“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Soapy]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity but it is relevant to a part of trinitarianism and other ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ type of ideological beliefs, wherein it is claimed that:

1. ‘Jesus is equal to God because he is the Son of God’
2. ‘Jesus had the same nature as God so he, too, is God’
3. ‘Jesus received all things that the Father had therefore jesus is God’

These are a few of the reasonings I have heard but which carry no evidence from the scriptures... and it is from the scriptures that I seek the answer to:

• Where is this belief shown in the Old and New Testaments

I am asking:

• If the Son receives what he has from the Father, how is the son equal to the Father who gave him what he has?
• Jesus is given all power and authority BY the Father ... but only did a period of time - and even so, the ‘all things’ did not mean ‘absolutely all things’ because the Father’s “Seat of Power” was not part of the deal. This is illustrated by the stories of:

1. Joseph in Egypt given all power and authority to rule over Ha roads Kingdom ... for a period of time until the famine was over’ whence he ‘HANDED BACK POWER AND AUTHORITY TO’ Pharoah. And, Pharoah said to him, ‘EXCEPT FOR MY THRONE, you are to be Pharoah to my people’
2. Mordeciah in Persia (Book of Esther) in which King Xerxes handed over his Rulership to Mordeciah so that Mordeciah could save the Jews on the day of Purim where the Jews in that kingdom were edicted to be destroyed by the wicked Haman who tricked kings Xerxes.
3. Moses, also, was ‘GOD’ for a period of time under Pharoah. THE GOD, YAHWEH said to him that he was to be ‘God to Pharoah’ (read that as you may) and Moses even was given a high priest to mediate between himself and the people (there’s more to this than I’m saying but times and attention doesn’t warrant right now)

What these show is that even if a Father (or God) gives ‘ALL’ or designates another (obviously, a SON OF MAN) to ACT on his behalf, this still doesn’t make the trusted ‘Son’ EQUAL to the Father, to the God, who entrusted him.

Furthermore, what is it then when the Father has more than one Son - are they both (all) equal to each other ... I don’t think any scriptures credits that reasoning - does it?

Lastly, Adam, the first human, (until he sinned) is credited as being:

• ‘SON OF GOD’ (Luke 3:38)

How is it no one say that:

• ‘Adam was equal to God’

And we know the holy angels are:

• ‘Sons of God’

Why are they not said to:

• ‘Be equal to God because they are Sons of God’

And Jesus prays to the Father that the apostles should also become ‘Sons’ of God...

• ‘Equal to God’???

I’m searching for the reasoning behind ‘Son is equal to Father’ in Christianity or tradition of the Jews - or that it is a myth to substantiate a falsehood of trinitarianism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think the Bible indicates the son has the authority as his father does, but not equal.

That was my thought when I was a Christian.

 

[MatthewA]

Have you ever seen this scripture?

Philippians 2:
5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,

did not consider equality with God

something to be grasped,a

7but emptied Himself,

taking the form of a servant,

being made in human likeness.8And being found in appearance as a man,

He humbled Himself

and became obedient to death—

even death on a cross.

9Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place (God exalts his Word)

and gave Him the name above all names,10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.

 

[InChrist]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity but it is relevant to a part of trinitarianism and other ‘Father, Son, and Holy Spirit’ type of ideological beliefs, wherein it is claimed that:

1. ‘Jesus is equal to God because he is the Son of God’
2. ‘Jesus had the same nature as God so he, too, is God’
3. ‘Jesus received all things that the Father had therefore jesus is God’

These are a few of the reasonings I have heard but which carry no evidence from the scriptures... and it is from the scriptures that I seek the answer to:

• Where is this belief shown in the Old and New Testaments

I am asking:

• If the Son receives what he has from the Father, how is the son equal to the Father who gave him what he has?
• Jesus is given all power and authority BY the Father ... but only did a period of time - and even so, the ‘all things’ did not mean ‘absolutely all things’ because the Father’s “Seat of Power” was not part of the deal. This is illustrated by the stories of:

