Madhuri

So as long as I get first dibs with your presence...

Glad to hear it

Interesting discussion between you two LOLz

Ok anyways I have to go now. I will respond to your last message later.

My fav examples of this are "I wanna talk to God, but I'm afraid cuz we ain't spoken so long" in 'Jesus walks' by Kanye West and "I really need to talk to you Lord since the last time we talked, the walk has been hard, now I know you haven't left me but I feel like I've been alone" in 'Lord give me a sign' by DMX

Wait I wasn't talking about the soul and I didn't say you have to be ignorant! What I was speaking about is the act of worship that is external i.e prostrating as a part of basic ritual worship.

Worship exists in many different forms and level.

"It is very important for me to have Realisations, to have wisdom and knowledge, as well as Bhakti"

thats the gradual progression of spiritual endeavor part.

there are two types of 'worship'... one is the "regular worship while living" worship and the other is "constant realization of God, the Self and everything else" worship

I think you are referring to the second part.

In life we will face all sorts of things. Lot's of tribulations, struggles and get beaten down. You might find that you no longer can even bring yourself to worship.

Of course temples are essentially a "Brahmin's place of residence" which serve as places of multiple purposes such as halls for discourse for Brahmins and also as libraries where theological literature are kept and preserved. Still I think that there should have been certain type of temples where anyone could enter and worship regardless of differences.

The Muslims are right in this regard and I actually respect Muhammad for him trying to preach that every man is equal in the place of worship.

Of course fortunately today most modern Hindu temples around the world are like that. Many Hindus "go to temple" as a place for worship, communicating with the Deity about their personal problems and requesting the Deity to relief them of those problems and as well as a tranquil and calming environment to meditate and relax.

"So you comment put me in mind of the people who consider normal human behaviour to be 'abhorrent'. I can see what you are saying, that what one wears is of no real importance. But I would never go as far as to say that I abhor it."

I dislike and avoid all forms of heresy and try to create an awareness of possible heresies. Much of heresy is something you notice and simply avoid and not something to develop a strong sense of hatred or abhorrence for. Other types of heresy I abhor because not only are they wrong but they are injustice. Such as the heresy of thinking one's self to be of better birth and social standing to someone else who is worshiping while at a place of worship. Even though its not very much heretical, it is however highly despicable.

Which is why I think Muslim invaders got a strong footing in India and were able to knock temples down and replace them with mosques. I take it as a sign of disapproval from God.

"I know my vanities and accept them while also accepting that one day I will overcome them." - its all good, I myself am stupid and I need help, I wish a Rishi would appear before me and converse with me sometimes. I'm stupid, you're stupid, we'are all a little stupid. This of course is not mean to degrade. We are what we are and we should want to do what is proper. Not perfecting ourselves, mind you.

That is why I say, put this "Self-realization" aside. You are not more qualified in the worship of God, nor will you be better in worshiping God, by focusing upon and improving yourself, but just doing nothing at all except worship. It does not matter what you are like. Nor what change you may do to yourself will have any bearing in the performance of worship and whether or nor worship is done properly.

"I don't feel guilty for not being a Self-Realised soul." lol theres nothing to do with being "Self realized" here. Oh my goodness theres so many things to correct Hindus on about. Theres nothing whatsoever else to "realize" about when you worship God, actually. You can even not know much about the Deity at all. The act worshipping the Deity is

- the submission towards the Deity
- the Glorification of the Deity
- asking for supplication

the purpose of worshiping the Deity should never be about anything except the Deity and its Supremacy, your "Self" should never be included in the picture, except the distinction between the two, the worshiper(yourself) and the worshiped

I don't actually mind the "dressing Indian up" part and the "feeling of putting on Indian clothing and the immersing in Indian culture" because they are part of the spiritual cleansing from our otherwise "modern", "urban" living of life. It's like you go to temple you smell the incense, put on the sandal or vibhuti/basma and eat the prasada - its all important and its sensual spiritual cleansing and a holy experience. F.e what is thought of as "Indian clothing" is infact spiritual the same way what is thought of as "Indian food" that is served as prasada is actually the best holy food. The "Indian food" that is served at temples tend to be dishes of Indian cuisine that are pretty organic and easily digestible as well as nutritious. I think the woman at the left wears a clothing that is most appropriate for a female spiritual practitioner, I think its more holy looking than a nun's dress or an arab hijabi dress http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3047/2734835151_bb724e4810_o.jpg

"I understand the maya of being self conscious"

there is no "maya" involved here. It's simply not doing what is heretical. Yes heresy does exist in Sanatana Dharma. You will find it being mentioned in the Gita. And the fault is none but our own. And unlike the Abrahamic God, the Supreme Being doesn't actually get upset and reprimand you in an extreme manner for heresy. Heresy is done by humans and labeled by humans.

"I always thought the idea that having to wear Indian clothing was stupid," I would say traditional Indian dress has been influenced by spirituality rather than Indicness. I would say Indian culture incl dressing are okay because its not "culture" but spirituality. Which is why native Indian Muslims and Christians have no problem with "dressing Indian" for religious purposes as well. The Indian culture is basically just religion.

No (lol why would I?) it just seemed to me to be so based upon your message.

Serious question, did you actually get scared reading what I had said just now?

You should know this already considering that in Sanatana Dharma we use Murtis for worship. The Murti is used so that all other external objects of perception including one's own physicality is ignored and awareness is directed exclusively towards the representation of the Deity. And also Brahmacharis, those who are at their highest level of spiritual dedication, wear extremely simple and little clothing.

I was reading the messages on ConfusedKuri's page, and you had said,

"Wearing them and getting all dressed up with bindis and bangles was one of the perks of going to temple!"

Being conscious of your external appearance is lesser form of heresy. Even if it means concerning yourself of your own looks without others, or trying to make yourself look in a certain way because of others.

I abhor and denounce this.

The Christians and the Tamilian Hindus both do these. They use going to temple as time to showcase their own clothing and compare themselves with others as well as comparing between others. This is the last thing you want happening at a place of worship.

Is that so? I didn't know/notice that. When you made that message, did you also then seeing who's online? Because I wasn't... it must be a tab that I left.

Funny because I tend to leave my pc on, and turn on the internet only when I'm using it. So it means once I get online the tab reconnects by itself. I thought a tab/browser left only reconnects when you refresh it.

Dear Madhuri, Thanks for visiting my profile page. Perhaps, you missed to note something about my personal encounters. I joined RF because of the gruelling experiences I had in life. Perhaps, something worth sharing, particularly that my Dreams confirms the life I'm in to. If you'd like to read part of my encounter, please look for the link in my Album.
Thanks for sharing time. GOD bless,
Nick

Not really, there is one a bit further away, but the temples here are mostly Tamil or Afghan. You won't find a lot of Indian Hindus in Germany.

I'm quite fascinated by Shaktism? I guess I like what Durga and Saraswati stand for. No I have never been to any mandir/gurdwara. I assume Hinduism, for it originated in India is something that's always reminded me of my origins.