6000 years

[savagewind]

because most people dont understand how the concept of god was created, nor evolved at mans hands

This is funny, funny funny. God is a spirit, But people tend to believe all the elements on the table appeared for nothing, but God the Spirit could NOT have appeared for something. Odd, very odd.

 

[outhouse]

This is funny, funny funny. God is a spirit, But people tend to believe all the elements on the table appeared for nothing, but God the Spirit could NOT have appeared for something. Odd, very odd.

thing is we dont know what he is, outside mythology, but we can track the formation of people who wrote about many previous gods used by said culture, and witness how they changed the mythology to their own needs, and slowly redefining the deities to meet changing cultural needs, before compiling two deities into one as cultural needs changed again into the concept you think you know.

all of which is pretty much factual.

 

[outhouse]

We accept evolution. There is indisputable evidence for it. But evolution needs DNA and power. The DNA was designed by God and the power for forward motion comes form God Almighty. IMHO

power is nothing more then converting enviromental elements containing energy, into energy species can use. that is chemistry and not a mystery and completely understood by science, humans convert sugar energy the brain requires by converting the energy in food sources.

DNA evolved as well, and there really isnt a mystery behind it, people can read it like a book to unlock changes in the earths past history left in its codes, and there is no mystery that can be attributed to any deity in any aspect.

 

[savagewind]

all of which is pretty much factual

Absolutely! People observe WHAT IS and make up stories to explain it.

But you do not know what he is because you have not pursued knowing.

James 4:8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you

 

[savagewind]

power is nothing more then converting enviromental elements containing energy, into energy species can use. that is chemistry and not a mystery and completely understood by science, humans convert sugar energy the brain requires by converting the energy in food sources.

DNA evolved as well, and there really isnt a mystery behind it, people can read it like a book to unlock changes in the earths past history left in its codes, and there is no mystery that can be attributed to any deity in any aspect.

Oh my, I must disagree again.... has Einstein's theory been disproved? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. If it is true then, who created power, or for real, where did it come from?

 

[outhouse]

In all honesty, 6000 years ago, is a number that should be scraped by all theist, its actually evidence of the ignorance of theology crossing the lines into reality regarding creation accounts.

 

[outhouse]

But you do not know what he is because you have not pursued knowing.

dont be so fast to judge

40 ish years as a theist in the Luthren faith


only education, opened my eyes where faith had them shut. knowledge of the past gave me a clear picture of exactly how in my opinion, man has created deities one after the other.


your yourself discount as many past gods as I do, the main difference is I only discount, 1 more then you do out of thousands of deities created in he past

 

[savagewind]

In all honesty, 6000 years ago, is a number that should be scraped by all theist, its actually evidence of the ignorance of theology crossing the lines into reality regarding creation accounts.

Yes, it can prove to be a stumbling block, I agree!

 

[savagewind]

dont be so fast to judge

40 ish years as a theist in the Luthren faith

Dogma and rhetoric is far, far away from knowing the Living God.

 

[outhouse]

Oh my, I must disagree again.... has Einstein's theory been disproved? Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. If it is true then, who created power, or for real, where did it come from?

I clearly stated converted

all energy we will ever know was created in the big bang

which cannot be attributed to a deity by scientific standards

 

[McBell]

Read literally, the Bible implicitly says that the entire universe was built 6000 years ago, with nothing pre-existing.

Really? Show me..

it does state it though.

Really? Show me...

Still waiting...

if you read earlier

through the bibles geneology and ages attributed

geneologies and ages attributed do not "implicitly says that the entire universe was built 6000 years ago, with nothing pre-existing".


So like I said:

still waiting...
​

guess what?
yeppers,

still waiting...

 

[savagewind]

cannot be attributed to a deity by scientific standards

This must be the understatement of the centuries.

If "all energy...was created in the big bang" then energy can be created and what I have heard is wrong.

 

[outhouse]

guess what?
yeppers,

still waiting...

for what

the geneology and ages of people within its pages have been used to get this 6000 ish number.

as well as a date for a mythical flood.


I provided the evidence, you can only debate that,

im waiting

 

[fallingblood]

where did you get this idea of creation from?

and does it carry any credibility beyond mythology?

Where did it originally come from? I don't know. And really, to get any credible idea of where it came from can't be taken from where an individual person came to believe it as obviously they were taught it. Where it originally came from is what must be gotten at.

I think the mythology contains quite a bit of credibility if one understands the truth the mythology is getting at. Does the idea of creation though carry any sort of credibility? I don't know. It's possible, and science certainly doesn't depict that it doesn't.

based from what source?

is there any supporting evidence?

