Word says"?
Peter seems to have been saying at Pentecost that the Jews should obey God by believing in Jesus and repenting of having killed Jesus and being baptised.
That had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath however.
They already thought they should do that and Peter did not say anything about it.
The apostles had received the HS before baptism (John 20:22) as did Cornelius and co (Acts 10) so personally I do not try to make baptism into a law that must be obeyed before someone can be a Christian.
But you are right that we can only obey God when we believe what God's Word says we must do,,,,,,,,,, or not do.
If you think that God wants you, as a Christian, to keep the Sabbath as the OT specifies, great, do that.
If other Christians who have seen the same scriptures you have read, do not see that as something they are required to do, you are not to judge them.
Maybe you think you are doing the will of God by telling people what you think those scriptures mean, but I don't think you are doing the will of God by saying that those who do not understand as you do, or keep the Sabbath as you do, have a dead faith and are not true Christians.
Maybe you aren't saying that, but it sounds like you are, and if you are not then why worry about what I or Kenny do on the Sabbath if we are true Christians and stand or fall before our Lord.
The Jews of Acts 15 who had troubled the Gentile Christians with the Law of Moses and circumcision were wrong. Why are you going down the same path that they went down?
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

And I post that passage from Acts 15 to show that it was more than circumcision that was the issue, it was keeping the Law of Moses also. I seem to remember in the last time we spoke that you were having trouble seeing that.

 

[3rdAngel]

Where did I say that you said that "you must obey Gods Word before believing what Gods Word says"?
Peter seems to have been saying at Pentecost that the Jews should obey God by believing in Jesus and repenting of having killed Jesus and being baptised.
That had nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath however.
They already thought they should do that and Peter did not say anything about it.
The apostles had received the HS before baptism (John 20:22) as did Cornelius and co (Acts 10) so personally I do not try to make baptism into a law that must be obeyed before someone can be a Christian.
But you are right that we can only obey God when we believe what God's Word says we must do,,,,,,,,,, or not do.
If you think that God wants you, as a Christian, to keep the Sabbath as the OT specifies, great, do that.
If other Christians who have seen the same scriptures you have read, do not see that as something they are required to do, you are not to judge them.
Maybe you think you are doing the will of God by telling people what you think those scriptures mean, but I don't think you are doing the will of God by saying that those who do not understand as you do, or keep the Sabbath as you do, have a dead faith and are not true Christians.
Maybe you aren't saying that, but it sounds like you are, and if you are not then why worry about what I or Kenny do on the Sabbath if we are true Christians and stand or fall before our Lord.
The Jews of Acts 15 who had troubled the Gentile Christians with the Law of Moses and circumcision were wrong. Why are you going down the same path that they went down?
Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

And I post that passage from Acts 15 to show that it was more than circumcision that was the issue, it was keeping the Law of Moses also. I seem to remember in the last time we spoke that you were having trouble seeing that.

No you were claiming that was what I was saying. I said and believe no such thing. I have never once said that you must obey Gods Word before believing what Gods Word says. So please do not pretend I am saying things I have never said or believe. We have to believe what Gods Word says before we can do what Gods Word says right? Genuine saving faith does not separate one from the other (James 2:15-26).

 

[Brian2]

No you were claiming that was what I was saying. I said and believe no such thing. I have never once said that you must obey Gods Word before believing what Gods Word says. So please do not pretend I am saying things I have never said or believe. We have to believe what Gods Word says before we can do what Gods Word says right? Genuine saving faith does not separate one from the other (James 2:15-26).

We need to know and believe what God's Word says before we can obey it.
However we can fulfil the requirements of the Law through loving our neighbour as in Romans 13:8-10

 

[metis]

Actually, he did no such thing.
But I suspect that is a topic for a different thread.

Matthew 7:1-3
Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?​

 

[wellwisher]

SUNDAY WORSHIP IS NOT THE LORD'S DAY

The term "the Lord's day" was used by some in the early Church as a reference to Sunday worship in celebration of the resurrection of Jesus. It comes from a scripture in the bible found in Revelation 1

• REVELATION 1:10 10, I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

The Greek words used for the day that JOHN was in the Spirit of is the for Lord's day are

• REVELATION 1:10 εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα και ηκουσα οπισω μου φωνην μεγαλην ως σαλπιγγος

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

The problem here however is that there is not a single scripture that references Sunday or the first day of the week (bible names for the days of the week) to being "the Lords day" in scripture.

