11 year old girl facing death penalty for "blasphemy"

[F0uad]

Because it has nothing to do with this situation or the Pakistani governments laws on Blasphemy. Every time something like this happens you redirect everything to the West. It is time to either be serious or stop posting.

Why can't you take a minute and actually see why i am including the ''west'' in my argument?
I am not doing it to dismiss the actions that the Pakistan government did or hold on ''not did'', i am responding this way because people mix my religion (and yours) with the political policies of Pakistan.

Its not that i am supporting anything or defending anyone here except Islam, i am not sure why you allow people to speak vile against our religion when they mix the Pakistan government actions with that of Islam. Do you see me blaming Atheism for there misbehavior or the internal/external policies of there governments? If you actually took some time to take a look on the first two pages you would know what i am talking about.

 

[gnostic]

As for the people bringing forth the ''government'' argument it simply shows your ignorance since America is well known for its tortures, patriot act, under 18 prisoners, illegal contained, mass killings and mass terrorizing globally.
I am not sure ssainhu and Dingbat why you guys/girls are condemning Pakistan but not America for there miss-behaviors? Also my arguments were directed to the first page of this thread have a look on what kind of replies the OP got.

Once again, you're off-topic.

What the hell do America and terrorism has to the blasphemy law? Nothing.

This debate is not about terrorism. You want to debate about terrorism, start a new thread. If you want to debate about the US, start a new thread. If you want to debate about the rate of rapes or murders in the West - you guess it - start a new topic.

This topic about the girl, about the man who frame her, about the Muslim-Pakistani community, about the justice system and the blasphemy law.

We may have something to discuss about, if you were talking about blasphemy law in the US (or somewhere in Europe) or about Muslim girl burning the bible being arrested for blasphemy.

And like ssainhu said, going off-topic and blaming the US or the West about something else is not helping your argument whatsoever.

Many errors first of all it was not a imam secondly where is your proof that ''many'' Pakistanis wanted her dead?

Before it was learned that the girl was framed, there were hundreds of demonstrators in the neighborhood she lived in that harassed her family. The demonstration had spread in other parts of Pakistan, where Christian homes were burnt. Even some of the imams were calling for her death.

And you don't call it "many"?

It is not my fault, you would choose to deny it.

Does blasphemy law has nothing to do with religion?

 

[F0uad]

Once again, you're off-topic.

If you can't connect the dots don't blame me.

What the hell do America and terrorism has to the blasphemy law? Nothing.

I hope you will try to understand that i was replying on the first page.

This debate is not about terrorism. You want to debate about terrorism, start a new thread. If you want to debate about the US, start a new thread. If you want to debate about the rate of rapes or murders in the West - you guess it - start a new topic.

There is no need to be emotional.

This topic about the girl, about the man who frame her, about the Muslim-Pakistani community, about the justice system and the blasphemy law.

Well according the first two pages its not and my whole argument was a reply on that, so your actually debating something entirely different then i am.

We may have something to discuss about, if you were talking about blasphemy law in the US (or somewhere in Europe) or about Muslim girl burning the bible being arrested for blasphemy.

And like ssainhu said, going off-topic and blaming the US or the West about something else is not helping your argument whatsoever.

Read above.

Before it was learned that the girl was framed, there were hundreds of demonstrators in the neighborhood she lived in that harassed her family. The demonstration had spread in other parts of Pakistan, where Christian homes were burnt. Even some of the imams were calling for her death.

And you don't call it "many"?

It is not my fault, you would choose to deny it.

Your point? Clearly those people want those laws let them have it? Aren't you a supporter of democracy?

Does blasphemy law has nothing to do with religion?

Are you familiar about the subject of blasphemy or laws in Islam? Also what has a political government to do with my religion? Also what's wrong with it when the majority agrees on it?
Now please do a second reading of all my arguments and understand that my whole ''west'' bashing was based on the first two pages.

 

[gnostic]

Your point? Clearly those people want those laws let them have it? Aren't you a supporter of democracy?

This has nothing to do with democracy.

With democracy, you'd vote.

Demonstration is fine, as long as it is peaceful.

Driving out the family out of their home, or burning homes of Christian neighbors is not what I would call democracy.