1. Joseph in Egypt given all power and authority to rule over Ha roads Kingdom ... for a period of time until the famine was over’ whence he ‘HANDED BACK POWER AND AUTHORITY TO’ Pharoah. And, Pharoah said to him, ‘EXCEPT FOR MY THRONE, you are to be Pharoah to my people’
2. Mordeciah in Persia (Book of Esther) in which King Xerxes handed over his Rulership to Mordeciah so that Mordeciah could save the Jews on the day of Purim where the Jews in that kingdom were edicted to be destroyed by the wicked Haman who tricked kings Xerxes.
3. Moses, also, was ‘GOD’ for a period of time under Pharoah. THE GOD, YAHWEH said to him that he was to be ‘God to Pharoah’ (read that as you may) and Moses even was given a high priest to mediate between himself and the people (there’s more to this than I’m saying but times and attention doesn’t warrant right now)

What these show is that even if a Father (or God) gives ‘ALL’ or designates another (obviously, a SON OF MAN) to ACT on his behalf, this still doesn’t make the trusted ‘Son’ EQUAL to the Father, to the God, who entrusted him.

Furthermore, what is it then when the Father has more than one Son - are they both (all) equal to each other ... I don’t think any scriptures credits that reasoning - does it?

Lastly, Adam, the first human, (until he sinned) is credited as being:

• ‘SON OF GOD’ (Luke 3:38)

How is it no one say that:

• ‘Adam was equal to God’

And we know the holy angels are:

• ‘Sons of God’

Why are they not said to:

• ‘Be equal to God because they are Sons of God’

And Jesus prays to the Father that the apostles should also become ‘Sons’ of God...

• ‘Equal to God’???

I’m searching for the reasoning behind ‘Son is equal to Father’ in Christianity or tradition of the Jews - or that it is a myth to substantiate a falsehood of trinitarianism.

No one says Adam is equal to God because God is God and Adam is man. God is eternal and infinite and Adam was created and finite. The Son of God is equal to His Father because, though they have different roles, they both have God Nature.
Every human being created in the image of God is equal in there human nature and value. It doesn’t matter whether one has more money or power; President or Janitor, all are human beings and therefore equal.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all compose the Godhead and share the same God Nature and Eternal Essence and are therefore equal.

 

[SigurdReginson]

No one says Adam is equal to God because God is God and Adam is man. God is eternal and infinite and Adam was created and finite. The Son of God is equal to His Father because, though they have different roles, they both have God Nature.
Every human being created in the image of God is equal in there human nature and value. It doesn’t matter whether one has more money or power; President or Janitor, all are human beings and therefore equal.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all compose the Godhead and share the same God Nature and Eternal Essence and are therefore equal.

Hmm... If that's true, why should Isaac or Jephthah's daughter have obeyed their fathers instead of just saying "no thanks" to the human sacrifice thing?

It seems children are always to obey their parents in the bible. "Honor thy father and thy mother" is even one of the ten commandments.

 

[InChrist]

Hmm... If that's true, why should Isaac or Jephthah's daughter have obeyed their fathers instead of just saying "no thanks" to the human sacrifice thing?

It seems children are always to obey their parents in the bible. "Honor thy father and thy mother" is even one of the ten commandments.

I don’t quite understand your question or your point. Elaborate if you like.
I see no contradiction with the Son of God honoring His Father God.

Here is a linked article you may find interesting...


“The Bible presents a God who did not need to create any beings to experience love, communion and fellowship. This God is complete in Himself, being three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, separate and distinct, yet at the same time eternally one God. They loved and communed and fellowshiped with each other and took counsel together before the universe, angels or man were brought into existence. Isaiah "heard the voice of the Lord [in eternity past] saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" (Isa:6:8). Moses revealed the same counseling together of the Godhead: "And God said, Let us make man in ourimage, after our likeness"; and again, "Let us go down, and there confound their language" (Gen:1:26
;11:7). Who is this "us" if God is a single entity? Why does God say, "The man is become as one of us" (Gen:3:22)”

The Trinity

 

[SigurdReginson]

I don’t quite understand your question or your point. Elaborate if you like.
I see no contradiction with the Son of God honoring His Father God.

Here is a linked article you may find interesting...


“The Bible presents a God who did not need to create any beings to experience love, communion and fellowship. This God is complete in Himself, being three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, separate and distinct, yet at the same time eternally one God. They loved and communed and fellowshiped with each other and took counsel together before the universe, angels or man were brought into existence. Isaiah "heard the voice of the Lord [in eternity past] saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" (Isa:6:8). Moses revealed the same counseling together of the Godhead: "And God said, Let us make man in ourimage, after our likeness"; and again, "Let us go down, and there confound their language" (Gen:1:26
;11:7). Who is this "us" if God is a single entity? Why does God say, "The man is become as one of us" (Gen:3:22)”

The Trinity

Nah, it's ok. There's no real point to make. I was just curious to see your thoughts on the subject.