According to the scripture "the Lords day" however can be referenced to "the Sabbath day" of Gods' 4th commandment found in Exodus 20:8-11.

Letting the scriptures answer this question

• WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?
• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

This then promotes a bit of a dilemma for the Church as there is not a single scripture in all of the bible that days "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday. Yet there is many scriptures referencing "the Lords day" or Gods' specific claims to ownership of any particular day to the Sabbath day that he blessed and set aside as a holy day of rest for a memorial of creation (see Genesis 2:1-3) and made one of Gods' 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11).

God's "ownership" of the Sabbath day or "Lord's day is also repeated elsewhere as "MY" (ownership of the day as in the Greek used in REVELATION 1:10 κυριακη). Other scriptures in the bible pointing to "the Lords day" as being the Sabbath day...

• MATTHEW 12:8 FOR THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY. (the Sabbath day is Lord's day)
• ISAIAH 58:13-14 [13], If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day); and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words: [14], Then shall you delight yourself in the LORD; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father: for the mouth of the LORD has spoken it.
• LEVITICUS 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day)and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
• EZEKIEL 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, (God's claim to ownership of the Sabbath day) to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ used in Revelations 1:10 is in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day. It does not say that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK.

............................

Your challenge here in this OP is to prove from the scriptures alone that the Lord's DAY is in reference to the First day of the week. If you cannot all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures. There is not a single scripture in all the bible that refers to Sunday as being "the Lords day".

May God bless you as you seek Him through His Word.

The Classic Sabbath or seventh day of creation is a day of rest, where nothing gets done, since God is resting. Are there any scriptures in the Old or New Testament that tell us when the Divine Sabbath ended?

I know of no formal proclamation that says God's rest was over, and God was back to work. If God was still resting, since the time of Genesis, is one day per week enough, for humans to celebrate the continuing rest of God? Should everyone rest until God stops resting, and he makes a formal proclamation? People assume a God day is an earth day. Why? If God was light he would be in a time dilated reference; one God day will be many many earth days. Without a proclamation that the rest is over, we do not know for sure.

Since we only use one earth day, per week, to celebrate the Sabbath rest of God, even though God may still be resting, week after earth week, there is nothing that says we cannot also celebrate the other days of creation. The day of rest was given the most fanfare, since it is not as spectacular and people may not give the softest day the full credit it deserves. Rest is very important, like work. We need that balance. But there is no taboo against celebrating the other days, if we also rest.

Some Christians, appear to assume that when God stopped resting, this started a new cycle of creation; Sunday; old day 8 is new week day 1. They have Jesus doing the work in the essence of God; trinity.

If you look at Revelations, the symbols are best signs when God gets back to work, are connected to epic scale creation. Parting the Red Sea is not the same caliber as making a new universe from scratch. The latter can be done with tectonic plate movement; tools around the earth house. Whereas, a New Universe takes a different set of quantum tools and recharging the batteries, not of this universe.

In the end of Revelation, a New Heaven and Earth appear. The other goes away. That would suggest the rest of God was finally complete and he was back at business, doing things only God could do. God still wishes people to honor the day of rest; we also need to recharge or refuel.

Here is how I explain the rest of God. Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is symbolic of law of good and evil. God never wanted Adam and Eve to learn and accept law. He even created a prohibition against law. Satan was in that law tree; shady lawyer, and convinced Adam and Eve law was the best thing since sliced bread. Law was still tainted by virtue of the original Direct God prohibition. Jesus said the righteous man shall live by faith and not by law, since law was made a taboo from the garden of eden, onwards.

We can see today how law can be used by the dark side; dictators.

What I see is that God, while winding down from day 6, made the prohibition about law. But after Adam and Eve decided on law, God, as hi last task made Satan the Lord of the Earth in charge of law and humans after their fall. The Sabbath became important, as the one day to honor God, as he rested. As God rested, Satan was in charge. God ordered Satan to gave humans a break, even though the essence of law was still prohibited. Law is attached to value judgments of good and evil, so even the given Sabbath was not seen as just good and beneficial to health and well being. But rather a direct order of good or evil. A just good, understanding, would be from the tree of life.

In Revelations, Satan is thrown from heaven, and his job as, Lord of the Earth, was no longer condoned by heaven. This change appears to be connected to God preparing to get back to work; shower and shave before back to work. But Satan would remain as Lord of the Earth to the humans, many who do not know he is no longer condoned by God like he had bene in the Old Testament. Satan was condoned by God, as God rested, but not as he prepares to get back to work and take over creation again.

