“The Son is equal to his Father”

[Soapy]

Well, except for the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John, you're right.

Paul tells us

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

The universe exists through Paul's Jesus, in other words, because God required it. (I recall coming across another quote somewhere in Paul to the same effect, but I can't recalL right now where that was.)

Well, since Paul did not know of Jesus Christ until his encounter in the road to Damascus, it seems unlikely that he would have understood anything about a pre-existence.

John’s gospel is a mishmash by Trinitarians in which John glorifies himself as being “Jesus’ favourite disciple’… And that’s not a good look for one who was taught by Jesus himself to ‘Put yourself last if you want to be concise red as first!’.

And the author of John tells us of Jesus, as the logos that

John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God; 3 all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.​

The verse, and that of the one before it, are misinterpreted for the trinitarian ear. The term ‘word [of God]’ in John 1:1 is exactly that: ‘The utterance of God’.

In the beginning, we are told in Genesis 1:1, etc, GOD CREATED ALL THINGS…

However, John is supposedly telling us that THAT WORD uttered by God… was Jesus… A pre-existent entity that is nowhere mentioned, stated, nor even suggested, BY GOD. The ‘true Jesus’ is only stated AS A FUTURE COMING MESSIAH, the prophesied ‘Seed of a woman’.

Later, even Abraham was appraised of ‘Jesus’ as being ‘From his (Abraham’s) Loins’ and Abraham FORSAW that glorious time of HIS OFFSPRING ‘and was glad’!!

Further down in time, the prophet Isaiah was given the word of God to foretell of this same coming Messiah:

• ‘Here is my servant, my chosen one in whom I am well pleased. I will put my spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations’ says the Lord God, YHWH!!

There are, of course, many other verses stating who the messiah would be and the time of his coming and what he will do. None of them claim that the messiah pre-existed not was the creator of anything. There is though, through the same Isaiah, the prophesy that this Messiah will BECOME the EVERLASTING Father of all whom are GIVEN LIFE at the end of time at the judgement seat… the term ‘Father’ means, ‘He who gives life’… and, of course, since this will be an everlasting life in paradise and Heaven (as appropriate to their deeds) this would indeed make Jesus Christ an Everlasting ‘Father’.

So both Paul and the author of John think of Jesus as a being pre-existing in heaven with God, who on God's behalf created the material universe. This ties in with aspects of gnosticism, where God is conceived as being utterly pure spirit, and utterly remote, so that it would be unthinkable for [him] to create anything so vulgar as a material universe. Thus the job falls to the demiurge ("craftsman") to do that, and thus these two versions of Jesus appear to be demiurges. The 'utterly remote' part accounts for John 17, where that Jesus explains that material beings can be one with God by being one with him, Jesus, thus bridging the gap between material (human) and pure spirit (God).

The issue with ‘Being with God’ iz that scriptures, and GOD IN SPECIFICS, says that He was ALONE!!

God created the Angels as management, supervisors, and workers in the creation of all things. He created them as MIGHTY SPIRITS, IMMENSELY INTELLIGENT, and INCREDIBLY POWERFUL, WISE and FREE-WILLED.

But though they are free-willed, theh must only operate WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF HOLINESS. They are not ROBOTS as we would create such TOOLS. Even now, humans are building, creating, using AUTONOMOUS entities (ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE) which operate (not unfaultlessly!!!) in the world BECAUSE, as God creates, so do his IMAGE IN MAN… We are ‘FATHERS’ of creation IN the PHYSICAL WORLD, just as GOD is THE FATHER of Spirits in the SPIRIT WORLD!!

None of that is found in the three synoptic Jesuses, of course. One is an ordinary Jewish young man until God adopts him, and the other two are the result of divine insemination of a virgin, and thus have God's Y-chromosome.

I do not ever speak of x of Y chromosome. I do not believe that Jesus’ creation had anything to do with such matters as they are aspects of HUMAN REPRODUCTION (PRO-CREATION). Jesus, in my opinion, in my belief, is a CREATION which echoed the creation of the FIRST MAN, Adam. This is backed up Bible Hub scriptures which classes Jesus as ‘THE SECOND ADAM’ and ‘THE LAST ADAM’.

