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ِِA question about sin

Luciferi Baphomet

Luciferi Baphomet

Lucifer, is my Liberator
George-ananda said:
Well, I think the goal is to find the inner peace of the God within us. Sin leads to misery but If that is what you want, have at it.
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I choose to live a happy life without sin. Living through life worrying about sin makes their lives miserable and I am sure they do not even realize it.
 
Scott C.

Scott C.

Just one guy
Latewish said:
Why do Christians care about the inherited sin or any other sin and why do they confess their sins to priests and ask for forgiveness when they believe that Jesus sacrificed himself for their sin?
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Jesus' sacrifice covers the sins of those who repent. Some Christians believe that confession is part of the repentance process. It is in my church.
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
idea said:
Different denominations have slightly different beliefs - I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and most simply put we believe that God upholds justice, while Jesus upholds mercy - In many situations it is impossible to have both justice and mercy, which is why the atonement is necessary.

Here is an example parable (although it is actually a true story) that helped it all make a little more sense to me:

"
During the Civil War, there was a 19-year-old soldier who went to sleep on guard duty. A whole section of the Union army was wiped out in that particular sector. He lost many of his very best friends, all because he fell asleep and the opposing forces were able to make a surprise attack on one flank of that particular defense effort. He survived the battle, was court-martialled, and was sentenced to be hanged for neglect of duty and going to sleep, which is routine military law.

The death sentence and order of execution were placed on the desk of President Lincoln, and he was prepared to sign it. President Lincoln was contacted by a little old woman. This little mother said to President Lincoln, "When this war started, I had a husband and five sons. First I lost my husband and then, one by one, four of my sons. I have just one son left, and he’s sentenced to die for neglect of duty. He feels just terrible about what happened. He expects to die. He thinks it is only just that he should die. President Lincoln, I was wondering if you could pardon him, not for his sake, but for my sake."

And President Lincoln said, "Little mother, for your sake, I pardon your son."


The point is - the demands of justice were paid through a sacrifice. The 19yo was worthy of death, but because of the sacrifices of his brothers and father he spared.

For every wrong that cannot be fixed, for every case where justice cannot be satisified (and we do everything we can to satisfy justice wherever it is possible - but sometimes it is just not possible) - for the situations where we are unable to fix things ourselves, this is where we rely on the savior. To not forgive someone isn't about them anymore - it becomes a matter of deciding to accept Jesus' atonement or not. To not forgive is to say "I don't believe the atonement did anything" . The sacrifice the Savior made satisfies the demands of both justice and mercy. We forgive one another - perhaps not because that individual deserves it - but because we respect the sacrifice that our Savior made.



Jesus and God are two different people (JW's and Mormons agree on this one).

God's ways are not man's ways - in Christianity, the things that make someone amazing are not being rich or even splitting the red sea - the most prized possessions are love, humility, empathy... There were two sets of tablets for the 10 commandments. Moses destroyed the first set because the Jewish people were not ready for them - broken when they were worshiping a calf etc. etc. There was a higher law written on the first set of commandments...

Lower law → don't kill one another
Higher law → love your enemies

Jesus brought a very different set of laws - higher laws (read the sermon on the mount) , which were a very different nature than what some expected...
"the greatest among you is your servant" - not how the world measures things, but we believe this is the true order of heaven.
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So you believe that god is just and Jesus is mercy?
Don't you know that only the merciful is just? Have you ever heard of a just tyrant? God is just and the most merciful of all, And yes Jesus is a mercy that was sent by the most merciful to lead men from darkness to light, and only a merciful sends mercy.
All the prophets of god were merciful and kind and loving and that's what they taught.
The laws are the laws from the beginning to the end, there can be no living without laws. God made everything and to each creation he legislated a law. Nature has her law, and we have our law. the laws are older than Mouses and Abraham and Noah.
And yes, Jesus was send to make some change in the laws, but not to abolish them all.

( And [I have come] confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me) (ali imran 50)

Jesus is a prophet and the Messiah and the word of God and the spirit of god.
When Jesus said love your enemies, he meant the enmity amongst you, your coworker, boss, your neighbor, your son. He did not mean foreign enemies who come to kill you or do you great harm, these enemies you must fight them and hate them. When the Jews came to Jesus with the Romans to arrest him, Jesus and his disciples were holding swords not flowers. Do you love Satan?
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
Jesu disciple said:
This argument is amusing, because you are using the Bible to claim that the Bible is false? Jesus is called G-d more than once in the Bible, and claims it as well. You need to argue the Bible if you are going to make these arguments, not your version of it. You are arguing your beliefs, as if they are Scriptural...they aren't. Choose one or the other to argue, your beliefs, or Scripture, but don't get them mixed up, if they don't agree with each other. You seem to want me to argue your beliefs, /which aren't Scriptural,/, in a Scriptural context..that makes absolutely no sense.
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Not all the bible is false. There is 25000 new testament manuscripts, the bible is just a small fraction.

((6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! 10 Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ))

What was the story of that different gospel? And who were these people? It was the real gospel of Jesus and the people were the Apostles of Jesus. People were quickly deserting his false gospel.

((1Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titusalong also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. 3Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. 4This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

Privately, because he was doing wrong, and by slaves he meant the laws that he abolished.

11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in hishypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

They were against his teaching, because he was lying to the gentiles. (Freedom in Christ) his lying about Jesus and he calls it freedom.
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
Mestemia said:
Source please.
And I am asking for the specific Bible verse(s).


Source please.
And I am asking for the specific Bible verse(s).


Source please.
And I am asking for the specific Bible verse(s).


Source please.
And I am asking for the specific Bible verse(s).
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Two third of your bible is false. The sons of Israel confirm this and the sons of Ishmael, so how can the descendant of the gentiles know batter than those of the house of Abraham?! Use logic with your bible.
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
Scott C. said:
Jesus' sacrifice covers the sins of those who repent. Some Christians believe that confession is part of the repentance process. It is in my church.
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Jesus was never crucified. That was the son of the father (Barabbas) who was nailed to the cross.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Latewish said:
Two third of your bible is false. The sons of Israel confirm this and the sons of Ishmael, so how can the descendant of the gentiles know batter than those of the house of Abraham?! Use logic with your bible.
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So basically you want us to just take your word for it?
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
 
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