‘Jesus was WITH GOD’ therefore Jesus WAS GOD?

[Muffled]

That’s fine, so long as you realize and remember that assessments of the veracity of hagiographic writings (that is, “of scripture”) are utterly subjective.

I do not believe so. It is God who supports the inspiration of Scripture and that is not me but God speaking through me.

 

[Muffled]

Since we’re discussing Biblical theology, it should be asked: did the Jews worship a trinity? No. Deuteronomy 6:4 is pretty clear. And what’s the *First* Commandment? Exodus 20:1-5 says to ‘worship Yahweh *only*; to not have any other gods against His face, for He is a jealous God.’

By adding Jesus and the Holy Spirit, trinitarians are not giving Yahweh the exclusivity He requires! But they don’t seem to grasp the dangerous position that puts them in. Even Jesus said “true worshippers worship the Father.”
John 4:23,24

I believe that is false by allowing God to be all that He wishes to be we honor His holy name.

 

[Muffled]

And yet Jesus and the Spirit of God are called YHWH in the scriptures.

I don't remember any verses so you will have to quote them. I do remember Him using AYAH.

 

[Brian2]

I don't remember any verses so you will have to quote them. I do remember Him using AYAH.

They are not direct statements. They are interpretations. I will give you one and if you want more, just ask.
John 5 is where Jesus tells us that the Father judges nobody but has left all judgement to the Son because the son is a man. (John 5:22,27)
When we compare this with the OT we see that it is YHWH who is coming to judge the earth. (Psalm 98:9 etc)
So putting these verses together tells us that the Son is YHWH.

 

[Soapy]

They are not direct statements. They are interpretations. I will give you one and if you want more, just ask.
John 5 is where Jesus tells us that the Father judges nobody but has left all judgement to the Son because the son is a man. (John 5:22,27)
When we compare this with the OT we see that it is YHWH who is coming to judge the earth. (Psalm 98:9 etc)
So putting these verses together tells us that the Son is YHWH.

Brian2, when did this delusion about ‘Jesus’ being ‘YHWH’, start?

Have you always believed this wrongful claim or are you just doing your big for the trinitarian ideology by creating yet another false belief… another manmade ‘Brian2’ belief in which you are your own prophets and God?

 

[Muffled]

They are not direct statements. They are interpretations. I will give you one and if you want more, just ask.
John 5 is where Jesus tells us that the Father judges nobody but has left all judgement to the Son because the son is a man. (John 5:22,27)
When we compare this with the OT we see that it is YHWH who is coming to judge the earth. (Psalm 98:9 etc)
So putting these verses together tells us that the Son is YHWH.

I believe YHWH is the same as the Father ie the Spirit of God outside a body, and Jesus is the Spirit of God in a body. So they are not the same thing. However God is judge no matter where He is.

 

[Brian2]

I believe YHWH is the same as the Father ie the Spirit of God outside a body, and Jesus is the Spirit of God in a body. So they are not the same thing. However God is judge no matter where He is.

Something like that I suppose. It can be hard to be pedantic and hard to know exactly what someone means when they start talking about these things.
But Jesus is the one who became a man, with a body and imo He has been the Son of God from eternity. He and the Father and the Spirit have all that time been not only united in agreement with each other but also united as one thing, God.
The Father is called the "only true God" however because He is the source of His Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Soapy]

I believe YHWH is the same as the Father ie the Spirit of God outside a body, and Jesus is the Spirit of God in a body. So they are not the same thing. However God is judge no matter where He is.

The Spirit of God is what is others call, ‘The Holy Spirit’.

Are you saying that Jesus is ‘the Holy Spirit’?

God is judge, sure. But God GRANTS THE ‘SON OF MAN’ to be DESIGNATED JUDGE OVER CREATION in His place JUST AS Pharoah designated Joseph to be judge in his place over the Famine UNTIL the famine was over - and KIMG XERXES grants the man, Mordeciah to act as king over Persia in his place during the day of Purim after which Mordeciah hands back rulership to king Xerxes.