Why ‘… Adam’? Because the first Adam was a miraculous CREATION … GOD CREATES - God does not PROCREATE… only creation Procreates!!!

The body of Adam was made of ‘Dust of the earth’… the body was inert, inactive, dormant… THEN GOD PUT THE SPIRIT OF THE MAN INTO the BODY AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.

The seed, the egg, in a woman, is inert, dormant, inactive… FLUSHED OUT IN AN UNDIGNIFIED MANNER from a woman once a month… this is pure biology!!! A HUMAN BEING is only PROCREATED when the LIVING SPIRIT OF A MAN, THE SPERM, ENLIVENS THAT EGG and it is GIVEN LIFE… This, too, is pure biology!!

But, in Jesus’ case THERE WAS NO HUMAN ENLIVENING SPIRIT. The child given LIFE was from the SPIRIT OF GOD … ‘The spirit if God shall overshadow you (Mary) and you shall conceive a child… And he WILL BE HOLY!’

He will be holy because the Spirit if God is HOLY. The Spirit of Man is ‘sinful’ (due to Adam’s sin) therefore all procreations contain POTENTIAL spirits of sinfulness.

God did not put the Spirit of Jesus into that egg in Mary… God put in A PURE SPIRIT that created a NEW MAN …WHO HE DORECTED to BE NAMED ‘YESHUA’ (JOSHUA / JESUS) because the new man was to ‘Save his people’.

It is to be noted that ‘Jesus’ spent 30 years in service to man and God PROVING HIMSELF WORTHY OF GOD before God called to service saying, ‘In him I am well pleased’.

In respect of an ‘Adoption’, God had watched over Jesus’ life for 30 years and saw that Jesus fully, faithfully, dutifully, and reverentially did as God desired him to do. It is for this reason, therefore, that God ‘Adopts’ Jesus AS SON…

The term, ‘Son’ means:

• ‘He who does the works of [him who gives him the works]’

Therefore, Scriptures tells us:

• ‘All who are led by the Spirit of God ARE CHILDREN OF GOD’.

And Jesus, himself, says:

• ‘I only said that God is my Father … because I do the works of my Father’ (paraphrased).

Jesus calls himself ‘the Son of God’ BECAUSE he is doing THE WORKS GOD GAVE HIM TO DO!!!

Correspondingly, Jesus calls some of the Jews, ‘Son of the Devil’ because they are;

• ‘Doing the works of the devil. [He who] is THE FATHER OF THE LIE’ (what does ‘Father’ mean?)

Therefore we get that the definition of a ‘Son’ in a spiritual manner IS NOT A PROCREATION but rather, a mindful attribute towards the one whom they revere (Their “Father’s”) attitude and behaviour.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I have been trying to research from the Christian Bible the idea that:

• ‘A son is equal to his Father’

Doesn't John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.” imply the equality?

 

[Soapy]

Paul tells us

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.​

How did things get so corrupted…

Explicitly, there is only one God, the Father.
‘From whom all things came’…

Then, one Lord ‘THROUGH WHOM ARE ALL THINGS…’

How is are these two claims congruous?

Moreover, since Jesus had already died, risen, and gone to Heaven by the time of Paul’s encounter with Jesus, Paul naturally speaks of Jesus POST DEATH and HEAVENLY SEATING. Jesus was GRANTED to bring the world to rights SO IT OS NATURAL that it should NOW BE Jesus who should be the sustainer of us. GOD HANDED OVER CREATION TO HIM and brought SATAN DOWN TO EARTH…
“I saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightening … woe TK the world because the prince of this world has come into his domain’.

 

[Soapy]

Doesn't John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.” imply the equality?

No, ‘I and the Father are one IN AGREEMENT with each other’.

There is no Science, no Maths, no Sensibility… in one thing being in subjection to another yet the two are EQUAL.

Do you never wonder that it is never said that ‘The Father is equal to the Son’?

