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4 creatures creat (or evolute) new creature?

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
"derppp i know more than Islamic scholars and you don't know anything about Islam because you are holding their opinion over mine derppppppp"
"herp derp I can only look to literalism and selected scholars to fuel my lack of actual study into Islam andI don't want to look at other points of view including other scholars hurr durr i'm so cool and 2 edgy 4 u bro".

Both of you seemed to overlook the fact that I was referring to the "grammar"

There is no such a thing as a "religionist" or an "anti-religionist". That doesn't make sense.
Oh but there is. Sterling just showed you that there was.

Besides, you can't be prescriptive with language. Languages evolve.

I studied linguistics, including semantics, pragmatics, syntax, and teaching ESOL. In addition, I teach ESOL classes from pre-entry to upper-intermediate. :)

Let me break it down for you, son.

Anti - against
religion - religion
ist - a suffix of nouns, often corresponding to verbs ending in -ize or nouns ending in -ism, that denote a person who practices or is concerned with something, or holds certain principles, doctrines, etc.: apologist; dramatist; machinist; novelist; realist; socialist; Thomist.

Source: -ist | Define -ist at Dictionary.com


Someone who is against organised religion.


English is a very flexible language. That's one of the beauties of it.
 

Oz-Man

Member
"herp derp I can only look to literalism and selected scholars to fuel my lack of actual study into Islam andI don't want to look at other points of view including other scholars hurr durr i'm so cool and 2 edgy 4 u bro".

LOL. When I mentioned scholars in the beginning; both you and Archer dismissed them like they mean nothing and now i am being accused of being "selective" towards scholars? Oh wow; all credibility shot to ****.

Show me some established Sunni Islamic scholars that claim Evolution is compatible with Islam. I love how you both claim to be superior than certified Islamic scholars haha. Muslims should not go to Islamic scholars anymore for guidance; they should go to you guys! Because you guys are "real" Muslims that have more knowledge than Islamic scholars. Any Muslim that puts Islamic scholars above you guys don't know anything about Islam!

Tariq Ramadan
[youtube]nT7cda4bMok[/youtube]
Islam and Science - Tariq RAMADAN - YouTube

Yusuf Estes
[youtube]pWGPwDQaReY[/youtube]
Yusuf Estes about evolution part 1 - YouTube


"Dr" Zakir Naik
[youtube]WtGrKolN0ig[/youtube]
Does Holy Quran goes against Darwin's Theory of Evolution Dr Zakir Naik - YouTube


Are you guys more credible than those scholars? Yeah? Prove it.

The Quran goes against the idea that evolution is compatible with Islam.

The Hadiths go against it.

The Tafsirs go against it.

The scholars go against it.

But you guys don't; you two > Islamic scholars, the Quran and the Hadiths hahahaha this is too good

Oh but there is. Sterling just showed you that there was.

Besides, you can't be prescriptive with language. Languages evolve.

I studied linguistics, including semantics, pragmatics, syntax, and teaching ESOL. In addition, I teach ESOL classes from pre-entry to upper-intermediate. :)

Let me break it down for you, son.

Anti - against
religion - religion
ist - a suffix of nouns, often corresponding to verbs ending in -ize or nouns ending in -ism, that denote a person who practices or is concerned with something, or holds certain principles, doctrines, etc.: apologist; dramatist; machinist; novelist; realist; socialist; Thomist.

Source: -ist | Define -ist at Dictionary.com


Someone who is against organised religion.


English is a very flexible language. That's one of the beauties of it.

Fair enough.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
[youtube]nT7cda4bMok[/youtube]
Islam and Science - Tariq RAMADAN - YouTube

Yusuf Estes
[youtube]pWGPwDQaReY[/youtube]
Yusuf Estes about evolution part 1 - YouTube


"Dr" Zakir Naik
[youtube]WtGrKolN0ig[/youtube]
Does Holy Quran goes against Darwin's Theory of Evolution Dr Zakir Naik - YouTube


Are you guys more credible than those scholars? Yeah? Prove it.


Fair enough.