Hmmm... Well, that would depend. In the Quran, god refers to himself in the plural as well, but specifically says that the trinity is false from what I understand (maybe you can confirm or correct that, @Conscious thoughts). Could this just be a case of the royal "We?"

 

[Spirit of Light]

Nah, it's ok. There's no real point to make. I was just curious to see your thoughts on the subject.

Hmmm... Well, that would depend. In the Quran, god refers to himself in the plural as well, but specifically says that the trinity is false from what I understand (maybe you can confirm or correct that, @Conscious thoughts). Could this just be a case of the royal "We?"

What the quran say in the verse Surah 4:171 is this

(4:171) People of the Book! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to Allah nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him (which led to Mary's conception) So believe in Allah and in His Messengers, and do not say: (Allah is a) trinity Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. Allah is indeed just one God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. Allah is sufficient for a guardian.

 

[SigurdReginson]

What the quran say in the verse Surah 4:171 is this

Ah, thank you!

Would you say this article is accurate, @Conscious thoughts?

In the Holy Quran, why does God refer to Himself in the plural? | Islam Ahmadiyya

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ah, thank you!

Would you say this article is accurate, @Conscious thoughts?

In the Holy Quran, why does God refer to Himself in the plural? | Islam Ahmadiyya

I can not comment on an other islamic group that i do not know very well at all, but i can answer this

In the Quran Allah interchangeably uses the singular and plural in reference to Himself, however this is a matter of linguistics. So the singular is used to affirm the fact that He is One and has no partner or associate, and the plural is used to emphasize His glory.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I can not comment on an other islamic group that i do not know very well at all, but i can answer this

In the Quran Allah interchangeably uses the singular and plural in reference to Himself, however this is a matter of linguistics. So the singular is used to affirm the fact that He is One and has no partner or associate, and the plural is used to emphasize His glory.

Awesome, thanks!

Interesting how that's grammatically the same in English. Plurality to denote a higher station.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Awesome, thanks!

Interesting how that's grammatically the same in English. Plurality to denote a higher station.

Very welcome @SigurdReginson

 

[Trailblazer]

Ah, thank you!

Would you say this article is accurate, @Conscious thoughts?

In the Holy Quran, why does God refer to Himself in the plural? | Islam Ahmadiyya

I don't know that much about the Qur'an except what Baha'u'llah has quoted, but in the Writings of Baha'u'llah, speaking as the Voice of God, Baha'u'llah, often says "We" and I believe he is referring to to God and all the Manifestations of God (including Himself) collectively, since they are all the same Spirit of God. It could be the same in the Qur'an. For example:

“Say: We have caused the rivers of Divine utterance to proceed out of Our throne, that the tender herbs of wisdom and understanding may spring forth from the soil of your hearts. Will ye not be thankful? They who disdain to worship their Lord shall be of those who are cast off. And oft as Our verses are rehearsed unto them, they persist in proud disdain, and in their gross violation of His law, and know it not. As for them who have disbelieved in Him, they shall be in the shadow of a black smoke. “The Hour” hath come upon them, while they are disporting themselves. They have been seized by their forelock, and yet know it not.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 43

Here is another passage.... I believe that We refers to God and all the Manifestations of God collectively, since they are all the same Spirit of God.

“Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.”” Gleanings, p. 52

 

[rational experiences]

One word.
The Answer.
One statement for one word is to use describe the meaning why you state a one word answer for one description by worded description.

God can only equal one word God.

A father is not a father until sex with a female to create a baby is physically chosen.

The man adult was never the baby form. As a man is first sperm owner.

Sperm is not a man nor a baby.

So if you try to compare creation as God and a God son first you know it is not compared to your man penis owner life. Man as adult. Man as a father or man as a baby as a son.

Science can then quote no man was God or son of god via his owned father man status. Father just as a man. A male baby who becomes in growth a man adult.

When you ask a human were you telling the truth about the God of science.

If you want to talk the God of man in life we live by gods spirits existing supporting what space conditions allowed to form. Water mass.

Humans say the nature garden oxygenated our life water. Our mother womb of God as space gave us our life spirit water body presence itself.

