6000 years

[Monk Of Reason]

Proof the universe is more than 6000 years old.

1) Light travels at a fixed rate

2) We can tell how far away stars are within a few lightyears

3) Light is reaching us NOW from starts millions of lightyears away.

 

[4YAH80]

Why do people believe that the bible says that the earth is 6000 years old? I have read Genesis repeatedly trying to figure this out, all I saw was incomplete genealogies and therefore could not come up with an age for the earth...where does this thought come from?

 

[Me Myself]

Why do people believe that the bible says that the earth is 6000 years old? I have read Genesis repeatedly trying to figure this out, all I saw was incomplete genealogies and therefore could not come up with an age for the earth...where does this thought come from?

Adding the ages of people before jesus, given that jesus genealogy goes back to adam.

 

[Ouroboros]

Why do people believe that the bible says that the earth is 6000 years old? I have read Genesis repeatedly trying to figure this out, all I saw was incomplete genealogies and therefore could not come up with an age for the earth...where does this thought come from?

I did it myself one time. It's very simple. Go through the different genealogies and add up when each person "begot" a son.

Put it this way:

A was born year 1. A begat B at the age of 30. Hence B was born at year 30. B begat C at age of 50. That means C was born at age 80. And so on. Most of these can be found in the old testament.

I think I only had a problem with one generation. Some age was missing for one (or two?) but most of the other ones are there.

You'll end up with around 4,000 years until Jesus supposed birth.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I show in this post both Christian Bible, Jewish Bible and the Quran are reconcilable with regards to creation story, and they do not contradict with Science. Even considering the statement this world is 6000 years correct. Then I will show how all of these points to Baha'i Revelation.

I will show all these by verifiable recorded Traditions that this interpretation is the original interpretation of the Prophets and saints of old times, and nothing invented new.

Notice that although in our time, Just about more than 6000 years is passed from the Time of Adam according to Bible stories, but according to some of the Traditions recorded thousands of years before us, ALSO the World duration was 6000 years, and after that the End of the World Comes:

Among these traditions:

The Talmud comments:

R. Katina said, “Six thousand years the world will exist and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate (haruv), as it is written, ‘And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day’ (Isa. 2:11)...
Jewish eschatology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Saint Augustine taught that there are six ages of the world in his De catechizandis rudibus (On the Catechising of the Uninstructed). Augustine was not the first to conceive of the Six Ages, which had its roots in the Jewish tradition, but he was the first Christian to write about it, and as his ideas became central to the church so did his authority.
The theory originated from a passage in II Peter:

"But of this one thing be not ignorant, my beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (II Peter 3:8)

The interpretation was taken to mean that mankind would live through six 1,000 year periods (or "days"), with the seventh being eternity in heaven or according to the Nicene Creed, a World to Come.
Six Ages of the World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Similar Traditions exists in Islam, which makes a mention of the duration of World Being 6000 years. (References upon request)


Though it may appear the Books are talking about physical creation of World, what was intended by the creation story in Bible and Quran was not about creation of the Physical World, but these Prophets were speaking of Creation of human generations within a 6000 years Cycle, in a sense that their Revelations would create new people in terms of Spirituallity and civilizations. This point can for example be seen by both Quran and Bible:

"The Merciful, Taught the Quran, Created man" Quran 55:1-3

We notice the chronological order of events as expressed in the verses that the Qur'an was "taught" before man was created: "taught the Qur'an, created man".

The meaning becomes clear if the teachings of the Qur'an are considered as creating a new generation of men.

Same can be seen in Bible:

"And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." Ephesians 4:24​

Both Quran and Christian, and Jewish Bible agree that the world is created in 6 days, and all state that a Day of God is a 1000 years. Hence all the mentioned Traditions, the 6000 years creation.

And Both state that there is an End of World, which after that a New World appear:

“Are We wearied out with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation!” Quran 50:15

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13​

Therefore according to all these statements, the World that was 6000 years has ended and a New earth that we live in was to appear.​

In Baha'i Scriprues it is stated:​

"Verily, We have caused every soul to expire by virtue of Our irresistible and all-subduing sovereignty. We have, then, called into being a new creation, as a token of Our grace unto men. I am, verily, the All-Bountiful, the Ancient of Days."​

- Baha'u'llah​

 

[savagewind]

Therefore according to all these statements, the World that was 6000 years has ended and a New earth that we live in was to appear.

Then according to you does the new world appear "on time" or as scheduled, which is when, please?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then according to you does the new world appear "on time" or as scheduled, which is when, please?

Hi savagewind,

The information I put above is only an introduction.
I would be happy to answer your question.
The answer would be like puting pieces of puzzle togather so the overall picture is seen. I think it would take at least 10 posts to put the pieces together.
So I would like to ask you if you would like to start this and go to the end of it.
Then I put one post at a time. When you read it, then let me know and then I put the next and between each of my posts feel free to comment or ask more question. Let me know if you are interested.

