“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Dimi95]

In front of news reporters we hear people say, " Oh my God " and we know they are Not calling the reporter as their God.
Thomas could have been addressing God in front of Jesus, but Not meaning Jesus was literally God.
At Isaiah there Jesus is addressed as Mighty God, but Not as 'Almighty God'. God is a title.
Because God gave Jesus the resurrection power is why Jesus is ' Everlasting Father '
Father means: Life Giver. In the Resurrection (John 6:40,44) Jesus is the Life Giver but Not God.

Malachi 3
'I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,' says the Lord Almighty.

John 1:23
"I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord."

 

[Dimi95]

In front of news reporters we hear people say, " Oh my God " and we know they are Not calling the reporter as their God.
Thomas could have been addressing God in front of Jesus, but Not meaning Jesus was literally God.
At Isaiah there Jesus is addressed as Mighty God, but Not as 'Almighty God'. God is a title.
Because God gave Jesus the resurrection power is why Jesus is ' Everlasting Father '
Father means: Life Giver. In the Resurrection (John 6:40,44) Jesus is the Life Giver but Not God.

Ok , you have to understand what is transitivity to understand scriptute.

If a = b and b = c, then a = c

In Revelation 21 it says
He who was seated on the throne said, 'I am making everything new!' Then he said, 'Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.'
He said to me: 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.'.

So , we go to Revelation 22:6
'The angel said to me, 'These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.'

then
Revelation 22:12-16
'Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
'I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.'

Can you understand now?

 

[blü 2]

It is true that Jesus is God's envoy and not God. But The Son is not God's envoy, he is God.

As I understand it, in Christian contexts the Son is Jesus. In the Tanakh, David is also God's son by adoption (Psalm 2:7) ─ which is the way Mark's Jesus became the son of God, unlike the Jesuses of Paul and John, who pre-existed in heaven with God and were presumably part of God's creation of the heavenly beings, and unlike the Jesuses of Matthew or Luke, who were the result of divine insemination and must have got their Y-chromosome from God.

 

[Kenny]

Kenny… What does the word ‘GOD’ mean?

 

[Kenny]

Discuss the Greek with the King James English.
At Acts 28:6 B we find the letter 'a' inserted before the word god.
The same Greek grammar rule applies to John 1. KJV did Not insert the letter 'a' at John 1 but inserted 'a' at Acts 28:6 B.
I found according to Psalm 90:2 that God had No beginning. God is from and to everlasting ( No start No end )
Whereas pre-human heavenly Jesus was "in" the beginning - Revelation 3:14 B - he had a start, had a beginning.
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning. Jesus was never ' before ' the beginning as his God was.
Jesus truthfully answered as to who he was at John 10:36 " I am the Son of God "
Even the demons know who Jesus is according to Luke 4:41.

John 1:1, "The word was a god"

This is one of the most common verses of contention between the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians. This is a danger of polytheism

carm.org

Explanation of John 1:1

ntgreek.org

 

[Brian2]

How do you justify your Jesus creating everything BY HIMSELF if it was THE FATHER who created all thing THROUGH your Jesus???

I don't say that Jesus created everything by Himself. I say what the Bible says. YHWH created everything by Himself and that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are corporately YHWH and also individually, YHWH.

 

[soulsurvivor]

You just contradicted yourself.
You said Jesus is not God and then you said that the Son, who is Jesus, is God.

Yes. Jesus is the Son, but the Son is not Jesus alone. Jesus is just one of The Son's incarnations among many.

 

[YoursTrue]

John 1:1, "The word was a god"

This is one of the most common verses of contention between the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christians. This is a danger of polytheism

carm.org

Explanation of John 1:1

ntgreek.org

Oftentimes when others are quoted the substance might be wrong. Here's what I will say about this, Kenny, when Jesus was assailed by the Jews because he said he was the Son of God, he quoted a scripture, showing them that they, too, were saying they (humans -- and judges) were gods. They didn't like that. But yes, before that incident God's voice was heard from heaven at Jesus baptism declaring that Jesus was his beloved Son.
Mark 1 -
"In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Imagine Jesus hearing and experiencing that -- how wonderful.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes. Jesus is the Son, but the Son is not Jesus alone. Jesus is just one of The Son's incarnations among many.

