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11 errors by Jesus and friends.

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
It is interesting to think that some people believe that Jesus was a Rabbi who astounded the Pharisees, given his tendency to be wrong about scripture.

The same goes for Paul who is claimed to be a Pharisee who learned with Gamaliel.


I have 11 examples of where Jesus & pals got it wrong. This should be an interesting discussion. Perhaps when you respond, you could pick one to focus on.


1.
Matthew 23:35
...that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the Sanctuary and the altar.

It is strange that Jesus could not tell the difference between one Zechariah and another.

Zechariah the son of Barachiah was not murdered.
Zechariah the son of Jehoiada was.

II Chronicles 24:20-21
Then the spirit of G-d took possession of Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest;...and they conspired against him, and by the command of the king they stoned him with stones in the court of the House of the L-rd.

Now I know Jesus was going on a whole rant and rave (just because the Pharisees wouldn't accept him - how mature) and in anger couldn't think straight hence the error.

Being so I didn't take it as he was THAT bad. Yet then I came across another one of Jesus' rants and from here I began to understand where all this was coming from...Let us further examine -

2.
Mark 2:25--26
And he [Jesus] said to them: "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him; how he entered the House of G-d, when Abiathar was high priest,..."

I Samuel 21:2
Then David came to Nob, to Ahimelech the priest, and Ahimelech came to meet David trembling, and said to him: "Why are you alone, and no man with you?"

Ahimelech was high priest at that time. Only after his death (I Samuel 22:18) did his son, Abiathar, succeed him:

I Samuel 30:7
And David said to Abiathar the priest, the son of Ahimelech....

Apparently Jesus wasn't all that fluent in scripture and chose followers who weren't either all that knowledgeable. Let us examine.

3.
II Samuel 5:6--7
And the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites....David took the stronghold of Zion, the same is the city of David.

Ah yes, Luke - not even a Jew writes -

Luke 2:4--5
And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed wife who was with child.

Jerusalem, not Bethlehem, is called the "city of David."


4.
Genesis 11:26
When Terah had lived seventy years he became the father of Abram....

Genesis 12:4
...Abram was seventy--five years old when he departed from Haran.

Genesis 11:32
The days of Terah were 205 years and Terah died in Haran.

Acts 7:4
Then he [Abraham] departed from the land of the Chaldeans, and lived in Haran. And after his father died, G-d removed him from there into the land [in which] you are now living.

Abraham left Haran when Terah was 145 (70+75), which was sixty years before Terah died (205 - 145). Were the Apostles familiar with math?



5.
Genesis 46:27
And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt, were two souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob that came into Egypt were seventy.


Acts 7:14
And Joseph sent and called to him Jacob his father and his kindred; seventy--five souls.



6.
Joshua 24:32
The bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up from Egypt, were buried in Shechem, in the portion of ground that Jacob bought from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem, for one hundred pieces of money; and they became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.

Let us see what Jesus' follower says

Acts 7:15--16
And Jacob went down into Egypt, and he died, he and our fathers, and they were carried over to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had bought for the sum of money from the sons of Hamor of Shechem.

Only Joseph was buried in Shechem, and Jacob bought the plot, not Abraham.

Jacob was buried in the plot Abraham had bought IN HEBRON.

7.
Exodus 14:22
And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on dry land; the waters were a wall to them on their right side and on their left.

Paul (the supposed expert in the Torah) wrote

I Corinthians 10:1
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized to Moses in the cloud and in the sea....

One is baptized in water, not under a cloud, and the Jews stood on dry land, not in the sea itself.



8.
Numbers 25:9
And those that died by the plague were 24,000.

Paul (a man who claimed to be a Pharisee) wrote -

I Corinthians 10:8
We must not indulge in fornication as some of them did, and 23,000 fell in a single day.



9.
Paul (a self fashioned ex-Pharisee) wrote-

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his seed. It does not say, "and to his seeds," referring to many, but, referring to one, "and to your seed," which is Christ.

The Hebrew word zera (seed) is invariably used in the singular when referring to progeny, whether one person or many are meant. For example, wherever G-d promised to bless Abraham's "seed," his descendants were intended:

Genesis 13:16
I will make your seed as the dust of the earth; so that if one could count the dust of the earth, then your seed would also be counted.