 

[CG Didymus]

And Both state that there is an End of World, which after that a New World appear

How do Baha'is interpret Noah's Flood?

 

[savagewind]

Hi savagewind,

The information I put above is only an introduction.
I would be happy to answer your question.
The answer would be like puting pieces of puzzle togather so the overall picture is seen. I think it would take at least 10 posts to put the pieces together.
So I would like to ask you if you would like to start this and go to the end of it.
Then I put one post at a time. When you read it, then let me know and then I put the next and between each of my posts feel free to comment or ask more question. Let me know if you are interested.

I think I want to hear from you not from the sage who is dead. My Lord lives. If I would believe what your wise men have said I think The Lord would have directed me to it. In other words, please do not bother posting excerpts from your holy book or books. I think I like to keep things simple. Thank you.

All good days equal a thousand years each, and they come to their end after a thousand years. Why are the wicked days not coming to an end in a thousand years? Why is wickedness being given more TIME?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think I want to hear from you not from the sage who is dead.

Hi savagewind, I guess your reply would start a little bit if debate if you don't mind.


Who is the Sage that is Dead?

My Lord lives.

Who is your Lord, and How do you know He Lives?

If I would believe what your wise men have said I think The Lord would have directed me to it.

I would say the Lord has directed everyone to Himself, but He has given everyone free Will to accept Him or reject Him.
My Lord does not force anyone.

In other words, please do not bother posting excerpts from your holy book or books. I think I like to keep things simple. Thank you.

To tell you sincerely, that would be your loss, because Baha'i Holy Books have the answers for the questions people have in this Age. The Lord has directed everyone to learn from Them. But my Lord does not force anybody.

All good days equal a thousand years each, and they come to their end after a thousand years. Why are the wicked days not coming to an end in a thousand years? Why is wickedness being given more TIME?

The Lord has revealed a Guidance that would bring Mankind to peace and Unity. Depending how fast the Mankind response and obeys, the faster the wickedness will go away. My Lord does not force anyone.

 

[savagewind]

Who is the Sage that is Dead?

I don't know. I think it is who you quote.

Who is your Lord, and How do you know He Lives?

Yehoshua the Son of YHVH. He was resurrected already. Thank God! How do I know? I don't know how I know.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I don't know. I think it is who you quote

oh Baha'u'llah? No He is not just a Sage. He is the Lord of the Age.
And He is Alive.

Yehoshua the Son of YHVH. He was resurrected already.

Oh, this is what is written in a Book called Bible, which millions of people reject it.
There is even little proof who wrote it.

Thank God! How do I know? I don't know how I know.

I could tell you how I know, If you are interested in about 10 Posts.
It will be 75% Bible. 10% Quran, and the rest Baha'i Scriptures.
Let me know if you are interested.

 

[savagewind]

He is the Lord of the Age.

I hear the lord of the age is called satan and not someone to mess with.

 

[savagewind]

Oh, this is what is written in a Book called Bible, which millions of people reject it.
There is even little proof who wrote it.

Millions of people reject the Bible, you say? All of it, or some of it? Truth is real. It does not matter who writes it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I hear the lord of the age is called satan and not someone to mess with.

You heard from the wrong Sources. Satan is "Prince of the Power of the Air".


The Lord of the Age, is Manifestation of God who appears in each Age.

Reconcile these Three:


"But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses." Exodus 9:12

"He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them." John 12:40

"Those whose intellects The God of this world (the Lord of Age) has blinded, because they do not believe, lest the light of The Gospel of the glory of The Messiah, who is the image of God, should dawn upon them." 2 Cor 4:4

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Millions of people reject the Bible, you say?

Much more than that. There are just millions of Jews who reject the NT.

Then you have billions of people who are either Atheists, Hindus, Buddhist.

All of it, or some of it?

Many of them all of it. Even many Christians some of it.
But Baha'is accept ALL of it. In our view each Age has its own Book revealed. The Hebrew Scriptures, New Testament, Quran, the Bayan, and Baha'i Scriptures are just different chapters of the Book of God, revealed for different Ages. The latest one of them though, is Baha'i Scriptures.

Truth is real. It does not matter who writes it.

It does matter who wrote it. If it is written by those who were inspired by God, then it is Truth. If it is written by men, who were not inspired by God, it is not Trustworthy to put your Faith and Hope on.

 

[savagewind]

He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them

Isaiah said this. John is repeating what Isaiah said about his own experience.


I believe Isaiah 6:10 is God giving Isaiah the license to speak God's words without worrying about making them understandable.

Exodus 9:12 says YHVH hardned his heart. Surely you are not comparing Man (any man who comes in anyone's name) to YHVH?

And

Jehovah's Witnesses actually define the one in 2 Corinthians 4:4 as Satan. I don't know who it is.