Okay thanks, but that's news to me.

 

[Dimi95]

In front of news reporters we hear people say, " Oh my God " and we know they are Not calling the reporter as their God.
Thomas could have been addressing God in front of Jesus, but Not meaning Jesus was literally God.
At Isaiah there Jesus is addressed as Mighty God, but Not as 'Almighty God'. God is a title.
Because God gave Jesus the resurrection power is why Jesus is ' Everlasting Father '
Father means: Life Giver. In the Resurrection (John 6:40,44) Jesus is the Life Giver but Not God.

Another failed attempt to speculate what could have rather then looking at what was

John 20
Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, 'We have seen the Lord!'
But he said to them, 'Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.'
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you!' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.'
Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'. "

There is a reason why Thomas said what he said

 

[Soapy]

You are of course free to believe as you please.

I was simply correcting your statement that the NT nowhere says Jesus pre-existed in heaven, or created the material universe. Instead, each of Paul and the author of John make those claims. Meanwhile the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke give versions of Jesus that are incompatible with them.

Oooh, I’m so sorry… I wasn’t criticising… I thought I was emphasising your points - adding further details.

However, I have a spiritual eraser for writings that contain ‘balanced’ arguments. Justifying wrongdoings is all very well (John and Paul contain pre-existent claims) but indulging them leads to possible acceptance of them - a dangerous premise!!!

In my opinion Paul does not err so much as his writings were CORRUPTED Bible Hub the translators who were demanded to make it appear that Jesus was almighty God and had pre-existed before the ages.

In my opinion there is clear evidence that the relevant quotes are manipulations as they do not read correctly in any linguistically sense. The simple fact that God was alone, created all things BY HIMSELF, dismisses all claims of A-N-OTHER personage CLAIMING HIS GLORY.

Is it not clear to you that Satan must squalor the truth of God so that confusion reigns and ignorance persists, thus keeping unbalanced that which would seek to destroy him.

As for the book of John, it has always been a fascination to me from the very first time I read it. I obtained a booklet which expanded on the Bible text so as to TEST my understanding of what I thought John (of the author of John) was saying. But the more I read the more I comfort to see that there was much corruption in it AND much misinterpretation by those who hung their hat on the hooks of much of its [Trinitarian] claims.

For instance, Jesus WAS NOT CLAIMING TO BE ‘I AM’, GOD!!

The NAME OF GOD is not ‘I AM’, nor does anyone call themself by the DESCRIPTION of their name. Almighty God DESCRIBED himself to Moses (‘I am who/what I am’) and chose a short form of if gif His name (‘I AM’)… But that is not really what is said….

The translators of the scriptures SHOULD NOT HAVE WRITTEN ‘I AM’, but rather, ‘YHWH’ (or whatever Hebrew letters are correct from the Tetragrammaton). The pronunciation WOULD NOG HAVE BEEN ‘I AM’… but correctly ‘however ‘YHWH’ is pronounced, just as the Hebrew name of people is not the description but Hebrew / Greek / Latin / English version - Jesus, for instance, IS NOT CORRECT… it is like ‘YESHUA’ or even ‘JOSHUA’. The point being that ‘YESHUA’ is the name, ‘Rescuer / Saviour / Deliverer’ is the description (its meaning). When in scriptures do we ever read of something like “Rescuer chose 12 disciples…’? No, it is ‘Yeshua chose 12 disciples…’. The name, not the description.

Similarly, PETER translates as ‘The Rock / Little Pebble / Stone’ (of some such). But we do oh go around saying like: ‘The PETER that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness was CHRIST’.

The point? Jesus DID NOT SAY, ‘Before Abraham, GOD’… Why is it believed that Jesus was ‘Calling himself God’? “I AM” IS NOT GOD!!!
The test of this is quite simple… EVERY DAY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD IN ONE LANGUAGE OR ANOTHER SAY IN THEIR UTTERANCES ‘I AM’… are they all or any calling themselves ‘GOD’?

In the very next chapter after the so-called ‘I am’ issue, a man healed of his blindness is asked if he really was blind… he answers, ‘I AM’…. Need I say more?

Who really IS BLIND?

