11 year old girl facing death penalty for "blasphemy"

[Looncall]

China's cultural revolution springs to mind.

I've wondered how to think about Mao's China. There was an all-authoritative power figure and even a "holy text". Only the supernatural aspect was missing. That looks like at least the same kind of phenomenon as religion.

 

[Father Heathen]

I agree with you, but it also happens that governments in countries with an Islamic majority tend not to subscribe to the ideal of separation of church and state, so the option if using state violence to avenge religious affront is available to them. Wherever it's available, it's bound to be used.

So religion is a issue when there isn't something in place to keep it in check. :yes:

 

[Revoltingest]

Extremism and backward society create bad synergy.

That too.
But Islam strikes me as an extreme religion relative to other popular ones.

 

[waitasec]

That too.
But Islam strikes me as an extreme religion relative to other popular ones.

extreme in certain areas...areas that are extremely volatile

 

[Revoltingest]

So human nature is an ideology?

The human brain is hardware.
Human nature is firmware.
Religion is software.
Islam is an application.
Executing an 11 year old kid is malware.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

It is a religion of peace. That doesn't mean people won't try to twist it and use it as justification for horrible acts of injustice... or bigotry

Well people are often a reflection of teachings. If truth is to outshine falsehood then those who uphold true Islamic justice should step in and set this girl free. What society sends a girl with an alledged mental disorder to death?

 

[Sunstone]

The notion that blasphemy must be punished is a dangerous notion.

 

[Father Heathen]

I've wondered how to think about Mao's China. There was an all-authoritative power figure and even a "holy text". Only the supernatural aspect was missing. That looks like at least the same kind of phenomenon as religion.

Yep :yes: Cult of personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I am sorry but I agree with Outhouse's frustration.

Muslims even at my college say "Islam is peace" ok.
Christians say "Jesus is merciful"

Jews....Well I respect Jews cause they are a quiet bunch (and quite funny) but if you want to learn most rabbis are very welcoming in my experience and they don't proseltyze.

But I am sorry but as an individual who lost friends in Iraq (one who died because the insurgent sent his child with a bag of candy with an explosive inside) and Christians who condemned.me to hell because I dont believe Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

People cannot help but judge religions because people are often representives of that faith. So you cant help but judge the faith. If Islam is universal and have this divine hold on people, logic would determine that killing an 11 year old girl is wrong.

 

[Straw Dog]

Yes, indeed, but how can one deal with a religion that claims to be the last word on everything? How can that fail to lead to intolerance, hatred and violence?

By recognizing that religions are made for people and not the other way around. They are amendable because we created them in our search for meaning and purpose. Education helps with developing the critical thinking skills necessary to overcome absolutism. I know it is possible for religions to become non-absolutist. I mean, look at Jainism, which has non-absolutism as a main part of its philosophy. I suppose the Abrahamic faiths are a different animal however.

 

[Alceste]

So religion is a issue when there isn't something in place to keep it in check. :yes:

I lean toward agreeing with Jay that extremism is what needs to be kept in check, and the adjective "religious" is unnecessarily limiting. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot certainly were not religious. It just so happens that at this particular moment in history, the brand of extremism that has the most sway in the world's governments, (apart from capitalism, which brought us the devastating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq), happens to be Islamic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

People cannot help but judge religions because people are often representives of that faith. So you cant help but judge the faith. If Islam is universal and have this divine hold on people, logic would determine that killing an 11 year old girl is wrong.

Remarkable! How did you manage to come up with three sentences - presumably linked - but with each one less coherent than its predecessor?

 

[Alceste]

I am sorry but I agree with Outhouse's frustration.

Muslims even at my college say "Islam is peace" ok.
Christians say "Jesus is merciful"

Jews....Well I respect Jews cause they are a quiet bunch (and quite funny) but if you want to learn most rabbis are very welcoming in my experience and they don't proseltyze.

But I am sorry but as an individual who lost friends in Iraq (one who died because the insurgent sent his child with a bag of candy with an explosive inside) and Christians who condemned.me to hell because I dont believe Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

People cannot help but judge religions because people are often representives of that faith. So you cant help but judge the faith. If Islam is universal and have this divine hold on people, logic would determine that killing an 11 year old girl is wrong.

I'm sorry you lost a friend in Iraq. Why do you think religion is responsible for that, though? Iraq certainly didn't start that war, and war means casualties on every side.

 

[Revoltingest]

I lean toward agreeing with Jay that extremism is what needs to be kept in check, and the adjective "religious" is unnecessarily limiting. Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot certainly were not religious. It just so happens that at this particular moment in history, the brand of extremism that has the most sway in the world's governments, (apart from capitalism, which brought us the devastating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq), happens to be Islamic.