Genesis 15:13
Then the L-rd said to Abram: "Know for sure that your seed will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and they will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years."

Genesis 26:4
...and I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and will give to your seed all these lands...

Genesis 22:17
...I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and as the sand upon the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies; and through your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have hearkened to My voice.



10.
Exodus 24:6-8
And Moses took half the blood and put it in basins; and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people; and they said: "All that the L-rd has spoken we will do and obey." And Moses took the blood and sprinkled it upon the people, and said: "Behold, the blood of the covenant that the L-rd has made with you in accordance with all these words."

Let us see what Jesus' follower has to say...

Hebrews 9:19-20
For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled on both the book itself and all the people, saying: "This is the blood of the covenant which G-d commanded you."

The Book of the Covenant was not sprinkled with blood.


11.
Genesis 47:31
And he [Jacob] said: "Swear to me." And he [Joseph] swore to him. Then Israel [Jacob] bowed himself upon the head of his bed.

Let's see what Jesus' follower says.

Hebrews 11:21
By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Joseph bowed upon the head of his bed, not his staff.



Let the fun begin.

I am fascinated with your posts, and immediately jumped into just one I thought would be quick and easy to look up. You said that in numbers there was a reference to 24,000 being killed, and thenin corinthians a number of 23,000 being killed.
So I joyfully jumped into both, and say specifics in numbers describing the context, yet when I turned to corinthians, I found only a vague reference to 23,000 being killed before. Why would you be so bold as to make the connection that this is what Paul was referring too? Did you bother to check if there was an instance of 23,000 people dying in the OT and maybe it was referring to that?
I found myself not wanting to look at anything else you wrote becasue the very first one I looked at was too vague. Please clarify your position on this, so as to restore your dedicated research to the matter.

Thanks!
 

Just_me_Mike

Well-Known Member
Then David came to Nob, to Ahimelech the priest, and Ahimelech came to meet David trembling, and said to him: "Why are you alone, and no man with you?"

Ahimelech was high priest at that time. Only after his death (I Samuel 22:18) did his son, Abiathar, succeed him:

Ok this is my second reply to your posts, and what started as a high hopes at someone having some information I have never looked at. You have errored once again it seems, as I will explain. However if you have further information I would be glad to change my mind.

While it is true that when David ate the shewbread while Ahimelech was high priests, you err when in the book of Mark you misquote that Jesus said Abiathar was high priest. If you read it accurately it only said "in the days" that abiathar was high priest. What happened right after the death of his father? Abiathar went to David and David took him in. So It was not out of line in the NT for Jesus to reference an era or timeframe that Abiathar was high priest.
So I have only looked at two of your 11 reasons and so far 2 for 2 you have misled everyone that decided to not check out your work.
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
Paul, the "Pharisee of Pharisees" wrote that 23,000 fell IN A SINGLE DAY. Numbers says that "all who died DURING THE PLAGUE" were 24,000. So, 23,000 died in ONE day, and 1,000 more died either before or after that day.
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
"... there are plenty of other examples of contradictions within books of the new testament. One of the more obvious examples of that nature (aside from the standard "who showed up at the tomb"...

Uh... what are the "contradictions" in the various accounts of who showed up at the tomb?
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
*
I thought it was explained: Chapter 1 in Genesis is more of a Synopsis of all of Creation. It doesn't explain HOW anything was created, except that God said the words, and there it was.

God made the plants on Day 3. I don't see the problem. Just the focus of the narrative is on the Garden of Eden.

God created animals on day 5 or 6, depending on what they were. God didn't just "make them" in Chapter 2. In Chapter 2, we are treated to a few more details of HOW God created them. There is no contradiction here.

And Eve was created out of Adam's rib. In Chapter 1, it says that man and woman were created. Chapter 2 gives a little more detail into HOW God did that, and with a little more sequencing. Again, no contradiction.


Hawk: Furthermore, there is no attempt made in Gen 2 to provide sequence of events... Adam (the probable author of Gen 2) wrote his account emphasizing the importance of various events, ignoring altogether the chronological sequence of those events.




*That is a good question. Jewish tradition says that both Cain and Abel (and, I suppose, Seth) were born with twin sisters. Cain married Abel's twin sister, and Abel married Cain's twin sister. The laws against incest didn't exist yet, when the only humans available to marry are only siblings.