What you have called democracy, I would called ANARCHY. They were mob with mob mentality. Democracy don't mean you can threaten people with violence or death. Democracy don't mean you can destroy homes.

Can you not distinguish between anarchy and democracy?

Even if the governing constitution of any country has democracy, it doesn't give people rights to act like a lawless mob. With democracy their are laws to protect everyone, not just one group over another. And the citizens are supposed to act responible and follow law, not destroy properties or threaten people just because they don't share your religion, your culture or your political stance.

I find it terribly disturbing that you would call the reaction of blasphemy "democracy".

Yes, I do support democracy. I don't support lawlessness or anarchy. And I certainly don't support mobs, no matter what the issues are.

 

[F0uad]

This has nothing to do with democracy.

With democracy, you'd vote.

Demonstration is fine, as long as it is peaceful.

Driving out the family out of their home, or burning homes of Christian neighbors is not what I would call democracy.

What you have called democracy, I would called ANARCHY. They were mob with mob mentality. Democracy don't mean you can threaten people with violence or death. Democracy don't mean you can destroy homes.

Can you not distinguish between anarchy and democracy?

Even if the governing constitution of any country has democracy, it doesn't give people rights to act like a lawless mob. With democracy their are laws to protect everyone, not just one group over another. And the citizens are supposed to act responible and follow law, not destroy properties or threaten people just because they don't share your religion, your culture or your political stance.

I find it terribly disturbing that you would call the reaction of blasphemy "democracy".

Yes, I do support democracy. I don't support lawlessness or anarchy. And I certainly don't support mobs, no matter what the issues are.

Lol the hypocrisy first preaching me out staying on the subject and now this.

Pakistan is considered to be a democracy and don't tell me what America is one what is ruled by a two party system for over how long?

 

[beenie]

Pakistan is a democracy? I hope you're kidding.

 

[gnostic]

Lol the hypocrisy first preaching me out staying on the subject and now this.

You're the one who brought up democracy.

What I saw or read in the media, after the girl's arrest, attacks on the girl's family and other Christian homes, were not the reaction of peaceful demonstrations, but actions of (Muslim) mob against their (Christian) neighbors.

They (those mobs) had already condemned the girl and her family before she was even charged.

Did you even bother to read Father Heathen's original article posted @ the OP?

The accusations, made by the girl's neighbors in a mixed Christian-Muslim neighborhood, sent area Muslims into a fury, with some police reports suggesting an angry mob of hundreds of men descended on her home demanding authorities arrest her and charge her with blasphemy.

They then allegedly went on a rampage, attacking the girl's family and setting Christian houses on fire. The girl's parents are now in protective custody and, according to reports, several Christian families have left the neighborhood, an impoverished district in the country's capital, Islamabad.

Source: Girl, 11, Could Face Death in Pakistan for 'Blasphemy' - ABC News

Do you call that democracy? Do you think the mobs are law-abiding citizens?

Law-abiding citizens wouldn't take law into their hands.

I am telling you this, F0uad: Do not confuse mob with democracy.

The only hypocrisy I see, is that you completely ignore that those mobs have broken the law, attacking the girl's family and other Christian families before she was even charged, tried or convicted.

Pakistan is considered to be a democracy and don't tell me what America is one what is ruled by a two party system for over how long?

Don't really care about the US or their constitution. Don't really care about democracy in Pakistan. Democracy is irrelevant about this issue of blasphemy law in Pakistan. The US is irrelevant.

I think all blasphemy law (regardless of what religion we are talking about) to be archaic and obsolete, oppressive and draconian. And in the case of Islam, often misused.

 

[F0uad]

Well since we switched subjects here ill play along.

You're the one who brought up democracy.

My argument was who are we to condemn a countries law or choice of law? Its the same as saying American people are bad because they allow Guns it just makes no sense to me. If people voted for a certain group of people ''a party'' they know what they are going to get.

What I saw or read in the media, after the girl's arrest, attacks on the girl's family and other Christian homes, were not the reaction of peaceful demonstrations, but actions of (Muslim) mob against their (Christian) neighbors.

Is there any evidence for this except from the ABC NEWS who ''think'' there were men who did those things but cannot proof it?

