11 year old girl facing death penalty for "blasphemy"

[robo]

I'd definitely support prosecuting anyone who demanded that a child be killed, yes.

Really?

What about Allah asking Ibrahim to sacrifice Ismail?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ignorance of what exactly? What is it that you think these people are ignorant of? Please explain.

What Islamic law actually states regarding the matter, for one.

That and the fact that the girl's age and mental illness are more than enough reasons for her not to be held accountable for what she did or be punished for it at all.

Really?

What about Allah asking Ibrahim to sacrifice Ismail?

That's a completely different topic. I don't want to derail the thread by discussing this now, because I'd elaborate a lot on it.

 

[Looncall]

I couldn't read the whole thread due to being tired of reading the same tired arguments.



The religious aspect. Don't expect the so called progressives of RF who like spewing progressive babble for the sake of appearing tolerant.

What it's used for is a modern style witch hunt. People have a disagreement over property in Pakistan then scream blasphemy. The blasphemy laws in Pakistan are used not in every instance as a means to protect religious sentiment but to resolve petty disputes with a heavy hand.

In this instance we definitely have a friction between two religious communities and no one has come forward with any obvious evidence that the neighbor's who alleged blasphemy had anything to gain from taking property from a dirt poor neighbor. It appears to me that one community has latched on to something to drive out another community. A different religious community.



Looking at the culture is looking at religion in many cases. Too often people forget that just for the sake of being tolerant when in reality their statements are meaningless.

In this case we don't have opposing music cultures, food cultures or even two different ethnic groups. We have two different religions. Large numbers of the immediate muslim community are ready to oust the minority Christian community in that area.

There have been recent news stories about this kind of thing in Indonesia. Different cultures, same religion. Also news stories about similar oppression of Bahais in Iran. Another culture again, but the same religion.

Anyone see a pattern here?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I propose a neologism...."Islamophobiaophobia".
It means the irrational fear of the irrational fear of Islam.

Tell that the the Sikhs a few miles north of me.

 

[gnomon]

There have been recent news stories about this kind of thing in Indonesia. Different cultures, same religion. Also news stories about similar oppression of Bahais in Iran. Another culture again, but the same religion.

Anyone see a pattern here?

I don't know why you quoted me because I was pointing out that there is a religious aspect to the story from the OP and that it cannot be dismissed as it often is by those who claim these events have nothing to do with the religion.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I couldn't read the whole thread due to being tired of reading the same tired arguments.



The religious aspect. Don't expect the so called progressives of RF who like spewing progressive babble for the sake of appearing tolerant.

If I'm understanding this correctly, what you are saying is that, basically, Muslims on RF either have to condone and support those actions, or they are merely "spewing progressive babble" for the sake of "appearing tolerant."

In other words, are you implying that Muslims who have posted in this thread so far and who have spoken against the prosecution of the girl mentioned in the article aren't sincere and are actually in support of penalizing her?

*deleted post*

No, not at all. Like I said, I have a lot to say on this particular topic, but it's not for this thread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In other words, are you implying that Muslims who have posted in this thread so far and who have spoken against the prosecution of the girl mentioned in the article aren't sincere and are actually in support of penalizing her?

Everyone knows you can't believe Muslims.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Everyone knows you can't believe Muslims.

I know, right? Just like the Jews. They both lie about their religions and alter their meaning. :yes:

 

[MoonWater]

Why is it that in every other instance when something like this happens people will blame bigotry, ignorance, greed, psychology, mental health, upbringing, and a whole host of other issues to explain why people are acting as they are but the instant a connection can be drawn between the perpetrator(s) and islam or the perpetrator(s) and any religion all of that is immediately thrown out the window and people start saying it's all because of their religion.

It's the same kind of mentality that tries to blame Doom for Columbine, or blame violent movies for Aurora.

If someone started running around killing genetically disformed babies under the pretense of "not wanting them to pollute the gene pool" we wouldn't blame the theory of evolution for their behavior.

This is especially maddening when it has already been pointed out by several posters who are themselves Muslim that the Quran, the codified law book that defines their religion, explicitly speaks against what these people in pakistan are doing.