In fact, Jesus was SIMPLY answering the Jews who asked Yeshua (I will say ‘Jesus’ now) if he was greater than their forefather, Abraham. Jesus said… ‘Yes, I am greater than Abraham’ (paraphrased)… Jesus explained his reasoning saying that Abraham was told by God that the RESCUER would be a Son from his own loins and God showed Abraham the glory of what was to come through him (Saw the glorious day of the messiah) and was glad… So, indeed, he who was to come will be greater than him whom God almighty called ‘Friend’ and set the covenant through him. If the glory of the Covenant holder was mighty, how much more mighty is the glory of him in whom the covenant is fulfilled?

The Jews were so angry that what appeared to be a young man (not yet fifty years old) could have the audacity to claim greatness above their great ancestor, Abraham. So they took up stones (Peter!!!!?) to (Peter..!!) him!!

Now, it is not the author that made the claim that Jesus was calling himself ‘God’, but rather those who chose to translate it into trinitarian belief. But remember that the writing are GREEK now translated to Latin, and now English. By the time of the writings down of the gospels there were many HELLENISED JEWS amongst the apostles, or at least, those who claim to be Apostles. And what did hellenised Jews believe??? So would it not be natural for them to attempt to make the scriptures fit they’d version of events - at the end of the day, ‘He who writes the scrolls is greater than he who spoke the words to go in them’ (So to say!)

And, the worst mis-translation (disingenuous) is John 1:1. This makes out that there were TWO creations:

• The Genesis event in which GOD created the world and all things in it… and
• John’s event in which JESUS created the world and all things in it

Which, taken without discernment, is taken to mean JESUS IS GOD ALMIGHTY.

The watch word for all true believers is ‘Read with discernment’… ‘Reader Beware’ …

 

[Soapy]

View attachment 88200

Excellent, Kenny… if I were asking the question “WHO IS GOD”?

But just in case you didn’t quite understand my question: I wanted to know from you WHAT the word ‘GOD’ means (to you!)

 

[Soapy]

I don't say that Jesus created everything by Himself. I say what the Bible says. YHWH created everything by Himself and that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are corporately YHWH and also individually, YHWH.

You said before that Jesus and God are YHWH.
Now you include the Spirit of God also as YHWH.

How many more entities are you going to add to your multi-God belief?

As an addition(?) where do you say you believe the Bible says that Jesus and the Spirit of God are ‘corporally’ YHWH?

Please show me a chapter and verse rendering. Thanks.

 

[Soapy]

I get my belief from the Writings of Baha'u'llah and His successors.

And who are ‘Baha'u'llah and His successors’?

What are their beliefs and are they Christian (whatever ‘Christian’ means!)

 

[Kenny]

Oftentimes when others are quoted the substance might be wrong. Here's what I will say about this, Kenny, when Jesus was assailed by the Jews because he said he was the Son of God, he quoted a scripture, showing them that they, too, were saying they (humans -- and judges) were gods. They didn't like that. But yes, before that incident God's voice was heard from heaven at Jesus baptism declaring that Jesus was his beloved Son.
Mark 1 -
"In those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As soon as Jesus came up out of the water, He saw the heavens breaking open and the Spirit descending on Him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Imagine Jesus hearing and experiencing that -- how wonderful.

I agree totally with what you are saying here and thank you for sharing.

The way I see it here is the same way I see our covenant...

Abraham’s Covenant (with a parenthetical Mosaic Covenant) and then returning to the Abrahamic Covenant with Jesus.

likewise

The Word (with a parenthetical manifestation of Jesus in human form) and back to fully The Word.

There are other reason too why I believe it had to be God in the flesh as well as why The Word had to be cone flesh. That being that only God can save and no angel had the capacity to absorb the sins of mankind and remain solvent. As well as it was the only legal way for God to accomplish this, to abide by His own dictates of coming through the legal door of a woman, are regain the authority that Adam had given away as He came as the last Adam.

 

[Kenny]

Excellent, Kenny… if I were asking the question “WHO IS GOD”?

But just in case you didn’t quite understand my question: I wanted to know from you WHAT the word ‘GOD’ means (to you!)

It is in the definition and definitions.

He is the I AM.

Who do you think He is?