After Satan is sealed, in Revelations, God creates a new heaven and earth, and will live among the people, where God will be a direct part of their daily lifestyle. Humans become part of continuing creation; second week cycle of the new and improved creation. The tree of life with its twelve types of fruit will replace the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, Instead of learned rules, humans will have advanced innate human instinct; 12 archetypes or natural firmware apps.

 

[Kenny]

I answered this question earlier in post # 3366 linked (second last response from the bottom) where I posted on the context of Acts 5:32. Perhaps you missed it. I posted there "Context of Acts 5 does not change the meaning of Acts 5:32 that says "And we are his witnesses of these things; and SO IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. The context here is obedience to God over the obedience to man Read Acts 5:29 29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MAN. Context agrees with all the other scriptures already posted to you in the last post. No one receives Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says." The context is we ought to obey God rather than man.

No… that doesn’t answer the question.

The question was in what do they have to obey.. “obey God rather than man” - says “who” but not “what"

Those who gave their lives to Jesus in Acts 2 were already followers of the Mosaic law… “what” do they have to be obedient to.

Boy, you sure do wiggle..

Please answer the question before I answer yours.

 

[3rdAngel]

Kenny said:2) What obedience was he talking about in Acts 5:32

Responded by providing the scripture context to answer your question above "What obedience was he talking about in Acts 5:32 here....

3rdAngel said: I answered this question earlier in post # 3366 linked (second last response from the bottom) where I posted on the context of Acts 5:32. Perhaps you missed it. I posted there "Context of Acts 5 does not change the meaning of Acts 5:32 that says "And we are his witnesses of these things; and SO IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. The context here is obedience to God over the obedience to man Read Acts 5:29 29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MAN. Context agrees with all the other scriptures already posted to you in the last post. No one receives Gods Spirit if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says." The context is we ought to obey God rather than man.

Your response here

No… that doesn’t answer the question.

Well that is simply not being truthful Kenny and I am providing here again for all to see. I did clearly answer your question here Kenny by providing scripture context. Acts 5:32 says "And we are his witnesses of these things; and SO IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. The context here is obedience to God over the obedience to man Read Acts 5:29 29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MAN. The context of Acts 5:32 is about obeying God rather than man and the Apostles saying God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. Now tell me why you think that this post does not answer your question?

The question was in what do they have to obey.. “obey God rather than man” - says “who” but not “what"

No that is what they have to obey. God is who they have to obey; not man. That is what the scripture context says right in Acts 5:29 while Acts 5:32 says that God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. Is that not what the scriptures say?

Those who gave their lives to Jesus in Acts 2 were already followers of the Mosaic law… “what” do they have to be obedient to.

Gods Word is both the old covenant and new covenant scriptures that point to Jesus. My discussion with you is about all scripture and what is genuine saving faith. So lets not try and make the argument now about something no one is arguing about ok? Just be honest and let God bless you. Does genuine saving faith believe Gods Word which leads us to do what Gods Word says or do we have the dead faith of devils that believe and do not obey (James 2:15-23)?

Boy, you sure do wiggle..

Well that is not true. You are the one trying to do the wiggling because you have been caught out disagreeing with scripture but you have been left with no wiggle room.

Please answer the question before I answer yours.

See above. I just answered two of your questions in good faith and provided them here for all to see. I asked you a question and you ignored it. The last question I asked you that you refuse to answer and I can understand why was.... If you agree with my position on genuine saving faith believe and does what Gods Word says.... then how can you have Gods Spirit if you do not repent of your sins and do what Gods Word says which are Gods conditions of receiving Gods Spirit? If you cannot answer this question just say so and I will answer your next question. I said I will be happy to do this for you.

 

[3rdAngel]

We need to know and believe what God's Word says before we can obey it.

Hello Brian, that is exactly what I have said to you. So what is your argument here? You have none right?

However we can fulfil the requirements of the Law through loving our neighbour as in Romans 13:8-10

According to the scriptures, loving God and neighbour is not separate from obeying Gods 10 commandments. Obedience to Gods 10 commandments is how love to God and man is expressed in a new heart that loves. That is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." It is also why Paul says in the scripture reference you provided in Romans 13:8-10 [8], [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law. So love to God and neighbor does not abolish the requirements to obey and keep Gods law from the heart. Love is how we are to obey them. Anything else according to the scriptures is sin (1 John 3:4).