You must be joking. All 3 of these individuals are jokes and I have made a response debunking Yusuf Estes's incapability to learn basic science.

Estes on top of this cannot even recite the Qur'an properly. The only person regarded as a scholar is Naik and he is beyond debunked as he is a shock evangelical.

:biglaugh: NONE of these people have credibility. I cannot even count the blunders all 3 of these individuals have made.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
LOL. When I mentioned scholars in the beginning; both you and Archer dismissed them like they mean nothing and now i am being accused of being "selective" towards scholars?
No, not at all. Scholars don't matter to me personally. The fact is, though, that you ARE being selective to scholars.

Show me some established Sunni Islamic scholars that claim Evolution is compatible with Islam. [snipping out some herp derp]
Edip Yüksel.
Ghulam Ahmed Pervez.
Folks at the Deen Institute.
Ahmadiyya Muslims also accept it.


Zakir Naik is a joke. Many Muslims see him as a charlatan.
Yusuf Estes, the guy is a wonderfully nice and charming guy (I've had the pleasure of speaking to him, he is really warm and likeable), but he is woefully ignorant of evolution. This is evident from his lectures.
I don't know the other guy, nor did I listen. I don't have time, nor am I really interested. I know creationist rhetoric.

American Imams: Islam Compatible with Biological Evolution

You just need to accept that some do not see Islam and evolution as enemies. You should be welcoming it, not trying to make people accept either Islam or evolution. This is what anti-theists such as Dawkins have done, and they have succeeded in making creationism grow.

I've also showed you how sizeable chunks of the population in multiple Islamic countries accept evolution. Why is that not good enough? Why are you trying to preach how they are incompatible?

The Quran goes against the idea that evolution is compatible with Islam.
You don't understand mythology.
The Hadiths go against it.
You don't understand mythology.
The Tafsirs go against it.
They don't understand mythology.
The scholars go against it.
(Not all, but anyway.) They don't understand mythology.
 

Oz-Man

Member
No, not at all. Scholars don't matter to me personally. The fact is, though, that you ARE being selective to scholars.


Edip Yüksel.
Ghulam Ahmed Pervez.
Folks at the Deen Institute.
Ahmadiyya Muslims also accept it.


Zakir Naik is a joke. Many Muslims see him as a charlatan.
Yusuf Estes, the guy is a wonderfully nice and charming guy (I've had the pleasure of speaking to him, he is really warm and likeable), but he is woefully ignorant of evolution. This is evident from his lectures.
I don't know the other guy, nor did I listen. I don't have time, nor am I really interested. I know creationist rhetoric.

American Imams: Islam Compatible with Biological Evolution

You just need to accept that some do not see Islam and evolution as enemies. You should be welcoming it, not trying to make people accept either Islam or evolution. This is what anti-theists such as Dawkins have done, and they have succeeded in making creationism grow.

I've also showed you how sizeable chunks of the population in multiple Islamic countries accept evolution. Why is that not good enough? Why are you trying to preach how they are incompatible?


You don't understand mythology.

You don't understand mythology.

They don't understand mythology.

(Not all, but anyway.) They don't understand mythology.

Bro, I do welcome it and with open arms. I was just making the point that Sunni scholarship is generally against the idea. And, i'll admit; I was trolling and provoking you for a reaction; which I apologize for as you have been nothing but tolerable. On a serious note though; do you consider yourself a Sunni Muslim? And what do your Muslim friends think about your viewpoint?

As i've said before; I used to be a Muslim. I was actually born in Afghanistan and my family is generally very religious (save for my parents). I also grew up in a Muslim community and most of my Islamic friends are completely against the idea of evolution being compatible with Islam.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Bro, I do welcome it and with open arms. I was just making the point that Sunni scholarship is generally against the idea. And, i'll admit; I was trolling and provoking you for a reaction; which I apologize for as you have been nothing but tolerable.
No worries, I've been goading. I'm easygoing, I swear. ;)

On a serious note though; do you consider yourself a Sunni Muslim?
Hmmm. Most folk assume I'm an atheist in real life (until they see the inside of the house, where they're then confused ;)). When asked about religion, I'm cagey. I fill out Religion with 'Prefer not to disclose' usually, because I change positions frequently in accordance with new knowledge and with spiritual experiences.

