“And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you”

[paarsurrey]

Arberry: “And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors”
Quran Surah 2:190
Is it not a peaceful and peace promoting teaching? Please

Regards

__________
This thread was conceptualized from post:
#14 from loverofhumanity, one may like to read it. Regards

 

[Sleeppy]

How do you fight, without aggression?

 

[Jedster]

How do you fight, without aggression?

0

Obviously it is "fighting without fighting"

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you fight, without aggression?

It's called self defence. Every nation on earth has a defence force for that reason.

 

[paarsurrey]

It's called self defence. Every nation on earth has a defence force for that reason.

It is essential for the co-existence of the human race. Please
Regards

 

[Sleeppy]

It's called self defence. Every nation on earth has a defence force for that reason.

I see what you're saying. In other words, to "aggress" is to initiate conflict.

@paarsurrey

Is this peace promoting? No. Contrary to that, it's telling you when to abandon peace.

Pacifism is the only peace promoting and peace sustaining truth:

Matthew 5:38-45
Ye heard that it was said: Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth; but I -- I say to you, not to resist the evil, but whoever shall slap thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other; and whoever is willing to take thee to law, and thy coat to take -- suffer to him also the cloak. And whoever shall impress thee one mile, go with him two, to him who is asking of thee be giving, and him who is willing to borrow from thee thou mayest not turn away. Ye heard that it was said: Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and shalt hate thine enemy; but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you, that ye may be sons of your Father in the heavens, because His sun He doth cause to rise on evil and good, and He doth send rain on righteous and unrighteous.

 

[LuisDantas]

It is essential for the co-existence of the human race. Please
Regards

I have issues with that.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see what you're saying. In other words, to "aggress" is to initiate conflict.

@paarsurrey

Is this peace promoting? No. Contrary to that, it's telling you when to abandon peace.

Pacifism is the only peace promoting and peace sustaining truth:

Matthew 5:38-45
Ye heard that it was said: Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth; but I -- I say to you, not to resist the evil, but whoever shall slap thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other; and whoever is willing to take thee to law, and thy coat to take -- suffer to him also the cloak. And whoever shall impress thee one mile, go with him two, to him who is asking of thee be giving, and him who is willing to borrow from thee thou mayest not turn away. Ye heard that it was said: Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and shalt hate thine enemy; but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you, that ye may be sons of your Father in the heavens, because His sun He doth cause to rise on evil and good, and He doth send rain on righteous and unrighteous.

That law is given for individuals but not for communities or cities or countries.

So if your country is attacked you don't defend it? That's not pacifism, that's 'inviting' despotism, and aggression.

To just stand aside and allow women and children to be killed and raped and tortured without trying to stop it by even aggressive means if need be is against the spirit of what Christ taught.

Christ showed anger at the money changers. Which shows that in some situations aggression is required.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Here are some clearer English translations of that verse of the Quran:

2: 190 And fight for the religion of GOD against those who fight against you; but transgress not by attacking them first, for GOD loveth not the transgressors.

George Sale

2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell


2:190 Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors.

N J Dawood


2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.


Marmaduke Pickthall

 

[paarsurrey]

I have issues with that.

What are the issues, please?
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

What are the issues, please?
Regards

Self-defence as a goal is just not very defensable - all ironies aside.

True peace can only be attained by aiming to reach out and reaching understandings with others.

Acceptance of external aggression as an unavoidable part of existence works for perpetuating that state of things.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Arberry: “And fight in the way of God with those; who fight with you, but aggress not: God loves not the aggressors”
Quran Surah 2:190
Is it not a peaceful and peace promoting teaching? Please

Regards

__________
This thread was conceptualized from post:
#14 from loverofhumanity, one may like to read it. Regards

Depends on how you determine what an aggressor is.

 

[paarsurrey]

Self-defence as a goal is just not very defensable - all ironies aside.

True peace can only be attained by aiming to reach out and reaching understandings with others.

Acceptance of external aggression as an unavoidable part of existence works for perpetuating that state of things.

"reaching understandings with others."

But what could be done to the aggressors who is not ready for a dialogue, and whenever a treaty is made for peace, they would break it.
That was the situation of the Meccan aggressors, they made "sword" as the only judge of Truth?

Regards

P.S. Quran mentions it:
Verse (9:8)


Sahih International: How [can there be a treaty] while, if they gain dominance over you, they do not observe concerning you any pact of kinship or covenant of protection? They satisfy you with their mouths, but their hearts refuse [compliance], and most of them are defiantly disobedient.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

Verse (9:10)


Sahih International: They do not observe toward a believer any pact of kinship or covenant of protection. And it is they who are the transgressors.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran
Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Depends on how you determine what an aggressor is.

How would you do it? Please
Regards

 

[Deathbydefault]

How would you do it? Please
Regards

I would consider an aggressor as a person or group that intends to directly inflict harm on me or those that I care about. How they do that is up to them, it is simply that they do it which makes them an aggressor.

But your quote seemed to be referring to those whom are aggressors to 'the way of God' and such, while I am talking about myself.

 

[Kirran]

I'll admit to being more of a turn the other cheek kind of a guy.

Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all that.

 

[paarsurrey]

I'll admit to being more of a turn the other cheek kind of a guy.
Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all that.

"Eye for an eye"

It is Judaism. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I'll admit to being more of a turn the other cheek kind of a guy.
Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind and all that.

To "turn the other cheek kind of a guy"

How many times in ones own life one has practiced it and how many time one could not do it? Please
It is the teaching of Christianity. Not even Jesus could do it.
Regards

 

[Kirran]

Forgiveness is not some uniquely Christian teaching, I like to think! Neither is nonviolence! Gandhi pulled it off.

 

[LuisDantas]

"reaching understandings with others."

But what could be done to the aggressors who is not ready for a dialogue, and whenever a treaty is made for peace, they would break it.
That was the situation of the Meccan aggressors, they made "sword" as the only judge of Truth?

I do not have confortable answers. But I feel secure to say that military actions do not bring peace. Ever. For anyone.

There is a reason why my favorite Muslim is Badshah Khan.