Mother's nature described is garden present plus water oxygenated is the spirit body we exist by. Yet we also die.

Reason.......
irradiation owned by God mass history of form that was once radiating. Cooled. Is lesser radiating.

Increase radiation God then attacks the holy nature of the mother human explained.

God does not die as God is explained in human science as the stone mass entombed deceased spirit as stone.

We are not the spirit explanation of what can never die.

Why a scientist asked a human who dies why they think their human body form lived on as God.

Human answer my living life gets recorded in heavens by voice and image and remains as a record when I die.

Self teachings ignored as coercive preaching took over.

 

[Soapy]

Thanks for your responses so far …. But could you all keep the responses towards the CHRISTIAN / JEWISH DOCTRINE from the Torah and New Testament.

The thread appears to be swinging towards the Quran and trinity stuff WITHOUT REGARD to the thread question:

• How is it shown that a Son is equal to his Father

There are plenty of threads about the Quran and trinity (though I don’t want to disregard RELEVANT responses pertaining to the thread questions from either of these beliefs) so:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE…​

try to show where such an ideology, a belief, a doctrine, an idea, THAT A SON IS EQUAL TO HIS FATHER came from USING THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.

I see that a trinitarian responded that a person created in the image of God shares the nature of God and is therefore equal to God.

Now this is interesting how this is expressed seeing that:

• ADAM was created in the image of God

but the poster says that Adam is not equal to God.

And the trinity poster quoted a well known (and misinterpreted) verse from Philippians 2, wherein Jesus is said to:

• ‘Not regard EQUALITY with God something to be GRASPED’

It can easily be seen the absurdity here in the suggestion EITHER THAT:

• Jesus was EQUAL TO GOD and decided he didn’t want to be God anymore

Or

• Jesus, though having the power and authority of God, did not regard BEING EQUAL TO GOD as something to REACH OUT AND TAKE TO HIMSELF / TAKE HOLD OF / GRASP
  • This, ‘Having the power AND AUTHORITY of God’ we know from Jesus himself who told the disciples that he had been GRANTED it by the Father at the end of his mission but before he was crucified… BUT the POWER was from when he was ANOINTED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT. He had the POWER of God:
    • ‘How God anointed the man Jesus with the Holy Spirit and with power’
  • but he had to PRAY THE FATHER in order TO USE IT:
    • ‘Father, I know you always hear me, but for these people standing by I spoke openly so they will know that this [resurrection of Lazarus] I am about to perform is FROM YOU…’(paraphrased)

Besides, the verse in Phil 2 refers Jesus as putting himself in a lower position even though having the greater power. This, in no way, proclaims him as GOD, seeing that GOD never ever can be in a lower position than the creature that he created… the Son, no matter HOW MUCH the Father grants him, could ever be greater or even EQUAL to him who granted him these things…

ipso facto: Phil 2 does not show an example of Son being EQUALITY WITH THE FATHER.

Moreover, how do you read ‘THE SON being EQUAL TO GOD’ (p.s. is this then not TWO persons … one of whom is GOD… JESUS AND GOD don’t make ONE PERSON, one Deity. Moses was gifted with the power of God but no one says that Moses was God… (‘WAS’…. Being ‘the God’ is not something taken up and put down)

So the trinity view is already at odds with itself on this issue even from its first principles.

Is there any evidence FROM THE SCRIPTURES that:

• A SON IS EQUAL TO HIS FATHER…

What is the basis for this apparent belief and how is it realised: e.g. if a Father has more than one Son.

As far as I read, the only Father/son relationship in regard to things such as this is that the eldest son inherited THE LION’S SHARE of his Father’s estate… which in no way makes him EQUAL to his Father…

 

[Soapy]

I think the Bible indicates the son has the authority as his father does, but not equal.

That was my thought when I was a Christian.

The Son was GRANTED to have authority over all created things …. But that was AFTER he had fulfilled his mission:

• “At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.”
  All things have been committed to me by my Father.

It pleased the Father to so do to the Son… the Son did not do as he pleased but did as he was taught and commanded. The Son was taught by the Father but the Son does not teach the Father… EQUALITY is commutative like the ‘equal’ sign in a math equation.

Can I say: ‘Is the Father EQUAL to the Son’ and get an answer of ‘Yes’? I don’t think so! So that is NOT commutative!!