They (those mobs) had already condemned the girl and her family before she was even charged.

Did the attack the homes? Where is your proof and condemning someone is horrible in what way??

Did you even bother to read Father Heathen's original article posted @ the OP?

I saw this one a while ago on the other section of the forums.

Do you call that democracy? Do you think the mobs are law-abiding citizens?

Hmm so how is this a reply?
So if i see some people going crazy i can judge the whole country or its government based on a single action of a mob? With the notion you brought for i can judge democratic countries, laws, governments, people and ideas.

Law-abiding citizens wouldn't take law into their hands.

Well call them criminals? Your point here is?...

I am telling you this, F0uad: Do not confuse mob with democracy.

Where did i such thing? Weren't we talking about the LAWS you insisted that blasphemy laws are something ''bad'' yet those people voted for it?

The only hypocrisy I see, is that you completely ignore that those mobs have broken the law, attacking the girl's family and other Christian families before she was even charged, tried or convicted.

Please some evidence for making such bold statements. And even if so they should be trailed for attacking. Its Islamic to trial anyone who did something criminal Muslim or not however there is no proof they did until you show me otherwise.

Don't really care about the US or their constitution. Don't really care about democracy in Pakistan. Democracy is irrelevant about this issue of blasphemy law in Pakistan. The US is irrelevant.

It is? This made no sense. Are you saying that we should dictate to Pakistan on what there laws should be? Are you willing to tell the Russians the same?
Again people voted for these laws or these kind of parties and they can elect and choose who ever they want. Americans like yourself have to stop interfering in Middle-eastern politics. Do you see a Pakistan condemning your constitution?

I think all blasphemy law (regardless of what religion we are talking about) to be archaic and obsolete, oppressive and draconian. And in the case of Islam, often misused.

You can have your opinion about it but we cannot oppose our opinion on other people what seems you like to do.

 

[gnostic]

It is? This made no sense. Are you saying that we should dictate to Pakistan on what there laws should be? Are you willing to tell the Russians the same?

No, you've misunderstood.

You've turn the topic around, pointing finger at democracy, the West, the US and the father who raped and killed his daughter, ALL OF WHICH ARE IRRELEVANT IN THIS THREAD.

You were the one who tried to change the topic in this thread, and I'm merely responding to those changes. I asking you to stop changing the subject.

For some irrational reasons, you decided to accuse the West on totally different subject. Take post 369 for example:

Well the Great WHITE Western Seculars are killing innocent Muslims and non-Muslims around the world daily.. Its such a hypocrisy when a young lady is killed by Muslims they point fingers but when over 150 tons of bombs are dropped on innocent civilians baby's, woman's, children, 11 year old girls for no reason nothing is said. GO USA and the WEST!

Or with post 375:

My point is that i think its stupid to blame a religion or people as is suggested on the first page when i can point more fingers then you can ever do. As for the child she was not killed and was freed a long time ago. Yet in Europe there was a 12 year old girl locked up in the basement raped for 24 years by her father who was White-Secular-Westerner and later killed by him.

Before saying anything about ''Muslims" or something that happens in a country that has a Muslim majority why not look in the mirror?

None of these are relevant to the girl accused of blasphemy.

How are these posts relevant to this thread?

 

[F0uad]

No, you've misunderstood.

You've turn the topic around, pointing finger at democracy, the West, the US and the father who raped and killed his daughter, ALL OF WHICH ARE IRRELEVANT IN THIS THREAD.

You were the one who tried to change the topic in this thread, and I'm merely responding to those changes. I asking you to stop changing the subject.

For some irrational reasons, you decided to accuse the West on totally different subject. Take post 369 for example:



Or with post 375:



None of these are relevant to the girl accused of blasphemy.

How are these posts relevant to this thread?

Well i told you over 5 times already and this will be my last time so i hope you open your eyes and memorize this.

My argument against the WEST has to do with the generalizing of Muslims and the religion Islam in the first two pages of this thread nothing else.
Now you can keep repeating the same message over and over but if you are ignoring why i said them then your just being childish and ignorant.

Furthermore you yourself also changed subjects so please stop using double-standards here.
Now you can keep going back to this topic what seems it died out over and over but it will just be reflection on your way of thinking and behavior.