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  1. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Okay then.
  2. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Here's 10 for starters: 1. One God, Creator of all things 2. Necessity of worshipping this One God 3. Series of very human Prophets around the world, all proclaiming the same universal Message 4. Importance of prayer/remembrance of God 5. Importance of fasting 6. Importance of concern for the...
  3. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Is there something specific you want to debate? What about it? Believers had their tax, non-believers theirs. Or to put it differently, it's a battlefield, people are killing each other. But Muslims hold out the possibility of mercy if you are willing to join their side. Seems reasonable...
  4. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    I think if one reads it and understands it as a package, it's pretty clear. There's plenty of positive messages in the book - one doesn't have to do mental gymnastics to find them. Humans will do that. I'm not sure what you mean by that. There are certainly things in there that aren't...
  5. P

    Islam is the most misunderstood religion in contemporary society

    Which countries are you referring to as Islamic countries/Muslim theocracies?
  6. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Different parts of the Koran relate to different aspects of a complex problem (life, etc.). I believe the Koran was of and for its time. The first verses are an introduction to the rest of the chapter. They also set the tone. Some things Allah won't forgive. Yup. :)
  7. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Allah does not say that you should go about killing every infidel you see. There is a difference between how one should act on the battlefield and how one should act when not. The Koran contains guidance on both, and this is backed up by the Hadith.
  8. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    I'm not sure what you mean by 'a sanitised translation' (which you've mentioned a couple times now). If what you say above were the case, why does Allah mention Jews, Christians and Sabians with 'those who believe' as people who will be rewarded (and upon whom there will be no fear nor will...
  9. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    If they are illiterate, how can they read the Koran and Hadith with understanding? Except, a lot of Christians do the same thing with their Bible. Why should Muslims be held to a different standard? Who has the better right to claiming they understand their faith, Muslims or non-Muslims...
  10. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Why do you think I am not being sincere?? I didn't use these words, you did, hence my question. That seems a reasonable ask on my part. I think there's a fine line here for those practicing a faith (rather than thinking about these notions in the abstract). I must confess, I'm perplexed...
  11. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Okay, what do you understand by the words 'a total way of life'? Except for Muslims, these are their values. There's a lot more to the prayer than just the first chapter of the Koran. But that aside, where does that first chapter establish the Muslim vs non-Muslim conflict?
  12. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    You can't only go by what particular books say, or rather what your interpretations of them say - Islam, like many other religions, is a living faith - it is to the people who practice it that you must look.
  13. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    It's far more than a system of law and punishment. Except many - probably most - Muslims don't see it that way. They see no conflict between being a good, law-abiding citizen in a Western country and their faith. Some would even say their faith mandates them to be a good, law-abiding citizen...
  14. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Wrt the former, you tried to link your claim that half of all European Muslims (and perhaps half of all Muslims?) support Sharia (if I recall correctly, this was your claim, right?) with the current state of affairs in Muslim majority countries. Given that, it seems relevant to note that Sharia...
  15. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    It's defenders would say it's a complete religion, rather than a totalitarian ideology. And arguably all societies 'indoctrinate' their children in the set of values that they hold to be important. Do you know what the content of the 5-times-daily prayer actually is? It doesn't lock in...
  16. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    Oh I agree, but to be fair, that isn't Sharia.
  17. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    But no Muslim majority country in the world operates according to the standards of Sharia (in its entirety).
  18. P

    Where is Liberty and freedom? Will it someday become extinct?

    But is that the way the question was worded in these polls? The nuances of wording can make all the difference. That is true. But you can be for the idea that you should live according to what Allah has said in relation to family law, say, but much less comfortable about what Allah has said...
  19. P

    What's wrong with infanticide?

    Can't argue with that!
  20. P

    What's wrong with infanticide?

    Well, it's important to be sure. But something can be practical but still not morally/spiritually sound. Some things we've just got to do what we can to make them work, even if it's not straightforward in practice.
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