I could just as glibly say that our socialism caused the wars.....but that would be silly.
You'll have to make a case that capitalism was behind Bush's & Obama's wars. More important factors I see are:
- US playing policeman to the world because of lust for power & a smug sense of superiority.
- Judeo-Xian conflict with Islam
- Revenge for 9/11
How do we benefit (as capitalists) by tossing away trillions of dollars on wars from which only the Chinese appear to profit?

 

[waitasec]

The notion that blasphemy must be punished is a dangerous notion.

why must you state the obvious!???

 

[outhouse]

An eleven year old girl with Downs Syndrome, no less. Does anybody have an example of fanatics of some religion other than Islam acting this crazy? Acid in the faces of schoolgirls, death sentences for adultery, threats of murder for drawing pictures of Mohammed... Sorry, but it always seems to be Islamic fundamentalists doing these things. I know Christian fanatics like to shoot the occasional abortion doctor, but it's far less common.

It seems to me there's either something about Islam that makes a significant portion of its adherents violent, hateful and insane, our there's something about the fusion of church and state that empowers religious believers to become violent, hateful and insane.

im going with the culture's teh religion belongs to are often barbaric people to begin with.


while we do have issue's with the more rich and civilized nations, nothing like these primitive barbaric people.


and if one looks at christians in poor areas of say africa, we see the same kind of primitive barbaric actions.



sadly in all, I will agree with you

 

[Quagmire]

In the month of Ramadan many other things happened that you guys have missed. These people who claim to be "Muslims" did the following:
-Men in military uniforms massacred Shia Muslims
-Punjab Police defiled the Tombstones of Ahmadi Muslims
-Armed terrorists attacked a military base of the country
-Additionally a 11 yr old mentally challenged girl was charged for blasphemy

I am sure many other terrible acts happen that unfortunately never come to light. The problem is that Pakistan is filled with the Bigoted Mullah who will torture, harass, and kill the minority. The state essentially sponsors such terrorism and the attackers are never caught, and even if caught are let go.

These events show the true motivation of these bigots is not Islam but rather bigotry, greed, hatred, and violence. Whenever we look into these attacks we find most often the person has a personal dispute over land or some other material desire and takes it as an excuse to kill minority. If a minority recently got promoted in your workplace then you recently got motivated to kill the blasphemer.

Let's set a few things straight before we get way out of hand:

Killing a mentally ill 11-year-old girl (or ANY 11-year-old girl) over anything, including burning Qur'anic text, is absurd, cruel, stupid, and any other word you can throw in there.

One thing to note, and this will prove that these people are not acting according to Islamic rule:

1) No child under the age of puberty is accountable for their actions.
2) People who are mentally disabled, no matter the age, are not accountable for their actions.

Since this girl meets both criteria mentioned, under Islamic law, she should not be held accountable and should be released back to her family.

Lastly, I have spent the last bit reading this thread appalled at anyone who thinks Pakistan has anything even slightly resembling Sharia law...just more proof that, in general, people are going to see what they want to see. IMO they are no better than the uneducated criminals who have misinterpreted the blasphemy laws in the first place. Anyone who has read my posts knows I am NOT an apologist for Islam. However, if something is untrue, it's simply untrue. Executing a mentally ill minor is NOT Islamic.

Judgement comes from all sides...it's important to know the facts or even try to discover the facts before ranting about the horrors of Islamic jurisprudence.

As far as I'm concerned these two posts should have resolved the debate all by them themselves, or at least sent it off in another direction.

The problem is, IMO, that there are so many people in the world these days who, often understandably, have such a low opinion of themselves, and are so desperate to find someone they can form an even lower opinion of, they'll even resort to manufacturing those people out of bits and pieces of reality and then fill in the gaps with prejudice and bigotry.

The less you allow yourself to understand someone, the easier it is to do all that.

If you start out with someone or something that you don't understand in the first place, even easier.

 

[Alceste]

I could just as glibly say that our socialism caused the wars.....but that would be silly.
You'll have to make a case that capitalism was behind Bush's & Obama's wars. More important factors I see are:
- US playing policeman to the world because of lust for power & a smug sense of superiority.
- Judeo-Xian conflict with Islam
- Revenge for 9/11
How do we benefit (as capitalists) by tossing away trillions of dollars on wars from which only the Chinese appear to profit?

You don't think your defense industry profited from these wars?

Here, this guy builds my case better than I could:
War Is A Racket

 

[paarsurrey]

It is a terrible incident and must be condemned by everybody; but it has got nothing to do with Islam/Quran/Muhammad; there is no teaching in Quran for such an act.

 

[Revoltingest]

You don't think your defense industry profited from these wars?

Sure they did. But the country as a whole did not.
You don't make money by manufacturing expensive products, training a huge work force, & then sending
them some place where the delivery team is killed or maimed, & the product blown up or abandoned.
A measure of how capitalistic a country is would correlate with a measure of economic liberty, eh?
Index of Economic Freedom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Of the top countries, how many wage so many wars? Hint: Only one