To continue spewing such tripe is irrational and "requires a suspension of critical thought" because it's holding Islam and the religious to a different standard than everyone else.

 

[Looncall]

I don't know why you quoted me because I was pointing out that there is a religious aspect to the story from the OP and that it cannot be dismissed as it often is by those who claim these events have nothing to do with the religion.

I was agreeing with you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why is it that in every other instance when something like this happens people will blame bigotry, ignorance, greed, psychology, mental health, upbringing, and a whole host of other issues to explain why people are acting as they are but the instant a connection can be drawn between the perpetrator(s) and islam or the perpetrator(s) and any religion all of that is immediately thrown out the window and people start saying it's all because of their religion.

It's the same kind of mentality that tries to blame Doom for Columbine, or blame violent movies for Aurora.

If someone started running around killing genetically disformed babies under the pretense of "not wanting them to pollute the gene pool" we wouldn't blame the theory of evolution for their behavior.

This is especially maddening when it has already been pointed out by several posters who are themselves Muslim that the Quran, the codified law book that defines their religion, explicitly speaks against what these people in pakistan are doing.

To continue spewing such tripe is irrational and "requires a suspension of critical thought" because it's holding Islam and the religious to a different standard than everyone else.

Very good post.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know, right? Just like the Jews. They both lie about their religions and alter their meaning. :yes:

It's gotta be the Hummus - although I can't quite remember ever having Pakistani hummus.

 

[Debater Slayer]

*Deleted Post*

I did read the whole post, and it left me wondering as to what you meant by the words I quoted earlier. The rest of the post didn't seem to elaborate further on that, which lead me to the question I posed to you.

I don't know what "years of experience" on this forum have to do with the intentions of the Muslims who posted in this thread, to be honest. But for what it's worth, I don't believe any of them were insincere in what they stated regarding the issue being discussed.

 

[Straw Dog]

The issue isn't so much whether religion in general inevitably produces these kinds of results, but that a certain strain of absolutist thinking in religions enables people, regardless of their interpretations being correct or not, to believe with total conviction that God shares their opinions. They are absolutely justified in their actions because they alone possess "Truth" and everyone else is in the wrong.

This arrogance is a more fundamental tendency in humankind than more sophisticated religious conceptions are and it infuses people under certain conditions with an absolute certitude in their own self-righteousness. They cannot be convinced otherwise because their minds have been closed and shackled by dogma. The solution isn't to blame religion in general, but to promote more education so that people can learn how to think critically, especially about their own religious preconceptions.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

... for what it's worth, I don't believe any of them were insincere in what they stated regarding the issue being discussed.

Nor do I.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Very good post.

I agree as well. :yes:

 

[MoonWater]

Thanks RR and Jay

 

[no-body]

I see it more as a warning against fundamentalism than anything else. Don't kid yourself these are the same type of brainless animals that exist in every religion and would love to control the culture and government in every nation they reside in as they do in Pakistan.

 

[MoonWater]

Except these "same type of brainless animals" exist outside religion too.

 

[waitasec]

Why is it that in every other instance when something like this happens people will blame bigotry, ignorance, greed, psychology, mental health, upbringing, and a whole host of other issues to explain why people are acting as they are but the instant a connection can be drawn between the perpetrator(s) and islam or the perpetrator(s) and any religion all of that is immediately thrown out the window and people start saying it's all because of their religion.

It's the same kind of mentality that tries to blame Doom for Columbine, or blame violent movies for Aurora.

If someone started running around killing genetically disformed babies under the pretense of "not wanting them to pollute the gene pool" we wouldn't blame the theory of evolution for their behavior.

This is especially maddening when it has already been pointed out by several posters who are themselves Muslim that the Quran, the codified law book that defines their religion, explicitly speaks against what these people in pakistan are doing.

To continue spewing such tripe is irrational and "requires a suspension of critical thought" because it's holding Islam and the religious to a different standard than everyone else.

i see what you mean.

i am of the opinion that religion means justification. it doesn't matter if it's not the right way of interpreting the religion because ultimately, the interpretation of ones religion is subjected to the individuals understanding of it.