Take Care.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...........................................................................................................................................................................
According to the scriptures, loving God and neighbour is not separate from obeying Gods 10 commandments. Obedience to Gods 10 commandments is how love to God and man is expressed in a new heart that loves. That is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." It is also why Paul says in the scripture reference you provided in Romans 13:8-10 [8], [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law. So love to God and neighbor does not abolish the requirements to obey and keep Gods law from the heart. Love is how we are to obey them. Anything else according to the scriptures is sin (1 John 3:4)........

Besides the first 10 there is a number 11,12,13,14 etc. up to over 600.
While under the Law Jesus obeyed the Golden Rule of Leviticus 19:18
Since Pentecost Christians are under the Law of Christ - Galatians 6:2
Now under the 'Law of Christ' Christians are under Christ's Law as found at John 13:34-35; John 15:12
The Law of Christ is to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, Christians are to Now love neighbor MORE than self. More than the old Golden Rule.

 

[Kenny]

Responded by providing the scripture context to answer your question above "What obedience was he talking about in Acts 5:32 here....

Your response here

I did clearly answer your question here Kenny by providing scripture context. Acts 5:32 says "And we are his witnesses of these things; and SO IS ALSO THE HOLY GHOST, WHOM GOD HAS GIVEN TO THEM THAT OBEY HIM. The context here is obedience to God over the obedience to man Read Acts 5:29 29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, WE OUGHT TO OBEY GOD RATHER THAN MAN. The context of Acts 5:32 is about obeying God rather than man and the Apostles saying God only gives His Spirit to those who obey Him. Now tell me why you think that this post does not answer your question?

No that is what they have to obey. God is who they have to obey; not man.

Gods Word is both the old covenant and new covenant scriptures that point to Jesus. My discussion with you is about all scripture and genuine saving faith. . So lets not try and make the argument now about something no one is arguing about ok? Just be honest and let God bless you. Does genuine saving faith believe Gods Word which leads us to do what Gods Word says or do we have the dead faith of devils that believe and do not obey (James 2:15-23)?

Well that is not true. You are the one trying to do that because you have been caught out with scripture.

See above. I just answered two of your questions in good faith and provided them here for all to see. I asked you a question and you ignored it. The last question I asked you that you refuse to answer and I can understand why was.... If you agree with my position on genuine saving faith believe and does what Gods Word says.... then how can you have Gods Spirit if you do not repent of your sins and do what Gods Word says which are Gods conditions of receiving Gods Spirit? If you cannot answer this question just say so and I will answer your next question. I said I will be happy to do this for you.

Very creative...

Can you explain why Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before being baptized in water?

 

[Brian2]

Hello Brian, that is exactly what I have said to you. So what is your argument here? You have none right?

Yes that is what you said and the way you have said it, it sounds right.

According to the scriptures, loving God and neighbour is not separate from obeying Gods 10 commandments. Obedience to Gods 10 commandments is how love to God and man is expressed in a new heart that loves. That is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS." It is also why Paul says in the scripture reference you provided in Romans 13:8-10 [8], [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law. So love to God and neighbor does not abolish the requirements to obey and keep Gods law from the heart. Love is how we are to obey them. Anything else according to the scriptures is sin (1 John 3:4).

Take Care.

The 10 Commandments are negative,,,,,,,,,,,, thou shalt not......
To love our neighbour is a positive command and goes beyond the 10 negative commands and does not do harm to our neighbour, iow it automatically does not do the negative things of the 10 commandments. So love is not the fulfilling (doing) of the Law. Love is more just as the sermon of the Mount goes further than the Law of Moses. And "fulfilling" does not mean "doing".
You have it back to front. Obeying the commandments is nowhere near the positive love that we can show our neighbour through our relationship with the Lord who enables us to love.
You should also be able to see that this loving our neighbour fulfils all the law including the command about the sabbath.
We love our neighbour by allowing them to rest and we love ourselves the same. The Sabbath was made for us, so that we could rest.
I see nothing about resting specifically on the 7th day however, the Saturday. That is part of the Law of Moses which the we don't have to keep specifically as Christians under the New Covenant according to Acts 15.

 

[3rdAngel]

Very creative...

What was creative about providing you scripture context to answer your question. Its there for anyone to read. Its called believing what the bible says.

Can you explain why Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before being baptized in water?