So

According to Baha'i who or what is satan please? Who is the one who will be cast out as in; 30Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out

 

[savagewind]

Whenever anyone claims to be as good as YHVH this is what they are doing....(I think)

Romans 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Even God's Son never said he was The Father, did he?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

According to Baha'i who or what is satan please? Who is the one who will be cast out as in; 30Jesus answered and said, "This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes. 31"Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out

The Prophets of the past have spoken of one who is called Satan or Devil, and have said that he is the cause of wickedness in the world. Then they prophesied that there will come a time that this Devil would be removed and Righteousness would appear on earth. They Marked that Day to come 6000 years after Adam.

The People of the past who understood these terms literally and outwardly, have imagined that there is actually a person in the world who is Satan that influences mankind and causes them to do sin. Therefore in their mind, the very moment this Devil or Satan is removed, then all the sudden Righteousness miraculously appears on the surface of earth.

In Baha'i view, the Prophets of the Past have spoken in symbolic language.
What they meant by Satanic force, was the selfishness, lack of spiritual qualities and understanding which is the cause of wickedness.
Those Prophets prophesied that after 6000 years period a New World would appear, the Lord comes and the Righteousness appears. Some called it New Age. Some called it Age of enlightenment...

That period ended in year 1844, which can be calculated consistently from several Prophecies in Hebrew Scriptures, New Testament, Quran and Hadithes. (At least in 5 ways)

In the same year as prophesied a New Revelation came from the Lord, who is the cause of enlightening of Mankind.


However, let me give an analogy. Suppose we are told in Spring the life comes to nature and the trees and plant become green the fruits appear. We are told 21st of March is the Day that Marks Spring.

Then when 21st of March comes, you say, how come the fruits are not there and still so many trees and plants are not green yet.
The Point is All the effects of spring is not manifested in the very same Day.

Likewise, just at the end of 6000 years and the very same Moment the effect of a new world is not Manifested completely all the Sudden. But its effect is Manifested gradually and it fruits appear in the Summer of the Revelation.

Most people who are realistic agree that since the 19th century we have moved to a new era of human civilization and the world has become a new world.

Notice in chapter of Revelation it was prophesied when the Promised Age comes, He would make the world new:

"Behold, I am making all things new" Rev 21:5


And in Baha'i writings it was said 100 years ago:

"Now the new age is here and creation is reborn. Humanity hath taken on new life. The autumn hath gone by, and the reviving spring is here. All things are now made new. Arts and industries have been reborn, there are new discoveries in science, and there are new inventions; even the details of human affairs, such as dress and personal effects—even weapons—all these have likewise been renewed. The laws and procedures of every government have been revised. Renewal is the order of the day.
And all this newness hath its source in the fresh outpourings of wondrous grace and favour from the Lord of the Kingdom, which have renewed the world. The people, therefore, must be set completely free from their old patterns of thought, that all their attention may be focused upon these new principles, for these are the light of this time and the very spirit of this age."
Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 252-253


Notice that when Bahaullah appeared about a one and a half century ago He wrote:

"Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen." Baha'u'llah

Many people do not see how a Revelation from God can be the cause of advancement in human civilization. In Baha'i View and as I also quoted from Bible and Quran, a Revelation of God cause advancement of New Human Civilizations. Because through the guidance that comes, humanity is moved in the right direction.

If we look at the time before 19th century, there were wars, Kingdoms against Kingdoms. The slavery was a regular practice. Even Bible does not prohibit it except for kidnapping. The racism was a regular thing. White was considered superior to black. The Women did not have the right to vote.
All these things existed for thousands of years, and all the sudden in the last 150 years all these started to either vanish completely or significantly be reduced and be considered old and obsolete.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Even God's Son never said he was The Father, did he?

Do you reject the Prophecies of Hebrew Scriptures?

Who is this who was Prophesied:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6


It is Baha'u'llah:


"Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled! This is the Word which the Son concealed, when to those around Him He said: ‘Ye cannot bear it now.’ And when the appointed time was fulfilled and the Hour had struck, the Word shone forth above the horizon of the Will of God. Beware, O followers of the Son, that ye cast it not behind your backs." Tablet to the Christians, Baha'u'llah


Notice Jesus title was 'The Son' not 'The Father'.
'The Father' was the title of Baha'u'llah. Not to be confused with claiming to be God. Just as Jesus title was 'The Son' not to be confused He was a biological Son of God. Though I noticed many take every thing literal.
Also notice the Mission of Jesus was not to bring peace, as He said: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

But it was the mission of Baha'u'llah to bring peace as He wrote to the Rulers of earth:

"That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."

"That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled—what harm is there in this?... Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come"

"We cherish the hope that through the earnest endeavours of such as are the exponents of the power of God—exalted be His glory—the weapons of war throughout the world may be converted into instruments of reconstruction and that strife and conflict may be removed from the midst of men."