Hawk: Who cares what "Jewish tradition" says? There was no prohibition against marrying siblings or other close kin at that time -- and no reason for any such prohibition.


*And his wife, and Abel and HIS wife.
Not really. The idea of more people eventually existing isn't beyond complete thought. They were born, and other people would be born. And other people, in generations beyond his parents and his wife, would learn of his crime against humanity.

Hawk: The text doesn't make any attempt to say how many OTHER children Adam and Eve had, or how many OTHER children (than those listed) that any of the progency had.

*But the quick answer I've come to after studying his series is that the snake had a couple of motives. First of all, he was jealous of Adam. He wanted Eve for himself, and if Eve made Adam eat the fruit, he thought he could get her that way. (The idea makes me shudder, but it could have been possible.)


Hawk: However, it is entirely idle speculation ...

*Also, the simple idea is that the snake simply introduced Eve to the concept of animal logic. Animals don't have "commandments" by God. They have instincts. God commanded Adam (and by extension, Eve) not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, verbally. But the fruit was still desirable.


Hawk: It has nothing to do with "animal logic" ... Satan simply asked a question that Eve didn't know the answer to -- in fact, she even mis-quoted God's command. As the NT says, "She was tricked."
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
Genesis 11:26
When Terah had lived seventy years he became the father of Abram...

That was in the post you quoted.

If this is the quality of your responses, don't waste your time. You do a better service to your position by saying nothing.

Uh... are you suggesting that Abraham had triplet sons when he was 75 years of age? You shouldn't scorn someone else's "quality" unless that is your firm conviction... his wife had triplets. Hogwash!
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
What kind of insane nonsensical drivel is this?

Person A buys X
Person B buys Y

To declare that Y was bought by A is wrong. To declare that X was bought by B is wrong.

ABRAHAM bought the TOMB in HEBRON. JACOB bought a FIELD in SHECHEM.

All of this "could have" stuff is moronic garbage.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for your post. If I could take frubals away from you, I would.

What's wrong with "could have" ??? But I can assure you the logic is sound... In 1911 my grandfather bought a piece of land with a house on it. The property changed hands several times, and in 2002 I bought the SAME land and house and now live in the house of my grandfather... in a manner of speaking. The point being and ancestor CAN buy a piece of property and the identical piece of property can later be bought by a descendant. You should be ashamed of poking fun at the notion.
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
The city where you're born isn't your city. David is of the city... the city is not of David. It's like calling Long Island "New York City".... it certainly is in New York, but it certainly isn't New York City. Luke apparently wasn't too bright either.

Hogwash... My "home town" is my city. No different than saying, "America is my native land." I'm noticing that someone else doesn't appear all that bright.
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
Being incredulous is only impressive if you're right.

The sentence gives us two achievements of Terah... he reached the age of 70... and by that time, he had three sons. Which is to say, none of the sons were born after Terah turned 71.

It doesn't say that by the time Terah was 70 he already had three sons. Any reasonable reading would be that after Terah was 70 years old, he had three sons.
 

Hawk

Christian Objectivist
Well now... after seeing what you like to say... let's look at what is actually said:

When Terah had lived 70 years, he begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Notice the word "had". By the time he had gotten this far, this is what he accomplished... he had begotten three sons.

In other words, he begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran by the time he lived 70 years.

"In other words," you're wrong... It would have said, "When Terah had lived 70 years, he HAD (already) BEGOTTEN Abram, Nahor, and Haran." It doesn't say that.
 
as complicated as you made this seem, the answer is quite simple. Get yourself a nice sound bible dictionary, and do some geological research. For instance, do you know WHERE Hebron is? And also Bethlehem is the city of david. Do some research, you'll see the bible doesnt make mistakes. Also i think you can mark a couple of those up to jacked up translations. Be careful what version you read also. I fi had more time id break down every one of these to you. Let me know if i can help.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Well now... after seeing what you like to say... let's look at what is actually said:

When Terah had lived 70 years, he begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Notice the word "had". By the time he had gotten this far, this is what he accomplished... he had begotten three sons.

In other words, he begot Abram, Nahor, and Haran by the time he lived 70 years.

