10 commandments, for men only...

[waitasec]

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

deut 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?


in addition, are wives considered property cause it sure seems she is listed as such...
don't covet your neighbors
house (house is listed before wife in exodus)
wife
belongings
slave
ox
donkey

is it for men only?

 

[ChristineES]

More semantics. My goodness, just because they name only the males, doesn't mean they weren't for women, too. They just weren't politically correct thousands of years ago.

 

[waitasec]

More semantics. My goodness, just because they name only the males, doesn't mean they weren't for women, too. They just weren't politically correct thousands of years ago.

i think it's more than being politically incorrect. i think it is another indication that god was created in the image of men

think about it
in gen 3:16
god told eve, "man shall rule over you"

that was god speaking, right?

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Where did the number 10 come from? Why have so many commandments been split into two and others merged?

 

[Revoltingest]

Looks like loopholes to me.
You can covet your neighbor's husband, but only the wife is permitted to act upon it.

 

[Skwim]

Back then wives were permitted to covet whatever they wished, principally because they could do no more than that. It was a bone thrown to them because of their second class position. "Sure, wench, go ahead and fantasize about Ananias over there. In the mean time take off that heavy robe and com e'er."

 

[EverChanging]

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

deut 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?


in addition, are wives considered property cause it sure seems she is listed as such...
don't covet your neighbors
house (house is listed before wife in exodus)
wife
belongings
slave
ox
donkey

is it for men only?

Perhaps at least that commandment is. And yes, women are property according to these commandments, and slaves, of course. That's why these commandments are the basis of American law and should be posted in every courthouse. :/

 

[Madhuri]

More semantics. My goodness, just because they name only the males, doesn't mean they weren't for women, too. They just weren't politically correct thousands of years ago.

If the Bible is the word of God then why would it conform to a particular culture or attitude?

 

[linwood]

is it for men only?

Pretty much.

If you read the rest of the OT you`ll find women were simply the possessions of men with rules for their treatment, exchange, and sale.

 

[naikaidiver]

This and much of the wordings in the Bible and other texts are easily understood if you remember a few historical facts.

1. In the first century, and for several centuries later, common people were largely illiterate and could not read.

2. In the first several centuries, households, business, and daily activities were run by men. (Sorry ladies, the role you play in today's society is, for the most part, pretty new)

3. Political Correctness did not exist then. (again, pretty recent development)

4. It was the man's duty to listen to the early gospel, and then convey the teachings to the women and children during that time. Churches and organized religion came much later and even then, women weren't allowed in many early churches.

So you see, during the time when people (read: men) put the gospels to parchment for the first times, the culture of that time did not necessitate the need to include women in the commandments. In fact, the idea would have been judged "ludicrous" and met with much contempt.

 

[linwood]

So you see, during the time when people (read: men) put the gospels to parchment for the first times, the culture of that time did not necessitate the need to include women in the commandments. In fact, the idea would have been judged "ludicrous" and met with much contempt.

Yes because women were the property of men.

Read the book.

 

[naikaidiver]

Yes because women were the property of men.

Read the book.

No need to get snippy. It does nothing to further discussion.

If you read my entire post, we're saying the same thing in different ways. However, since you brought it up.... nowhere in the scriptures is it states plainly that "women are property" specifically. However, it was assumed that they were for many centuries due to "interpretations" of the book and they were subequently treated as such.

In some countries, they still are.

 

[linwood]

No need to get snippy. It does nothing to further discussion.

I`m not being snippy, this is how I always am.
You`re new, you`ll get used to it.

If you read my entire post, we're saying the same thing in different ways. However, since you brought it up.... nowhere in the scriptures is it states plainly that "women are property" specifically.

Gen 3:16To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.”

Exod 20:17
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Exod 21:7
“If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

Exod 22:16-17
16 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. 17 If her father absolutely refuses to give her to him, he must still pay the bride-price for virgins.

That`s pretty damned specific.
Women were the property of men in that bronze age culture every bit as much as their goats were their property.

However, it was assumed that they were for many centuries due to "interpretations" of the book and they were subequently treated as such.

In some countries, they still are.

"Interpretations?"
There are many parts of this book that are to be taken figuratively.
Exodus is not one of those parts, it is the law of God and is quite objective and straightforward with no contextual foundation for figurative interpretation.