I noticed you are still avoiding my questions Kenny? Before I continue answering your questions, perhaps you should consider showing some courtesy in answering my questions as well. Especially if I have been answering your questions. Is it because you are unwilling to or do not know the answer? I am happy to answer my own questions for you if it is helpful. If I answer your question in regards to Cornelius now will you answer my questions to you and then believe what is shared with you from the bible? If you read the full context and chapter of Acts 10 you will see that Cornelius fulfilled all the conditions of Acts 2:28 because God does not give His Spirit to those who do not obey Him (Acts 5:32). Let me know if you need a complete break down of Acts 10 to help you see this. Happy to help you here.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes that is what you said and the way you have said it, it sounds right.

That is because it is scripture and saving faith to believe Gods Word and to do what Gods Word says. Anything else is the dead faith of devils according to James 2:10-11.

The 10 Commandments are negative,,,,,,,,,,,, thou shalt not...... To love our neighbour is a positive command and goes beyond the 10 negative commands and does not do harm to our neighbour, iow it automatically does not do the negative things of the 10 commandments.

According to the scriptures, Gods 10 commandments is neither positive of negative. The purpose of Gods 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of GOOD AND RIGHT DOING when obeyed and SIN AND EVIL when disobeyed (see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and Psalms 119:172). Gods 10 commandments are the knowledge of good when obeyed and evil when disobeyed.

So love is not the fulfilling (doing) of the Law. Love is more just as the sermon of the Mount goes further than the Law of Moses. And "fulfilling" does not mean "doing".

The scriptures disagree with you as it is written in ROMANS 13:8-10 [8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.

Not notice what the scriptures say above...
..
1. He who loves another has fulfilled the law (8)
2. For this that is if you love another, you will not break Gods commandments (commandments listed) see (9)
3. Loving our neighbor from the heart is simply summing up obedience to those commandments in Gods law to do with loving our fellow man (9)
4. Fulfilling of the law mean "doing of the law". The Greek word here used is G4138 πλήρωμα it means to "accomplish" or "keeping" (context is "the law) So fulfilling means to accomplish or keeping the law.

So the scripture are saying here that if we love our neighbor as our self we will obey those laws in Gods 10 commandments that demonstrate love. For example, when we love God and our neighbour it is expressed in our actions to do good (obeying Gods law). Romans 13:8-10 is saying if we love our neighbour...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

According to the scriptures therefore no one can claim to love their fellow man by breaking those commandments in Gods 10 commandments to do with how love to our fellow man is expressed. This is the very definition of what sin is in the bible.

You have it back to front. Obeying the commandments is nowhere near the positive love that we can show our neighbour through our relationship with the Lord who enables us to love.

As shown from the scriptures above no one can claim to love their fellow man by breaking those commandments in Gods 10 commandments that shows us how love is demonstrated in Gods 10 commandments in loving God and our neighbour as yourself. If you claim to love your neighbour but steal from them and lie to them this simply means you do not love your fellow man and are still in your sins and unbelief. Love is not separate from obeying Gods commandments. Obedience to Gods law is how our love to God and our fellow man is expressed. This is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 that "On these two great commandments of love to God and man" Hang all the law and the prophets.

You should also be able to see that this loving our neighbour fulfils all the law including the command about the sabbath.

See above no one can claims to love God and their fellow man if they do not obey Gods commandments. For example we cannot claim to love God by taking Gods name in vain, making idols and having other Gods and breaking His Sabbath. That is the very definition of what sin is in the bible (1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; James 2:10-11). Love to God and our fellow man is not separate from obeying Gods 10 commandments which shows us our duty of love to God and man and how love is expressed according to the scriptures (Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12).

We love our neighbour by allowing them to rest and we love ourselves the same.

Your making stuff up now Brian. What you are saying here is not in the bible and is in direct opposition to the scriptures just shared with you above.

The Sabbath was made for us, so that we could rest.

Agreed it is also one of Gods 10 commandments from Exodus 20:8-11 and our duty of love to God showing us how to express our love to God.

I see nothing about resting specifically on the 7th day however, the Saturday.

Read your bible dear friend. See Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD THY GOD: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

That is part of the Law of Moses which the we don't have to keep specifically as Christians under the New Covenant according to Acts 15.

You need to start reading the bible for yourself Brian. Everyone of Gods 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for Christian living. No where in the scriptures does it teach anywhere in the old or new covenant scriptures that gentile believing Christians are now free to break anyone of Gods 10 commandments. In the new covenant scriptures breaking anyone of Gods 10 commandments is the very definition of what sin is (see James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7). Acts 15 is talking about the question is the Mosaic shadow law of "circumcision" being a requirement for new gentile believers (see Acts 15:1-2). Acts 15 was never over the question are Gods 10 commandments still the standard for Christian living.

Take Care.