"In other words," you're wrong... It would have said, "When Terah had lived 70 years, he HAD (already) BEGOTTEN Abram, Nahor, and Haran." It doesn't say that.

Go, Hawk - a voice of reason in a wilderness of illogical thinking! Did you read my post early on this thread? I answered nearly every one of these "arguments" logically - and was, for the most part, totally ignored.

Oh well!
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Go, Hawk - a voice of reason in a wilderness of illogical thinking!
Don't confuse creativity with reason. On the other hand, one would expect that any intractable contradiction would have long since been redacted. But the absence of intractable contradiction in something like, for example, the money changer tale makes the tale no less laughable.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member

raybo

courier...
Post 193/196 points toward where the many discussions are actually pointing. All that has been offered can be validated should the references be explored.

Consider: Why is the Jewish testimony that explains what happened to the Ark of the Covenant so vague?

"The ark of the covenant of the LORD." And it will not come to mind, nor will they remember it, nor will they miss it, nor will it be made again'" (Jeremiah 3:12-16).

Further there is no viable explanation of the stalemate that exists in Jerusalem at the Mount and site of the first two temples. No explanation except it is the will of G-d.

Israel News - Jerusalem Special Report - The Building of the Third Temple | Infolive.tv
 
I agree that such anti-christian rhetoric is spiteful at best, and the jealousy of a dead religion at worst. If something negative is said about Judaism or torah, its called antisemetic. The errors spoken of us largely inconsequential. Jesus and his followers read and taught out of scripture not in the torah at this time. Jude has verses which refer to 2 stories from the OT that are not found now.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Thief here....200+ posts....

Excuse me please... the initial post seemed to be aimed at starting a discussion that cannot be resolved.
Pointing out an error in old long standing text is all fine and good....if the critique was helpful in resolving a larger issue.

We have here a lengthy list of 'errors' written long ago...and to what end do we make this list?
Is there an underlying motive?
Is the real issue here an attempt to defame prophets of centuries past?

If that is the goal...there is no need for all of this.
Allow me to say...all of the prophets thought the earth to be flat.
None of the prophets understood the stars for their true nature.
They did not know what lay beneath their feet...nor did they know what hung above their heads.

It is therefore unreasonable to have expectation of infallibility of any prophet having lived so long before you.
Quotations are the most likely of items to be altered...and abused...as time goes by.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
It is interesting to think that some people believe that Jesus was a Rabbi who astounded the Pharisees, given his tendency to be wrong about scripture.

The same goes for Paul who is claimed to be a Pharisee who learned with Gamaliel.


I have 11 examples of where Jesus & pals got it wrong. This should be an interesting discussion. Perhaps when you respond, you could pick one to focus on.


1.
Matthew 23:35
...that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the Sanctuary and the altar.

It is strange that Jesus could not tell the difference between one Zechariah and another.

Zechariah the son of Barachiah was not murdered.
Zechariah the son of Jehoiada was.

II Chronicles 24:20-21
Then the spirit of G-d took possession of Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest;...and they conspired against him, and by the command of the king they stoned him with stones in the court of the House of the L-rd.

Now I know Jesus was going on a whole rant and rave (just because the Pharisees wouldn't accept him - how mature) and in anger couldn't think straight hence the error.

Being so I didn't take it as he was THAT bad. Yet then I came across another one of Jesus' rants and from here I began to understand where all this was coming from...Let us further examine -

2.
Mark 2:25--26
And he [Jesus] said to them: "Have you never read what David did, when he was in need and was hungry, he and those who were with him; how he entered the House of G-d, when Abiathar was high priest,..."

I Samuel 21:2
Then David came to Nob, to Ahimelech the priest, and Ahimelech came to meet David trembling, and said to him: "Why are you alone, and no man with you?"

Ahimelech was high priest at that time. Only after his death (I Samuel 22:18) did his son, Abiathar, succeed him:

I Samuel 30:7
And David said to Abiathar the priest, the son of Ahimelech....

Apparently Jesus wasn't all that fluent in scripture and chose followers who weren't either all that knowledgeable. Let us examine.

3.
II Samuel 5:6--7
And the king and his men went to Jerusalem against the Jebusites....David took the stronghold of Zion, the same is the city of David.

