$100 million Muslim center planned 2 blocks from Ground Zero.

[Smoke]

Local Board Endorses Muslim Center Near Ground Zero - NYTimes.com

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who has led services in TriBeCa since 1983, told the board the center would help “bridge and heal a divide” among Muslims and other religious groups.​

Sorry, but I don't think this is going to heal anything. I think people are going to come from all over America to **** on this mosque.

 

[DeitySlayer]

No...just, no. Not because I'm being racist, but I truly believe this will not work. It's like building a Japanese museum next to Pearl Harbour or a German museum at Auschwitz. All it will do is raise tensions.

 

[Magic Man]

Local Board Endorses Muslim Center Near Ground Zero - NYTimes.com

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who has led services in TriBeCa since 1983, told the board the center would help “bridge and heal a divide” among Muslims and other religious groups.​

Sorry, but I don't think this is going to heal anything. I think people are going to come from all over America to **** on this mosque.

I debated this on another forum. If people come to **** on it, that's their problem. The idea is that most Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11, and most of them, including this Imam denounce the actions of the terrorists. People need to realize that Muslims aren't the problem, jihadists are.

I understand that most Americans don't want to and won't see that, but I don't blame them for the attempt to force people to realize their bigotry.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No...just, no. Not because I'm being racist, but I truly believe this will not work. It's like building a Japanese museum next to Pearl Harbour or a German museum at Auschwitz. All it will do is raise tensions.

You do realize that if you go to visit Pearl Harbor, one of the first things you'll see when you step off the plane is the Japanese garden at the Honolulu International Airport, right? You'll pass another one on the highway there.

 

[Smoke]

I understand that most Americans don't want to and won't see that, but I don't blame them for the attempt to force people to realize their bigotry.

I do. I don't think they should have been denied, because they have a right to do it. But they had to know it would be perceived as an insult to the people killed on 9/11, and that awareness makes it a deliberate insult. If anything, they're fanning the flames of bigotry.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do. I don't think they should have been denied, because they have a right to do it. But they had to know it would be perceived as an insult to the people killed on 9/11, and that awareness makes it a deliberate insult. If anything, they're fanning the flames of bigotry.

I wouldn't call it a "deliberate insult", but I wouldn't expect great things. I remember how after 9-11, a bunch of goons burned down a mandir not too far from me. The distinction between "good Muslims" and "bad Muslims" will probably be lost on the sort of people who can't even understand the difference between Muslims and Hindus.

 

[DeitySlayer]

You do realize that if you go to visit Pearl Harbor, one of the first things you'll see when you step off the plane is the Japanese garden at the Honolulu International Airport, right? You'll pass another one on the highway there.

When were they 'built'? Were they there before Pearl Harbour? Were they within ten years after Pearl Harbour? I raise this point because it is similar to the mosque. Islam did not sanction 9/11, but a 'subsection' of it did. The Japanese, as a nation, did not sanction Pearl Harbour; it was a military decision. It should not be so, but it is human nature to condemn 'by association'. Unfortunately, America is not going to change overnight; and so building the mosque is just going to raise tensions.

 

[Autodidact]

I'm strongly in favor. The idea is that the terrorists want to promote hate and division and an Islamic center open to the whole community promotes unity, peace and co-existence. In other words, it's a strong statement against the goals of the terrorists. Some 9/11 survivors are supporting the center for this reason.

 

[DeitySlayer]

I wouldn't call it a "deliberate insult", but I wouldn't expect great things. I remember how after 9-11, a bunch of goons burned down a mandir not too far from me. The distinction between "good Muslims" and "bad Muslims" will probably be lost on the sort of people who can't even understand the difference between Muslims and Hindus.

Or Sikhs and terrorists. Seriously, my Dad has had this like 3 times at the airport since 9/11 because he was wearing a turban.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Whatever the motives are of the people behind this, it is simply ill-advised, and it is pretty naive to think people aren't going to be offended by this, that Islamic terrorists won't see this as a personal victory, and that this would have any effect whatsoever on "bridging and healing the divide."

Basically, it's just silliness that will probably result in various people getting upset, offended, and/or harrassed. No doubt the type of people that are looking to be upset, offended, and/or harrassed anyway.

 

[Darkness]

I debated this on another forum. If people come to **** on it, that's their problem. The idea is that most Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11, and most of them, including this Imam denounce the actions of the terrorists. People need to realize that Muslims aren't the problem, jihadists are.

I understand that most Americans don't want to and won't see that, but I don't blame them for the attempt to force people to realize their bigotry.

I actually believe this Mosque can be used to heal the rift between Muslims and the more Conservative/anti-immigrant members of American society.

 

[Kerr]

Local Board Endorses Muslim Center Near Ground Zero - NYTimes.com

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who has led services in TriBeCa since 1983, told the board the center would help “bridge and heal a divide” among Muslims and other religious groups.​

Sorry, but I don't think this is going to heal anything. I think people are going to come from all over America to **** on this mosque.

I don´t know if it would work, but I cannot say I have anything against that mosque there.

 

[Smoke]

I don´t know if it would work, but I cannot say I have anything against that mosque there.

