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ِِA question about sin

Latewish

Latewish

Member
Mestemia said:
So basically you want us to just take your word for it?
How do you expect to be taken seriously?
Click to expand...

Who said it's my word? You think only Christians received revelations from god. I told you use logic with your bible. Did Jacob beat god the almighty? Did prophet Lot lay with his daughters? Did god the all knowing, who sees all, only discovered that Adam ate the apple, while he was waking in the garden like a normal man? are we made in the image of god when we are 3% far from being monkeys?
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
Mestemia said:
Source please.
And I am asking for the specific Bible verse(s).

Not that I am going to hold my breath....
Click to expand...


Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

You have said so Jesus replied.

When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer.

Then Pilate asked him, “Don’t you hear the testimony they are bringing against you?”

But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge—to the great amazement of the governor.



Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus Barabbas.

So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?”

For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

“Barabbas,” they answered.

“What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, Crucify him!

“Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!.

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.



My comment

Logic say's: When Jesus came to the Jews they were slaves under the Romans been slapped and kicked around. They at first thought Jesus was like Moses, And that he too will deliver them from slavery. But they did not understand Jesus. This to clear for you the position of the Jews at the time, They were slaves under the Romans whip, So Pilate did not fear an uproar, Pilate had no fear from the Jews, but he had fear over the sake of his family and wife which he loved and respected. She who later was called saint Claudia or saint Procula.

After reading her letter he knew that if anything bad happens to Jesus, He and his wife will be damned. So, logic say's that he would never risk his life and his family for the sake of some slaves that are shouting, kill an innocent man for nothing and free the guilty one (Jesus of Barabbas). Barabbas was a thief and a rebel against Rome. He killed roman officers and soldiers, so he was condemned to death for insurrection against the Roman Empire; Even if Pilate wanted, he could not let him go. As for the festival's custom if there was ever one, It was his own custom, not Rome's. Pilate did not have the authority to release Barabbas, not even the emperor himself. Could Obama release Ben laden?


Plus how could the Jews say “His blood is on us and on our children!” why did they deliver him to the Romans then?!! They could have killed him themselves. But they were afraid of having his blood on them. How can a crowd of people answer all the same answer? They all together said “His blood is on us and on our children!” This is another

fabrication from the anonymous writers of the Bible.
If the Jews did force Pilate to crucify Jesus Christ, he wouldn't have beaten him so brutally, knowing his innocent, he would have just crucified him..

What Pilate really did, He crucified Jesus of Barabbas.

Barabbas looked a lot like Jesus, and with the beating he took, his face was bruised and covered with blood, so the crowd mistook him for Jesus Christ. Pilate took Jesus Christ to a hide out and disguised him as a gardener. Not that he was afraid of the Jews, but he was afraid for Jesus Christ.

And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it seemed to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain(.Al Quran an Nisa 157)
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Latewish said:
...
Click to expand...

It does not sound like you understand the difference between justice and mercy - these are two very different things which are often at odds with one another. ..

There are many different accounts of history, which is why God has sent the Holy Spirit and the light of Christ (which is our conscience) to guide and direct us. We also have the guidance of modern day prophets and apostles, and direction of the priesthood which has been restored to the earth.

Those who have gone through the repentance process know of the reality of who the Savior was. Without the atonement, it would be impossible for guilt to be swept away.
 
Last edited:
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Latewish said:
Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”

You have said so Jesus replied.

When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer.

Then Pilate asked him, “Don’t you hear the testimony they are bringing against you?”

But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge—to the great amazement of the governor.



Now it was the governor’s custom at the festival to release a prisoner chosen by the crowd. At that time they had a well-known prisoner whose name was Jesus Barabbas.

So when the crowd had gathered, Pilate asked them, “Which one do you want me to release to you: Jesus Barabbas, or Jesus who is called the Messiah?”

For he knew it was out of self-interest that they had handed Jesus over to him.

While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed.

“Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor.

“Barabbas,” they answered.

“What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” Pilate asked.

They all answered, Crucify him!

“Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!.

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!”

Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.



My comment

Logic say's: When Jesus came to the Jews they were slaves under the Romans been slapped and kicked around. They at first thought Jesus was like Moses, And that he too will deliver them from slavery. But they did not understand Jesus. This to clear for you the position of the Jews at the time, They were slaves under the Romans whip, So Pilate did not fear an uproar, Pilate had no fear from the Jews, but he had fear over the sake of his family and wife which he loved and respected. She who later was called saint Claudia or saint Procula.

After reading her letter he knew that if anything bad happens to Jesus, He and his wife will be damned. So, logic say's that he would never risk his life and his family for the sake of some slaves that are shouting, kill an innocent man for nothing and free the guilty one (Jesus of Barabbas). Barabbas was a thief and a rebel against Rome. He killed roman officers and soldiers, so he was condemned to death for insurrection against the Roman Empire; Even if Pilate wanted, he could not let him go. As for the festival's custom if there was ever one, It was his own custom, not Rome's. Pilate did not have the authority to release Barabbas, not even the emperor himself. Could Obama release Ben laden?


Plus how could the Jews say “His blood is on us and on our children!” why did they deliver him to the Romans then?!! They could have killed him themselves. But they were afraid of having his blood on them. How can a crowd of people answer all the same answer? They all together said “His blood is on us and on our children!” This is another

fabrication from the anonymous writers of the Bible.
If the Jews did force Pilate to crucify Jesus Christ, he wouldn't have beaten him so brutally, knowing his innocent, he would have just crucified him..

What Pilate really did, He crucified Jesus of Barabbas.