And what do your Muslim friends think about your viewpoint?
Nobody's made a fuss over it, Muslim, Christian, or otherwise, but it rarely crops up in day to day life. I assume they accept evolution by default.

I've mentioned evolution to a few Muslims a few months ago when there was a bomb threat in a nearby building, meaning we had to evacuate. They asked why people would want to do that. I said it's because we're a violent species, we're not like our bonobo cousins but are more similar to chimps, and that it's a tough one, as if we weren't competitive we'd've probably died out as a species before civilization, but our tendency for violence in times of extreme frustration results in stuff like this.

The response I got was "Yeah, I agree, but still, I just wish people be rational. Why can't people just think and talk about it?"

And thankfully it was a hoax.

As i've said before; I used to be a Muslim. I was actually born in Afghanistan and my family is generally very religious (save for my parents). I also grew up in a Muslim community and most of my Islamic friends are completely against the idea of evolution being compatible with Islam.
Unfortunately, revivalistic, fundamentalist movements are causing an increase of literalism in multiple religions, which includes a simplistic reading of scriptural text. In addition to a lack of scientific education in impoverished nations, it's no wonder it exists.

Coupled with general ignorance of evolution, this spells disaster.

Our understanding of evolution as a society has actually got worse; high school children in the 1920s understood evolution better than many folk today.

Evolution is a tricky subject for most, though. It's hard. It's detailed. It's complex. It changes. Some people can't handle change, thinking science has to be perfect and shouldn't be able to be revised otherwise it can't be true (I heard that from an atheist. Jaw hit the floor.). When you have something as certain as a religious myth, sometimes people prefer the easier route to the less accurate, and since evolution doesn't play that big an aspect in their lives, they don't think about it. Even though they will go to the doctors for a flu jab because of a new strain... :D
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Humans didn't evolve from monkeys.

Humans share ancestors with all living things. Our closest relative (not grandparent) is the chimpanzees. And it is confirmed in the DNA.

There's a difference.

Put it this way, let me ask you, do you come from your brother? Is your brother your father? No, of course not. But your brother and you share the same parents (unless you're adopted or half-sibling). So it happens, it can be seen in the DNA. The same goes for monkeys and apes. It can be proven in the DNA that we share ancestry (grand-grand-grand-grand...-grand-...parents) with them. We also share ancestry with bananas. But we didn't come from bananas, or apes, or monkeys.

On another note, there's a big difference between apes and monkeys. Look it up.
thanks for this info , i agree with you about our relative is not came from monkeys .

I just want to informe you about the concept of our ancestor in million of years in my understanding and some "tafsir" explains of Quran .

so the Quran confirme that Adam is could be the first reasonable/thinking human, and there could be were creatures looks like humans ,close to the humans being,but it's seems they were non reasonable (act like animals ) .

from Quran :
2-30
And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. (30) And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful. (31)

first of all ,angels don't know the future .
so how the angels knows that Adam would shed blood and harm , if it's not happened before -in past- ?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Poetry can be interpreted to mean anything, except things contradicting the readers preconceived notions.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Godobeyer said:
M[FONT=&quot]aybe many people don't feel or notice that , we are just a combine of sprem and egg in other hand a result of instinct .[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]HOW do you believe that the combine between the sprem and egg is evolution ,NOT creation?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]and HOW do you believe that the period of the baby inside his mother (the 9 months), is evolution NOT creation?[/FONT]

so the male and female , sprem and egg are four creatures ,they creat or evolute NEW creature "babe"?

Do you believe that God created humans instantly, or took millions of years to evolve them?
 

philbo

High Priest of Cynicism
Individuals don't evolve, populations do.
Human != Pokemon :)
..seriously, though, at times I do think the Pokemon phenomenon has put understanding of evolution back a generation

This has been an interesting thread: I'd not come across Al-Jahiz before, and he seems to have been quite a bloke.
 
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