 

[Soapy]

The Father is called the "only true God" however because He is the source of His Son and the Holy Spirit.

Wow, Brian2… are you STILL making scriptures up as you go along???

The Father is the only true God BECAUSE he IS the Only True God. How can there be a ‘Source’ of The Son from eternity past if the one true God was ALONE before creation?

But you are right in that the Spirit of God IS FROM GOD… obvious since IT IS OF GOD. It is the power and force of God acting in the world… not a PERSON (just in case you were going to say that!!)

As always, your posts contains aspects of truth mingled with a heap more falsities. Do you just amuse yourself posting as you do? Surely you know that the mass of what you post is not valid by scriptures?

Or do you not know that you are being manipulated and encouraged by dark forces?

 

[Brian2]

Wow, Brian2… are you STILL making scriptures up as you go along???

The Father is the only true God BECAUSE he IS the Only True God. How can there be a ‘Source’ of The Son from eternity past if the one true God was ALONE before creation?

Yes it is an interpretation since that seems to be the only difference between the Father and the Son, the Father is the source of the Son.

 

[Soapy]

Yes it is an interpretation since that seems to be the only difference between the Father and the Son, the Father is the source of the Son.

Ha ha ha… BRIAN2, you are hilarious….

The Father is the source of EVERYTHING….!!!

The world, and all within, are the creation of the Father. He is the source, designer, the creator, the energy, the power, for all that we see and also that which we don’t see, namely, the angelic agencies in Heaven.

 

[Muffled]

Something like that I suppose. It can be hard to be pedantic and hard to know exactly what someone means when they start talking about these things.
But Jesus is the one who became a man, with a body and imo He has been the Son of God from eternity. He and the Father and the Spirit have all that time been not only united in agreement with each other but also united as one thing, God.
The Father is called the "only true God" however because He is the source of His Son and the Holy Spirit.

I believe it is possible for the concept of Jesus to have existed from the beginning and certainly God who is in Jesus has always existed but the body of Jesus only came into being around 1 AD.

 

[Muffled]

The Spirit of God is what is others call, ‘The Holy Spirit’.

Are you saying that Jesus is ‘the Holy Spirit’?

God is judge, sure. But God GRANTS THE ‘SON OF MAN’ to be DESIGNATED JUDGE OVER CREATION in His place JUST AS Pharoah designated Joseph to be judge in his place over the Famine UNTIL the famine was over - and KIMG XERXES grants the man, Mordeciah to act as king over Persia in his place during the day of Purim after which Mordeciah hands back rulership to king Xerxes.

People use the term to refer to the Paraclete and The Paraclete is certainly the Spirit of God in believers.

I certainly believe God in Jesus is the Holy Spirit but that does not make Him the Paraclete.

I do not believe God allows anyone to take His place.

 

[Soapy]

People use the term to refer to the Paraclete and The Paraclete is certainly the Spirit of God in believers.

I certainly believe God in Jesus is the Holy Spirit but that does not make Him the Paraclete.

I do not believe God allows anyone to take His place.

• Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me….” (Matt 28:19)
• “For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.” (1 Cor 15:25)
• “Then the end will come, when [Jesus] hands over [hands back!!!] the kingdom to God, the Father, after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.” (1 Cor 15:24)

 

[syo]

This should be a very short debate:

• If Jesus was ‘WITH God’ how could he ‘BE GOD’?
• Who is ‘GOD’ that Jesus was ‘WITH’?

He is a lesser god, attached to god.

 

[Brian2]

I believe it is possible for the concept of Jesus to have existed from the beginning and certainly God who is in Jesus has always existed but the body of Jesus only came into being around 1 AD.

Theologians say that there are clues of the Trinity in the OT but that it needed the NT revelation for them to be interpreted as such in any real way.

 

[Soapy]

Theologians say that there are clues of the Trinity in the OT but that it needed the NT revelation for them to be interpreted as such in any real way.

Yes, and astronomers have fabricated evidence of life on Mars but it needed microscopic interpretation to show they were wrong.