Barabbas looked a lot like Jesus, and with the beating he took, his face was bruised and covered with blood, so the crowd mistook him for Jesus Christ. Pilate took Jesus Christ to a hide out and disguised him as a gardener. Not that he was afraid of the Jews, but he was afraid for Jesus Christ.

And for their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but it seemed to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain(.Al Quran an Nisa 157)
Click to expand...
So you base your attempt at correcting Christians on what they believe on the idea that Barabbas and Jesus are the same person in Matthew 27?
 
M

MikeC.

New Member
Sin is harmful, wrong behavior that people cause to each other and so to themselves.
We care about it, because God loves us, and so he want for us only the good. We have to listen and obey him, throughout Bible his word. Like a children to beloved parents.
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
idea said:
It does not sound like you understand the difference between justice and mercy - these are two very different things which are often at odds with one another. ..

There are many different accounts of history, which is why God has sent the Holy Spirit and the light of Christ (which is our conscience) to guide and direct us. We also have the guidance of modern day prophets and apostles, and direction of the priesthood which has been restored to the earth.

Those who have gone through the repentance process know of the reality of who the Savior was. Without the atonement, it would be impossible for guilt to be swept away.
Click to expand...

God has 99 fine names, his favored one is the Beneficent. To read the Quran you must first say (in the name of Allah the beneficent and most merciful) plus there is a whole Surat in the Quran called the Beneficent.
You say that justice and mercy should not be joined, so that justice can be rightfully done, and that's correct, but not in god's case, his a god not a man.

Who created mercy? Who put mercy in the hearts of the merciful people? It was god, right ? If god had no mercy how can he give it? The one who lack the thing can not give it to others.

Example: What god did with Noah and his people? He saved Noah in the ark and destroyed his people, now god did justice and mercy at the same time, his mercy was the ark.

When you do wrong and your mother or father punish you, dose it mean that they have no mercy?
If god had no mercy the whole world would have fallen. All the blessings you see in you and all around you is because of his mercy not Jesus's. You say god sent Jesus as mercy to the world, how? If he was unmerciful how can he send mercy?

Christians believe that Jesus is the judge of the judgement day, I take it you don't believe that, since he is merciful.

Tell me more about your creed to debate you. What is your creed called, are you a christadelphian?
 
Latewish

Latewish

Member
Luciferi Baphomet

Luciferi Baphomet

Lucifer, is my Liberator
idea

idea

Question Everything
Latewish said:
Who created mercy? Who put mercy in the hearts of the merciful people? It was god, right ? If god had no mercy how can he give it? The one who lack the thing can not give it to others.
Example: What god did with Noah and his people? He saved Noah in the ark and destroyed his people, now god did justice and mercy at the same time, his mercy was the ark.
When you do wrong and your mother or father punish you, dose it mean that they have no mercy?
If god had no mercy the whole world would have fallen. All the blessings you see in you and all around you is because of his mercy not Jesus's. You say god sent Jesus as mercy to the world, how? If he was unmerciful how can he send mercy?
Christians believe that Jesus is the judge of the judgement day, I take it you don't believe that, since he is merciful.
Tell me more about your creed to debate you. What is your creed called, are you a christadelphian?
Click to expand...

I belong to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, but I do not wish to debate - contention is of the devil, no? Yes - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son (John 3:16), it was through God that the atonement was possible. God is both loving and Just - but the atonement was necessary.

Are you familiar with the Euthyphro dilemma? "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" I subscribe to the position that "what is morally good is commanded by God because it is morally good". I believe that good and bad, mercy and justice, love and hate - that these universal principles are self-determining, and even God is subject to them. God is good because He commands good things and follows good laws. If He were to cease following these laws, He would cease to be God. God must uphold justice - and justice requires a perfect life (Jesus) for a perfect life (Adam), it requires that every ill deed be payed in full for - justice requires a full and complete atonement, or we are all lost.

I'm not sure how much of the old testament you use - what do you believe was the symbolism behind all of the animal sacrifices? What do you believe regarding all of the prophecies of the old testament of a Savior?
This is what I believe about JEsus
http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod?lang=eng
 
idea

idea

Question Everything
Priestess of Lucifer said:
I thought that their bible says not to judge anyone.
Click to expand...

Here is the full idea of it:
And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

It's ok to judge - so long as you are very careful that you do not judge wrongfully.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Latewish said:
Why do Christians care about the inherited sin or any other sin and why do they confess their sins to priests and ask for forgiveness when they believe that Jesus sacrificed himself for their sin?
Click to expand...

I believe we wish to avoid sin because "the wages of sin is death."

I believe we confess sins for this reason: 1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

I believe this comes from an understanding of what this means. Does this mean that every sin of everyone is forgiven? No. Does it mean that God will forgive the sins of the repentant? Yes. So in confession there should be a request for forgiveness and a repentance. Has Jesus already died for that sin for which I am asking forgiveness. Yes. Does that mean He will forgive me? Yes. I believe one will not have a clear conscience until one asks for forgiveness so this is not meant to elicit forgiveneess from God which we already have but to be reminded that our sin is forgiven. Do we also have to be reminded not to sin? Yes.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
idea said:
Here is the full idea of it:
And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

It's ok to judge - so long as you are very careful that you do not judge wrongfully.
Click to expand...

I believe for instance if one wishes to judge me on my understanding of the Bible then I will also judge that person by his understanding of the Bible and of course I will wish to judge by the light God has given me.
 
Luciferi Baphomet

Luciferi Baphomet

Lucifer, is my Liberator
idea said:
Here is the full idea of it:
And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

It's ok to judge - so long as you are very careful that you do not judge wrongfully.
Click to expand...
To me it just sounds very hypocritical.
 
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