The reason is that it would imply that a Father is equal to his own offspring… a lesser being… So the believers in Jesus being equal to the Father never declare that ‘Jesus IS EQUAL TO HIS Father’.

Trinitarians insincerely claim that a son is equal to his Father because THE FIRST SON INHERITS THE GREATER SHARE OF THE FATHER’S WEALTH…

Now, does that make sense to you? Note that the first son does not inherit ALL of the fathers wealth… Straightway that points to the Don being lesser because BEFORE HE DVDN INHERITS A PARTIAL (though greater than his brethren) portion, HE DOES NOG OWN ANY OF IT… INHERITS it WHEN his Father HANDS IT TO HIM or by default when the Father dies… !!

But there is more because ‘The First born Son’ is not necessarily the Son who INHERITS the greater share … it is, in fact, THE SON WHO PLEASES the FATHER THE MOST (a term known as ‘FIRSTBORN’ which is different to ‘FIRST BORN’ which is chronological birth order - trinity scriptures always translated to cause confusion!!) Scriptures points this out in many generations:

• Ishmael and Isaac
• Esau and Jacob
• Rueben and Joseph
• Eliab and David
• Amnon / Absolom / Adonijah and Solomon
• Adam was the First Son of God (Luke 3:38)… but Jesus is the ‘FIRSTBORN’ Son of God!!

Why did the ‘First Born’ (from the lust above) not REMAIN as ‘FIRSTBORN’ to their Father?

Was it that each of the FIRST BORN son SINNED and ‘Another is raised up to REPLACE HIM’?

 

[Soapy]

I think the Bible indicates the son has the authority as his father does, but not equal.

That was my thought when I was a Christian.

The authority that Christ Jesus has IS FROM THE FATHER, FROM GOD!!

God GRANTS Jesus the authority to
USE the Spirit to do miraculous deeds. Jesus ALWAYS prays to the Father before doing any miracles but he does so in private - the only time he let people know he did this was when he raised up Lazarus from the dead. Jesus told the people that he normally prays secretly but on this occasion so that they did not think he was a SORCERER or sins such, he prayed OPENLY for the SPIRIT OF GOD… and that it showed THAT IT WAS THE FATHER WORKING IN HIM THAT DID the DEED… not he, Jesus, himself!!!

The disciples did the same when they did miracles AND when they were baptised with the spirit of GOD they acquired powers IN THEMSELVES BUT they still gave glory to God so people didn’t think it was THEMSELVES that the power came from.

No one should ever think they are performing miracles IN THEIR OWN NAME (By their own power) - any legitimate miracles are ALWAYS FROM GOD!!!

Give God the Glory!!!

 

[Kenny]

So Jesus WAS NOT GOD but only expressed the spirit of God …

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

Easy, simply and black and white. What is there to discuss?

 

[Soapy]

Even in the material world, one may say: "I and my wife are one."
Does this mean the man is equal to his wife?!
Could you guess what it means?
If not, I am afraid that you also cannot understand, what Jesus meant when he says: "I and my Father are one.

In a human relationship of a marital kind there can only be one authority. Christian belief sets the man as the head of his wife and children.

This does not mean that the Father (Male) is in DICTATORIAL DOMINANCE… It means that the man has the final agreement. His wife may make a suggestion but he approves it… the children may ask gif something and the mother agrees but still requests an agreement from the Father.

Does this sound harsh? It shouldn’t. It means that both adults AGREE but they are not EQUAL… He may only say, ‘Yeah, ok’, or ‘No, and I’ll tell you why not…!’ and she agrees with his final decision unless there is some greater aspect not looked at yet and can be brought to the table.

Unfortunately the liberal society we live in today offends the strictness of the hierarchy that Gif set in place… and, of course, despicable males in a relationship have tormented their spouse leading to a break down and of course there are some males who have very poor leadership skills meaning that the wife has to take the leading role - sad - and his did he decided he wanted to marry her if he wanted to be ‘under her’ (no jokes!) Even the wife would be ANGRY that her husband cannot be ‘Her Head’ (I know of such relationships and the frustration it causes to the wife!!!)