 

[waitasec]

makes me think of why the christian religion has any dibs on the old testament ...
oh yeah, then it would seem as if christianity just sprouted up from nowhere
no roots to indicate it's authenticity

so with this new covenant god is nicer and more loving by sending his son to die for our sins...
he set it up so you need to sacrifice in order to be forgiven and you know god can't go back on his word except for things like
human trafficking
rape
slavery
genocide
gender inequality
is that right?

makes perfect sense to me :sarcastic

 

[mohammed_beiruti]

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

deut 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?


in addition, are wives considered property cause it sure seems she is listed as such...
don't covet your neighbors
house (house is listed before wife in exodus)
wife
belongings
slave
ox
donkey

is it for men only?

in Hebrew Bible they translated אשת to
the following meanings : woman, lady, girl, she; wife, spouse, feme, femme, helpmate, helpmeet, mulier

http://translation.babylon.com/hebrew/to-english/אשת/

 

[BruceDLimber]

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?

It has been made clear many times and in many places that, unless the context makes this impossible, religious laws apply mutatis mutandis to women equally as much as to men!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[waitasec]

It has been made clear many times and in many places that, unless the context makes this impossible, religious laws apply mutatis mutandis to women equally as much as to men!

Peace,

Bruce

it sure doesn't seem that way...
why not say, 'thou shall not covet your neighbors husband or your neighbors wife'?
because that would be a non starter, women were understood to be subjected as property...
"man shall rule over you" gen 3:16
the 10 commandments were directed towards men since it was a man's world

 

[Levite]

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

deut 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?


in addition, are wives considered property cause it sure seems she is listed as such...
don't covet your neighbors
house (house is listed before wife in exodus)
wife
belongings
slave
ox
donkey

is it for men only?

This is one of the prime examples of why we Jews understand that Written Torah was given and always supposed to be read with Oral Torah. Without the Oral Torah, and the tradition of exegetical meanings and constantly evolving reinterpretations, the Written Torah would become antiquated.

Written Torah was written in the style of language, and according to the cultural usages, of its original audience: a nation of farmers and shepherds in the Ancient Near East-- an androcentric society. But it was designed to never become permanently trapped in one cultural context-- hence Oral Torah, which allows it to be reinterpreted, understood in new ways, or merely expanded upon in exegesis, in order to clarify what we understand was always the intent.

And so we understand clearly, and have from the beginning, that the commandments apply also to women; and we have understood to some degree for many hundreds of years that women are not property. Today, Jewish feminist scholars of halakhah (Jewish law) are adding to the Oral Torah (all Jews in all generations add to Oral Torah, that's how it works) many clarifications concerning the independence, rights, and egalitarian obligations of women in Jewish society.

 

[waitasec]

This is one of the prime examples of why we Jews understand that Written Torah was given and always supposed to be read with Oral Torah. Without the Oral Torah, and the tradition of exegetical meanings and constantly evolving reinterpretations, the Written Torah would become antiquated.

Written Torah was written in the style of language, and according to the cultural usages, of its original audience: a nation of farmers and shepherds in the Ancient Near East-- an androcentric society. But it was designed to never become permanently trapped in one cultural context-- hence Oral Torah, which allows it to be reinterpreted, understood in new ways, or merely expanded upon in exegesis, in order to clarify what we understand was always the intent.

And so we understand clearly, and have from the beginning, that the commandments apply also to women; and we have understood to some degree for many hundreds of years that women are not property. Today, Jewish feminist scholars of halakhah (Jewish law) are adding to the Oral Torah (all Jews in all generations add to Oral Torah, that's how it works) many clarifications concerning the independence, rights, and egalitarian obligations of women in Jewish society.

the purpose for the oral torah was to soften the edges or blur the lines
in order to keep up with how society was evolving, which had nothing to do with god's intention...because "god" paved the way for this male dominated world-gen 3:16...

 

[Caladan]

Ex 20:17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

deut 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbor’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbor’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

seems to me, these commandments are directed to men?


in addition, are wives considered property cause it sure seems she is listed as such...
don't covet your neighbors
house (house is listed before wife in exodus)
wife
belongings
slave
ox
donkey

is it for men only?

Of course, these commandments have sprang from an absolutely male dominate society. if you take a look at cultures that retained these traditions such as in the middle east, you will see that the woman's life is dictated by her male family members such as father, brother, husband.
there is absolutely nothing surprising about this fact.
this tradition has also existed in my middle eastern side of the family, such as deciding who gets married to whom.