But in any case, the Son, Jesus, was GRANTED ‘POWER’ at his baptism BUT NOT ‘AUTHORITY’. When he needed to use the power that was granted to him he always first prayed the Father FOR the Authority to use it.

If the Son had to ask to use what he was given then this means he was not EQUAL to the one who gave him the power.

Say, I give my son the keys to my car (Ha! Shows inequality right there!!) but that doesn’t mean he can drive the car as he pleases… he first says, ‘Dad, can I take the car out?’ or, ‘I’m going to take the car out!’ (Which is a kind of backhanded question!!! He informed me IN CASE I should say ‘Not today, Son’)

Remember that even though the son has the power from the Father, it is STILL the Father’s Power!!!

Remember that even me handing the keys to my car to my son, it is STILL my car!

Remember that even though GOD hands power and authority to Jesus… it is STILL GOD’s power and authority!

It is not SHARED… it BELONGS to the Father but the Son has use of it.

When Pharoah handed power and authority to Joseph to rule over the Famine, Pharoah STILL RETAINED HIS THRONE over the power and authority he ‘LOANED’ to Joseph… and that is positively the right way to see it.

When Mordeciah was handed the Seal of King XERXES to rule over the day of Purim to save the Jews, Mordeciah did not OWN the Seal… it still belonged to king Xerxes…

And these are all born out by the fact that the receiver GAVE BACK the power and authority after the task Yhwh were given it for was over and done:

• “For since death came through a man [ADAM], the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man [Jesus Christ]. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom [back] to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” (1 Cor 15:21-24)
• “For he [God] "has put everything under his [Jesus’] feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.“ (1 Cor 15:27-28)

These verses demonstrate a subordinate nature of the Son… not an equality of nature. The Son never GIVES to the Father anything that the Father did not first give to the Son…

I do not see how Trinitarians or Jewish ideology believes that a compliant and dutiful son is EQUAL to his Father.

So thinking that there was no such ideology, no such belief, and that the claim was made up to try to uphold a fallacy in trinity.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thanks for your responses so far …. But could you all keep the responses towards the CHRISTIAN / JEWISH DOCTRINE from the Torah and New Testament.

• How is it shown that a Son is equal to his Father

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE…​

try to show where such an ideology, a belief, a doctrine, an idea, THAT A SON IS EQUAL TO HIS FATHER came from USING THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS.

I am asking:

• If the Son receives what he has from the Father, how is the son equal to the Father who gave him what he has?
• Jesus is given all power and authority BY the Father ... but only did a period of time - and even so, the ‘all things’ did not mean ‘absolutely all things’ because the Father’s “Seat of Power” was not part of the deal.

Maybe the best approach is to show from Bible verses that the Son is not equal to His Father.
Obviously, if Jesus is not God, Jesus is not equal to His Father, God.

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God is greater than He is:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

If you want to see a list of verses that show that Jesus is not God: #1801 Trailblazer

 

[1213]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

I can, nowhere, find such a schema from Judaism or Christianity...

I would also like to know if there is such scripture, because Bible has Jesus saying this:

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

‘

 

[rational experiences]

Stone god was natural one first.

Not a sun consuming it's own body it was holding its hell within.

God as stone sealed.god was termed the seal presence.

Out of hot dense state volcano as stones spirits ejected it's inheritor heavens gases formed from within. God body.

Theory inferred comparison ownership status of God with its inheritor. The same. Body earth stone a father inference to womb space burning father's inheritor his son. Just gases.

Highest form cold not burning history. Earths heavens had cooled to clear cold. Stone as earth God cooled to non burning gas also. Father son in science statement the same.

Theist scientist stated then the sun's larger cooling bodies burst. Not like a planet mass holding form ejected it's body.

The sun attacked converted God earth set the cold clear gases alight once.

Science statement gods spirit was sacrificed as statement half body mass.

Was always scientific taught by men minds as males to proclaim a man's intelligence ownership using his words and descriptions about God.

In the same proclamation hence female human you don't own my words or my thoughts. I am more intelligent and you are a lesser human.

Exactly what he knows about his science man theist self.

Egotism.

Then attacked life by a fake thesis womb of space mother of God said the evil female science maths harmed his life body.

Exactly how it was once taught.

Men did it to self in science.

Men said it was agreeable as they developed their psyche destroyer agreement of men in science.