 

[Soapy]

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

Easy, simply and black and white. What is there to discuss?

Kenny… What does the word ‘GOD’ mean?

 

[blü 2]

Well, since Paul did not know of Jesus Christ until his encounter in the road to Damascus, it seems unlikely that he would have understood anything about a pre-existence.

John’s gospel is a mishmash by Trinitarians in which John glorifies himself as being “Jesus’ favourite disciple’… And that’s not a good look for one who was taught by Jesus himself to ‘Put yourself last if you want to be concise red as first!’.


The verse, and that of the one before it, are misinterpreted for the trinitarian ear. The term ‘word [of God]’ in John 1:1 is exactly that: ‘The utterance of God’.

In the beginning, we are told in Genesis 1:1, etc, GOD CREATED ALL THINGS…

However, John is supposedly telling us that THAT WORD uttered by God… was Jesus… A pre-existent entity that is nowhere mentioned, stated, nor even suggested, BY GOD. The ‘true Jesus’ is only stated AS A FUTURE COMING MESSIAH, the prophesied ‘Seed of a woman’.

Later, even Abraham was appraised of ‘Jesus’ as being ‘From his (Abraham’s) Loins’ and Abraham FORSAW that glorious time of HIS OFFSPRING ‘and was glad’!!

Further down in time, the prophet Isaiah was given the word of God to foretell of this same coming Messiah:

• ‘Here is my servant, my chosen one in whom I am well pleased. I will put my spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations’ says the Lord God, YHWH!!

There are, of course, many other verses stating who the messiah would be and the time of his coming and what he will do. None of them claim that the messiah pre-existed not was the creator of anything. There is though, through the same Isaiah, the prophesy that this Messiah will BECOME the EVERLASTING Father of all whom are GIVEN LIFE at the end of time at the judgement seat… the term ‘Father’ means, ‘He who gives life’… and, of course, since this will be an everlasting life in paradise and Heaven (as appropriate to their deeds) this would indeed make Jesus Christ an Everlasting ‘Father’.

The issue with ‘Being with God’ iz that scriptures, and GOD IN SPECIFICS, says that He was ALONE!!

God created the Angels as management, supervisors, and workers in the creation of all things. He created them as MIGHTY SPIRITS, IMMENSELY INTELLIGENT, and INCREDIBLY POWERFUL, WISE and FREE-WILLED.

But though they are free-willed, theh must only operate WITHIN THE PARAMETERS OF HOLINESS. They are not ROBOTS as we would create such TOOLS. Even now, humans are building, creating, using AUTONOMOUS entities (ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE) which operate (not unfaultlessly!!!) in the world BECAUSE, as God creates, so do his IMAGE IN MAN… We are ‘FATHERS’ of creation IN the PHYSICAL WORLD, just as GOD is THE FATHER of Spirits in the SPIRIT WORLD!!

I do not ever speak of x of Y chromosome. I do not believe that Jesus’ creation had anything to do with such matters as they are aspects of HUMAN REPRODUCTION (PRO-CREATION). Jesus, in my opinion, in my belief, is a CREATION which echoed the creation of the FIRST MAN, Adam. This is backed up Bible Hub scriptures which classes Jesus as ‘THE SECOND ADAM’ and ‘THE LAST ADAM’.

Why ‘… Adam’? Because the first Adam was a miraculous CREATION … GOD CREATES - God does not PROCREATE… only creation Procreates!!!

The body of Adam was made of ‘Dust of the earth’… the body was inert, inactive, dormant… THEN GOD PUT THE SPIRIT OF THE MAN INTO the BODY AND THE MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.

The seed, the egg, in a woman, is inert, dormant, inactive… FLUSHED OUT IN AN UNDIGNIFIED MANNER from a woman once a month… this is pure biology!!! A HUMAN BEING is only PROCREATED when the LIVING SPIRIT OF A MAN, THE SPERM, ENLIVENS THAT EGG and it is GIVEN LIFE… This, too, is pure biology!!