Ah yes, Luke - not even a Jew writes -

Luke 2:4--5
And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed wife who was with child.

Jerusalem, not Bethlehem, is called the "city of David."


4.
Genesis 11:26
When Terah had lived seventy years he became the father of Abram....

Genesis 12:4
...Abram was seventy--five years old when he departed from Haran.

Genesis 11:32
The days of Terah were 205 years and Terah died in Haran.

Acts 7:4
Then he [Abraham] departed from the land of the Chaldeans, and lived in Haran. And after his father died, G-d removed him from there into the land [in which] you are now living.

Abraham left Haran when Terah was 145 (70+75), which was sixty years before Terah died (205 - 145). Were the Apostles familiar with math?



5.
Genesis 46:27
And the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt, were two souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob that came into Egypt were seventy.


Acts 7:14
And Joseph sent and called to him Jacob his father and his kindred; seventy--five souls.



6.
Joshua 24:32
The bones of Joseph, which the children of Israel brought up from Egypt, were buried in Shechem, in the portion of ground that Jacob bought from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem, for one hundred pieces of money; and they became the inheritance of the children of Joseph.

Let us see what Jesus' follower says

Acts 7:15--16
And Jacob went down into Egypt, and he died, he and our fathers, and they were carried over to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham had bought for the sum of money from the sons of Hamor of Shechem.

Only Joseph was buried in Shechem, and Jacob bought the plot, not Abraham.

Jacob was buried in the plot Abraham had bought IN HEBRON.

7.
Exodus 14:22
And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea on dry land; the waters were a wall to them on their right side and on their left.

Paul (the supposed expert in the Torah) wrote

I Corinthians 10:1
I want you to know, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized to Moses in the cloud and in the sea....

One is baptized in water, not under a cloud, and the Jews stood on dry land, not in the sea itself.



8.
Numbers 25:9
And those that died by the plague were 24,000.

Paul (a man who claimed to be a Pharisee) wrote -

I Corinthians 10:8
We must not indulge in fornication as some of them did, and 23,000 fell in a single day.



9.
Paul (a self fashioned ex-Pharisee) wrote-

Galatians 3:16
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his seed. It does not say, "and to his seeds," referring to many, but, referring to one, "and to your seed," which is Christ.

The Hebrew word zera (seed) is invariably used in the singular when referring to progeny, whether one person or many are meant. For example, wherever G-d promised to bless Abraham's "seed," his descendants were intended:

Genesis 13:16
I will make your seed as the dust of the earth; so that if one could count the dust of the earth, then your seed would also be counted.

Genesis 15:13
Then the L-rd said to Abram: "Know for sure that your seed will be sojourners in a land that is not theirs, and they will be slaves there, and they will be oppressed for four hundred years."

Genesis 26:4
...and I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and will give to your seed all these lands...

Genesis 22:17
...I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and as the sand upon the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies; and through your seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have hearkened to My voice.



10.
Exodus 24:6-8
And Moses took half the blood and put it in basins; and half the blood he sprinkled on the altar. Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people; and they said: "All that the L-rd has spoken we will do and obey." And Moses took the blood and sprinkled it upon the people, and said: "Behold, the blood of the covenant that the L-rd has made with you in accordance with all these words."

Let us see what Jesus' follower has to say...

Hebrews 9:19-20
For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled on both the book itself and all the people, saying: "This is the blood of the covenant which G-d commanded you."

The Book of the Covenant was not sprinkled with blood.


11.
Genesis 47:31
And he [Jacob] said: "Swear to me." And he [Joseph] swore to him. Then Israel [Jacob] bowed himself upon the head of his bed.

Let's see what Jesus' follower says.

Hebrews 11:21
By faith Jacob, when dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, bowing in worship over the head of his staff.

Joseph bowed upon the head of his bed, not his staff.



Let the fun begin.
One can easily find many flaws and contradictions in the Hebrew Scriptures also.
May I ask your ultimate intent of this thread? May I also ask who teaches you the scriptures?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
One can easily find many flaws and contradictions in the Hebrew Scriptures also.
May I ask your ultimate intent of this thread? May I also ask who teaches you the scriptures?
Its a really old thread. I'm not even sure Poison Shady is still interested.
 
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