Human warned why spiritual mind changed.

 

[Soapy]

Thank you all for your responses so far.

However, I’m not getting the feeling that too many of the responses respect the question - and a sad few are invalid.

Can I state the question another way:

Is there a place for a Jewish / Christian belief by tradition that a Son of a Father is equal to the Father that he is the Son of.​

I am especially interested in the Torah (Old Testament) because it is with the Jews that such a tradition of thought might have started with - if there ever was such a tradition of thought, an ideology.

For myself, I see no such tradition of thought, no such ideology. Even if the Son (‘A Son’) FULLY inherited ALL that his Father has… and his would he do that WHILE the Father is living?), no tradition would automatically make the Son EQUAL to the Father who gave him his inheritance in full.

Furthermore, in the Torah it is rare to find a Father with only ONE SON. The Jews traditionally had many sons - and this was important for family survival and workload distribution. So, in fact, no ONE SON would ever inherit ALL that the Father has and could ever be possibly considered EQUAL to his Father.

So, and here’s where I’m heading:

It is claimed by trinitarian ideologists that THE JEWS believed that Jesus was calling himself ‘GOD’ when he said that

• ‘God is my Father’

because, saying what he said meant that Jesus

• “Making himself EQUAL to God’

Consider this exchange between Jesus and the Jews:

• Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?
  “We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”… Jesus replied “what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? (John 10:32-40)
• “For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.” (John 5:18)

This latter example has the Bible writer ADDING IN A COMMENT that it was MEANT that by Jesus calling God, his Father, he was CLAIMING EQUALITY WITH HIS FATHER.

But where is the evidence that there ever was a Jewish tradition that the Son of a Father was equal to his Father.

That’s the question I’m asking?

Are there any examples from the Torah or the New Testament expressing such an ideology?

OR WAS THAT COMMENT ADDED IN BY THE BIBLE TRINITARIAN TRANSLATORS in order to try to legitimise TRINITARIANISM?
(Actually it would be a failed attempt because nowhere is THREE PERSONS mentioned nor that Jesus was EQUAL to the Holy Spirit…. And, get this,
“Equality is COMMUTATIVE”…. It works ways between the two equality entities, therefore how is it to be answered when asked:

• “Is the FATHER equal to the Son”?
• “Is the Son EQUAL to the Holy Spirit”?

And even more importantly:

• Define “GOD”
• Define “Jesus is EQUAL to GOD”
• Explain “GOD gave Jesus everything - yet Jesus was equal to God”

I hope you can see that not all things written in the New Testament of the Christian scriptures should be taken at face value but needs greater in-depth study.

So, my answer:
Consider the accusation:

• Jesus said, ‘God is my Father’
• The ‘Jews’ were supposed to have said, ‘you, a man, are making yourself GOD because God is your Father!, you blaspheme!!!’
• Jesus DENIES calling himself God
• Yet trinitarian belief IS THAT Jesus was claiming to be God - EQUAL to GOD!

So:

• No, there was no such ideology from anyone ever. The words, ‘Making himself equal to God’ are FAKE!!!

And the verse in Phil 2 wherein Jesus is sad to:

• NOT CONSIDER EQUALITY WITH GOD A THING TO BE GRASPED…

says it again… Jesus did not consider himself EQUAL TO GOD (and how, as many have pointed out, he says,

• “The Father is greater than I”

In Phil 2, Jesus is GRANTED THE POWER OF GOD when he was ANOINTED… the scriptures tells us so… BUT, he was TESTED TO SEE IF HE WOULD ABUSE THAT POWERS … the greatest tempter tried his best to get Jesus to ABUSE THE POWER INVESTED IN HIM (Jesus).

• BUT INSTEAD, jesus HUMBLED himself and became a SERVANT TO HIS FELLOW MAN, a SERVANT in the SERVICE of his Father (God): Isaiah 42;1 has GOD saying about the Messiah (Jesus):
  • “BEHOLD MY SERVANT IN WHOM MY HEART DELIGHTS. I will put my Spirit on him and he will do my bidding and bring salvation to the nations”

No, folks, Phil 2 is not saying jesus was EQUAL TO GOD, not saying jesus was equal to his Father.

So, trinitarianism, which seeks to make the claim that Jesus is equal to God is patently incorrect ideology … DANGEROUSLY WRONG!