But, in Jesus’ case THERE WAS NO HUMAN ENLIVENING SPIRIT. The child given LIFE was from the SPIRIT OF GOD … ‘The spirit if God shall overshadow you (Mary) and you shall conceive a child… And he WILL BE HOLY!’

He will be holy because the Spirit if God is HOLY. The Spirit of Man is ‘sinful’ (due to Adam’s sin) therefore all procreations contain POTENTIAL spirits of sinfulness.

God did not put the Spirit of Jesus into that egg in Mary… God put in A PURE SPIRIT that created a NEW MAN …WHO HE DORECTED to BE NAMED ‘YESHUA’ (JOSHUA / JESUS) because the new man was to ‘Save his people’.

It is to be noted that ‘Jesus’ spent 30 years in service to man and God PROVING HIMSELF WORTHY OF GOD before God called to service saying, ‘In him I am well pleased’.

In respect of an ‘Adoption’, God had watched over Jesus’ life for 30 years and saw that Jesus fully, faithfully, dutifully, and reverentially did as God desired him to do. It is for this reason, therefore, that God ‘Adopts’ Jesus AS SON…

The term, ‘Son’ means:

• ‘He who does the works of [him who gives him the works]’

Therefore, Scriptures tells us:

• ‘All who are led by the Spirit of God ARE CHILDREN OF GOD’.

And Jesus, himself, says:

• ‘I only said that God is my Father … because I do the works of my Father’ (paraphrased).

Jesus calls himself ‘the Son of God’ BECAUSE he is doing THE WORKS GOD GAVE HIM TO DO!!!

Correspondingly, Jesus calls some of the Jews, ‘Son of the Devil’ because they are;

• ‘Doing the works of the devil. [He who] is THE FATHER OF THE LIE’ (what does ‘Father’ mean?)

Therefore we get that the definition of a ‘Son’ in a spiritual manner IS NOT A PROCREATION but rather, a mindful attribute towards the one whom they revere (Their “Father’s”) attitude and behaviour.

You are of course free to believe as you please.

I was simply correcting your statement that the NT nowhere says Jesus pre-existed in heaven, or created the material universe. Instead, each of Paul and the author of John make those claims. Meanwhile the authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke give versions of Jesus that are incompatible with them.

 

[blü 2]

Doesn't John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.” imply the equality?

No, I don't think so. If you read John 17 you'll see that John's Jesus says that if you believe in him, then that will make you one with God in the same manner that Jesus is one with God ─ in other words, that this oneness is of a kind available to everyone.

And John's Jesus is particularly clear that he's God's envoy and he's NOT God eg

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

​

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “[...] go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

and many more.

 

[Dimi95]

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

Easy, simply and black and white. What is there to discuss?

Isaiah 6:
"He said, “Go and tell this people:
‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
'Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.'

 

[Dimi95]

No, I don't think so. If you read John 17 you'll see that John's Jesus says that if you believe in him, then that will make you one with God in the same manner that Jesus is one with God ─ in other words, that this oneness is of a kind available to everyone.

And John's Jesus is particularly clear that he's God's envoy and he's NOT God eg

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

​

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “[...] go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

and many more.

John 20:
"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you!' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe'.
Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Also Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

To talk about 'Father and Son' we have to go deep into doctrine...

Also , Me and you have unfinished discussion about NT , maybe we can open New Thread and we can discuss also the differences of the Four Gospels?

 

[soulsurvivor]

No, I don't think so. If you read John 17 you'll see that John's Jesus says that if you believe in him, then that will make you one with God in the same manner that Jesus is one with God ─ in other words, that this oneness is of a kind available to everyone.

And John's Jesus is particularly clear that he's God's envoy and he's NOT God eg

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

​

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “[...] go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

and many more.

It is true that Jesus is God's envoy and not God. But The Son is not God's envoy, he is God.

 

[soulsurvivor]

The reason is that it would imply that a Father is equal to his own offspring… a lesser being… So the believers in Jesus being equal to the Father never declare that ‘Jesus IS EQUAL TO HIS Father’.