I don't have anything against it either, but I think it would be extremely naive to imagine there won't be a whole lot of people who do. Teabaggers are going to be drawn to this place like flies to honey.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm strongly in favor. The idea is that the terrorists want to promote hate and division and an Islamic center open to the whole community promotes unity, peace and co-existence. In other words, it's a strong statement against the goals of the terrorists. Some 9/11 survivors are supporting the center for this reason.

I agree completely, if handled properly. I think they'd have to address their disapproval of the violent
extremists, & also foster a common understanding with non-Muslims. Will this work? I have no idea.

 

[Magic Man]

I do. I don't think they should have been denied, because they have a right to do it. But they had to know it would be perceived as an insult to the people killed on 9/11, and that awareness makes it a deliberate insult. If anything, they're fanning the flames of bigotry.

The only people it's deliberate insult to is the group that can't distinguish between normal Muslims and jihadists. Just like you don't mind insulting those people who think gay marriage is immoral, they shouldn't mind insulting people who are similarly bigotted.

I'm really not sure how you could possibly say they're fanning the flames of bigotry. Again, they're not more doing that than you are when you fight for marriage equality. They're fighting against bigotry by displaying themselves as a group of normal Muslims who are as outraged over the 9/11 attacks as any non-Muslim American is. Remember that Muslims died in those attacks, too.

 

[Magic Man]

Whatever the motives are of the people behind this, it is simply ill-advised, and it is pretty naive to think people aren't going to be offended by this,

How do you know they think people aren't going to be offended by it? The fact is no one should be offended by it. The difference between this group of Muslims and the people who committed the attacks on 9/11 is the same difference between normal, average Christians and the Westboro Baptist Church. The fact that people would be offended by this is the exact reason they need to build the mosque, and the exact reason they want to. There is no good reason for people to be offended, and I know you agree that we shouldn't try not to offend people if they have no good reason to be offended.

that Islamic terrorists won't see this as a personal victory,

I've heard this before, and it still doesn't make sense. First, these people denounce publicly the actions of 9/11. Second, even if those terrorists see it as a victory, who cares? Whether they see it that way or not, it's still not a victory for them.

and that this would have any effect whatsoever on "bridging and healing the divide."

It may or may not, but I'm going to be hopeful that it will. You can't blame them for trying, at least.

Basically, it's just silliness that will probably result in various people getting upset, offended, and/or harrassed. No doubt the type of people that are looking to be upset, offended, and/or harrassed anyway.

In the same vain, I assume you think pushing for marriage equality is just silliness?

 

[Smoke]

The only people it's deliberate insult to is the group that can't distinguish between normal Muslims and jihadists. Just like you don't mind insulting those people who think gay marriage is immoral, they shouldn't mind insulting people who are similarly bigotted.

I'm really not sure how you could possibly say they're fanning the flames of bigotry. Again, they're not more doing that than you are when you fight for marriage equality. They're fighting against bigotry by displaying themselves as a group of normal Muslims who are as outraged over the 9/11 attacks as any non-Muslim American is. Remember that Muslims died in those attacks, too.

Again, I support their right to do it. I didn't say people should perceive it as an insult, but I guarantee that many will.

 

[Magic Man]

Again, I support their right to do it. I didn't say people should perceive it as an insult, but I guarantee that many will.

I'm sure they will, too, but that's the point of doing it in the first place. If there was no incorrect assumptions about them, they'd have no reason to do this in the first place. The idea is to clear up the problem, and make it so that people realize this should not be seen as an insult.

 

[Smoke]

I'm sure they will, too, but that's the point of doing it in the first place. If there was no incorrect assumptions about them, they'd have no reason to do this in the first place. The idea is to clear up the problem, and make it so that people realize this should not be seen as an insult.

If you read about the group that's doing this, and what they plan to do, it's actually a very cool idea. But America is filled with crazy, violent people. I don't even want to live here anymore. If we can make it to retirement, I want to retire abroad.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How do you know they think people aren't going to be offended by it? The fact is no one should be offended by it. The difference between this group of Muslims and the people who committed the attacks on 9/11 is the same difference between normal, average Christians and the Westboro Baptist Church. The fact that people would be offended by this is the exact reason they need to build the mosque, and the exact reason they want to. There is no good reason for people to be offended, and I know you agree that we shouldn't try not to offend people if they have no good reason to be offended.

I'm in no position to tell people whether they should be offended by it or not. I don't live in New York, nor did I lose anybody I know on 9/11. I'm not personally offended, but I also don't see this as anything more than the circle-jerk that it is.

I've heard this before, and it still doesn't make sense. First, these people denounce publicly the actions of 9/11. Second, even if those terrorists see it as a victory, who cares? Whether they see it that way or not, it's still not a victory for them.

Unless, of course, they are emboldened by "their" victory to push harder to get new members and commit more acts of terrorism.

It may or may not, but I'm going to be hopeful that it will. You can't blame them for trying, at least.

Of course I can't. However, without any rational mechansim of how this is supposed to "bridge the divide" in the real world, there goal seems unrealistic and/or insincere.

In the same vain, I assume you think pushing for marriage equality is just silliness?

This type of insulting rhetoric does little for your argument.