What or “WHO" is the Word of God? The second part of the Godhead. Much like mankind, spirit, soul and body. The body is the least important and the spirit of man is greater than the soul of man but all are necessary to be one complete man (or woman)

 

[Soapy]

It is in the definition and definitions.

He is the I AM.

Who do you think He is?

What or “WHO" is the Word of God? The second part of the Godhead. Much like mankind, spirit, soul and body. The body is the least important and the spirit of man is greater than the soul of man but all are necessary to be one complete man (or woman)

So you are expressing what is lacking in your understanding… the very lack of an understanding…

Thanks.

By the way, the word, ‘God’, means ‘The greatest’, ‘Majestic’, ‘Heroic’, … anything of greatness in any context. A SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE…

Satan was the GOD of the Lie.
Satan was the GREATEST of all liars.

‘GOD is GOD of all who are called GODS’
‘He who is OUR GREAT RULER is MIGHTIEST of all who we call MIGHTY’

There were MIGHTY MEN sent from GOD.
They were GODS …
You’ve seen that in the previous post to before this one.

All DEITIES in every religious belief ARE GODS…
Each is A GOD… glorious, wonderful, fantastical, powerful, majestic, intelligent, wise… by context of the belief of their worshippers. Each ‘GOD’ (‘God’ is a title - nor a name!) is given a NAME by which to identify them, to direct prayers, petitions, worship to explicitly.

But in Jewish and Christian belief, there is only ONE DEITY, one God. And BECAUSE OF THAT there WAS no need for an identifier - they just called him by THE TITLE ‘GOD’.

When the Jews came fully in contact with the Egyptians, they began to be jealous that their one God did not have a name in contrast to the Egyptian Gods who each had a personal name.

Moses was told BY the ONE GOD to call Him “YHWH”. And so it is throughout the Tanakh and Torah, the Old Testament. But, the name became out if use due to it being misused and the Jews fearing that by using it they might offend their one God. So they went BACK to just calling Him ‘GOD’… nothing wrong as they only had the one - no one would get confused thinking they were worshipping the wrong ‘God’. Imagine a Principal in a school with a strange name. The children feared speaking the name of the principal as they might say it incorrectly and offend him… so they just addressed him as ‘[The] Principal’.

But PRINCIPAL is a TITLE… it’s not his NAME. Principal means ‘The Head of the School’ (or whatever), the One whom dictates the running of things, the greater motivator, the one who RULES, the one whom all highest matters are directed to. And so it is like that with YHWH.

Kenny, have a good rethink before things go bad for you!!

 

[Kenny]

So you are expressing what is lacking in your understanding… the very lack of an understanding…

Thanks.

By the way, the word, ‘God’, means ‘The greatest’, ‘Majestic’, ‘Heroic’, … anything of greatness in any context. A SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE…

Satan was the GOD of the Lie.
Satan was the GREATEST of all liars.

‘GOD is GOD of all who are called GODS’
‘He who is OUR GREAT RULER is MIGHTIEST of all who we call MIGHTY’

There were MIGHTY MEN sent from GOD.
They were GODS …
You’ve seen that in the previous post to before this one.

All DEITIES in every religious belief ARE GODS…
Each is A GOD… glorious, wonderful, fantastical, powerful, majestic, intelligent, wise… by context of the belief of their worshippers. Each ‘GOD’ (‘God’ is a title - nor a name!) is given a NAME by which to identify them, to direct prayers, petitions, worship to explicitly.

But in Jewish and Christian belief, there is only ONE DEITY, one God. And BECAUSE OF THAT there WAS no need for an identifier - they just called him by THE TITLE ‘GOD’.

When the Jews came fully in contact with the Egyptians, they began to be jealous that their one God did not have a name in contrast to the Egyptian Gods who each had a personal name.

Moses was told BY the ONE GOD to call Him “YHWH”. And so it is throughout the Tanakh and Torah, the Old Testament. But, the name became out if use due to it being misused and the Jews fearing that by using it they might offend their one God. So they went BACK to just calling Him ‘GOD’… nothing wrong as they only had the one - no one would get confused thinking they were worshipping the wrong ‘God’. Imagine a Principal in a school with a strange name. The children feared speaking the name of the principal as they might say it incorrectly and offend him… so they just addressed him as ‘[The] Principal’.