You seem to take this Father-Son relationship is bit too literally in practically human terms. The Father and The Son are not relationships, they are titles. The Son may proceed from the Father as the Catholic creed says, but it does not mean the Father gives birth to The Son or creates him.

To use your inference when Jesus said he was the Son of Man does he mean a lesser thing? Does that make him an 'offspring'? In fact, Jesus probably never said he was the Son of God, but he said he was the Son of Man more than once.

 

[Trailblazer]

I preach this all the time… Deflection is they’d watchword … as you have done here.

To wit: I asked YOU where you get your ideas from and you deflected to ‘Many Christian’s’…!

So, I ask the question to you again…”Where do you get your belief from?”

I get my belief from the Writings of Baha'u'llah and His successors.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.
Easy, simply and black and white. What is there to discuss?

Discuss the Greek with the King James English.
At Acts 28:6 B we find the letter 'a' inserted before the word god.
The same Greek grammar rule applies to John 1. KJV did Not insert the letter 'a' at John 1 but inserted 'a' at Acts 28:6 B.
I found according to Psalm 90:2 that God had No beginning. God is from and to everlasting ( No start No end )
Whereas pre-human heavenly Jesus was "in" the beginning - Revelation 3:14 B - he had a start, had a beginning.
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning. Jesus was never ' before ' the beginning as his God was.
Jesus truthfully answered as to who he was at John 10:36 " I am the Son of God "
Even the demons know who Jesus is according to Luke 4:41.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.................................To use your inference when Jesus said he was the Son of Man does he mean a lesser thing? Does that make him an 'offspring'? In fact, Jesus probably never said he was the Son of God, but he said he was the Son of Man more than once.

I find in the Bible that Jesus did answer that he was ' the Son of God ' at John 10:36 B
Please notice what the devils knew according to Luke 4:41 that Jesus is the Christ ' the Son of God' .

 

[Dimi95]

Discuss the Greek with the King James English.
At Acts 28:6 B we find the letter 'a' inserted before the word god.
The same Greek grammar rule applies to John 1. KJV did Not insert the letter 'a' at John 1 but inserted 'a' at Acts 28:6 B.

Maybe we should discuss Greek from the very early sources
Do you understand Greek?

The noun logos derives from the Greek verb legein, meaning 'to say' something significant. Logos developed a wide variety of senses, including 'description', 'theory' (sometimes as opposed to 'fact'), 'explanation', 'reason', 'reasoning power', 'principle', 'ratio', 'prose'.

I found according to Psalm 90:2 that God had No beginning. God is from and to everlasting ( No start No end )
Whereas pre-human heavenly Jesus was "in" the beginning - Revelation 3:14 B - he had a start, had a beginning.
So, only God was ' before ' the beginning. Jesus was never ' before ' the beginning as his God was.
Jesus truthfully answered as to who he was at John 10:36 " I am the Son of God "
Even the demons know who Jesus is according to Luke 4:41.

So the problem is the interpretation , not the translation?

 

[Trailblazer]

It is true that Jesus is God's envoy and not God. But The Son is not God's envoy, he is God.

You just contradicted yourself.
You said Jesus is not God and then you said that the Son, who is Jesus, is God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

John 20:
"A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, 'Peace be with you!' Then he said to Thomas, 'Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe'.
Thomas said to him, 'My Lord and my God!'
Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
Also Isaiah 9:6
"For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."
To talk about 'Father and Son' we have to go deep into doctrine...
Also , Me and you have unfinished discussion about NT , maybe we can open New Thread and we can discuss also the differences of the Four Gospels?

In front of news reporters we hear people say, " Oh my God " and we know they are Not calling the reporter as their God.
Thomas could have been addressing God in front of Jesus, but Not meaning Jesus was literally God.
At Isaiah there Jesus is addressed as Mighty God, but Not as 'Almighty God'. God is a title.
Because God gave Jesus the resurrection power is why Jesus is ' Everlasting Father '
Father means: Life Giver. In the Resurrection (John 6:40,44) Jesus is the Life Giver but Not God.