But PRINCIPAL is a TITLE… it’s not his NAME. Principal means ‘The Head of the School’ (or whatever), the One whom dictates the running of things, the greater motivator, the one who RULES, the one whom all highest matters are directed to. And so it is like that with YHWH.

Kenny, have a good rethink before things go bad for you!!

Yes… I see that you have not addressed the very direct and simple statement

In the beginning was THE WORD, THE WORD was WITH GOD and the WORD WAS GOD!

Nothing was made without GOD THE WORD, and in HIM was life and the life was the light of man.

Usually, when we present a simple statement, a thesis ensues that doesn’t address the issue and usually has as a subtitle along the lines of "the very lack of an understanding"

 

[Soapy]

Yes… I see that you have not addressed the very direct and simple statement

In the beginning was THE WORD, THE WORD was WITH GOD and the WORD WAS GOD!

Nothing was made without GOD THE WORD, and in HIM was life and the life was the light of man.

Usually, when we present a simple statement, a thesis ensues that doesn’t address the issue and usually has as a subtitle along the lines of "the very lack of an understanding"

Your lack of understanding does you much incredulity…. You are amazing - the God of the ignorant!

I just outlined to you the meaning of the word, ‘God’… Yet you claim I did not address it.

The word [OF GOD] WAS GOD…

‘Nothing was made except that which God’s Word created’ because nothing was created that God did not SPEAK to be created:

• ‘Let there be light…’
• ‘Let there be … this, that, and everything that ever is to be…’Angels, Sea, land, microbes, insects, mammals, fish, birds, and finally, Human Beings…

That which [the one] GOD [of the Jews] spoke … the word that which created all things … was … THE MEANING OF ‘GOD’:

• Monumental, majestic, all powerful, all mighty, the greatest, the Ruling … word:

And that word was:

• ‘Let there be light!!’

Kenny, tesf youf understanding: What is a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE? How is it used in a sentence; give an example…

I’ll give you one: ‘The God of the Jews is God of all Gods’…

What do you say to that?

The word of God was God of all words spoken by God!!

An envoy taught by the king and sent by the king to a far off people speaks the word to them that was taught to him by the king: That envoy is therefore ‘The word of the king’…

Those words are mighty indeed… the word of the king promises - and what that king promises must be fulfilled - therefore the word is GOD (sacrosanct; mighty; powerful; majestic; all powerful, ruling!)

It has nothing to do with Jesus except that the coming of the messiah was a certainty - as is all words spoken by God!!

In the book of Revelation Jesus HAS ON HIS THIGH the word ‘Word of God’. This is not the same as ‘The word’ that is in John 1:1. In revelation it means the fulfilment of all that God spoke… Jesus is fulfilling GOD’s utterances. Jesus is illustrated as a WARRIOR KING - John 1:1 is speaking of CREATION… not an act of a WARRIOR!

It’s no point talking about ‘He/Him/It’ because that is just a decision made by the TRANSLATOR… it carries no linguistic priority. ‘WISDOM’ is portrayed as a ‘SHE’, a female gender… does that make Wisdom a WOMAN?

A Table is given a female gender (presumably because IT can get laid!!!) “SHE can get…”
A BOAT is female gendered… presumably because …. !!!

Powerful things of God (as opposed to SOFTENING, GENTLE, NURTURING, LOVING … aspects) are MALE gendered to emphasise exactly that they are powerful But that does not mean the ‘He’ used by the interpreter / translator .. is a PERSON!!

Everyone speaks a WORD!! This means something they are absolute about - a declaration - an asurety - “I give you my WORD”!

Kenny, my word to you is strength wisdom and truth. If you deny it then you are denying GOD of the Jews, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of Jesus, and the saints and all true believers…

Choose YOUR NEXT WORD CAREFULLY AND WITH HOLY WISDOM, in spirit and in truth - Amen - so let it be!!

 

[Kenny]

Your lack of understanding does you much incredulity…. You are amazing - the God of the ignorant!

YUP! Attack the messenger because you can’t address the message

I’ll give you one: ‘The God of the Jews is God of all Gods’…

Psalm 96:5
For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

So Jesus is an idol

got it.