Does there need to? The belief in God is based on faith. The belief that God is the beginner, is also based on faith. And there is nothing wrong with having faith.

nor does it rule our pink unicorns with purple spots

Observation and knowledge of our world rule out pink unicorns with purple spots. So really, that is a bad example on your part. And really, I do know what you're getting at, but really, it is an illogical argument.

multiple reasons

evolution is credible

creation is mythology, with no credibility at all, it has the same credibility a pink unicorns with purple spots and a solid gold horn

Creation is not mythology. The creation accounts are mythology (I do ask you to get a good book on mythology. There are some introductory works (primary for college courses) that are very helpful. I ask you this because from your comments, I get the picture that you don't understand what mythology really is).

And just because evolution is credible, that really isn't a reason why one can't hold evolution and creationism. What you did was basically supply an either or fallacy.

Also, creation has more credibility then pink unicorns with purple spots, simply because we can observe this world and see that no such thing exists. When talking about creation, we are talking about something that happened outside this world (at least in this context), that was the beginning of the universe.

creation is still evident in place of science despite being outlawed from public schools, this is a serious problem in education

You're moving the goal posts here. Creationism, as in a literal interpretation of the Genesis account, as if it were science, is banned from being taught in science classrooms. The idea of creationism is not banned from public schools as it can and is taught about in literature classes.

More so, the sort of creation idea that I'm talking about has nothing to do with creationism that you are referring to here. That is moving the goal posts a lot and I really do feel that it is dishonest.

because most people dont understand how the concept of god was created, nor evolved at mans hands

The concept of evolution was also created. It was created by individuals observing what they could, and coming to a conclusion, which evolved over time.

Just because someone creates a concept of God, that doesn't mean that they created God. It means they created a concept of God based on their perception. They used what they observed to come to a conclusion.

 

[outhouse]

This must be the understatement of the centuries.

If "all energy...was created in the big bang" then energy can be created and what I have heard is wrong.

I have always thought this energy existed previously as well.


in any case the context of the word creation the way I used it needs to be addressed. Created in this dimension of space time.


anyway we are at a gap in scientific knowledge, gods possible place has been been pushed back to this gap, which is closing with knowledge gained.

there have been many of these gaps closed in the past that used to be falsely attributed

 

[McBell]

for what

the geneology and ages of people within its pages have been used to get this 6000 ish number.

as well as a date for a mythical flood.


I provided the evidence, you can only debate that,

im waiting

Out of ideal curiosity, but more because I think you are back peddling, do you honestly think that the "evidence" you presented supports the claim:

... Bible implicitly says that the entire universe was built 6000 years ago, with nothing pre-existing"
​

 

[fallingblood]

dont be so fast to judge

40 ish years as a theist in the Luthren faith


only education, opened my eyes where faith had them shut. knowledge of the past gave me a clear picture of exactly how in my opinion, man has created deities one after the other.


your yourself discount as many past gods as I do, the main difference is I only discount, 1 more then you do out of thousands of deities created in he past

This sort of argument has always annoyed me because it just isn't logical. Many people spend their lives in a faith, and know basically nothing about it. Just being a Lutheran (and I would be willing to venture that you probably are not familiar with all of the Lutheran theology, as most aren't) doesn't mean you know anything about the religion, or Christianity as a whole. Being a theist means zilch when talking about knowing what theism states.

Also, the idea that theists discount nearly as many gods really is a poor argument as well. Personally, I have a monistic view in which there has only ever been one God, but that it came in many different forms, and/or people perceived it differently.

But none the less, it has no bearing on anything as many people also discount many ideas regarding a variety of other things, but keep just one.

for what

the geneology and ages of people within its pages have been used to get this 6000 ish number.

For you to actually address the question that was posed. It started here: Read literally, the Bible implicitly says that the entire universe was built 6000 years ago, with nothing pre-existing. (as said by PolyHedral). So the question really is, where does the Bible implicitly say that the entire universe was built 6,000 years ago, and nothing pre-existed.

At best, the genealogy and ages only take us to the birth of Adam, and then one would have to take the seven days of creation extremely literal (as the story concerning Adam and even gives absolutely no time period on how long creation took). And then it doesn't state that the world was created exactly when the universe was. In fact, it doesn't tell us when the universe was created. Even more though, it does not state that nothing pre-existed. Instead, if one really reads the Bible, there is suggestion that creation was not ex-nihlio. That before creation, there was something.

 

[outhouse]

Out of ideal curiosity, but more because I think you are back peddling, do you honestly think that the "evidence" you presented supports the claim:

... Bible implicitly says that the entire universe was built 6000 years ago, with nothing pre-existing"
​

here ya go, youll have to love my translation for the definition of implicitly [under the umbrella of read literally]


Young Earth creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Septuagint has traditionally been calculated to date the creation around 5500 BC, while the Samaritan Torah around 4300 BC, and the Masoretic around 4000 BC.[17] Many of the earliest Christians who followed the Septuagint calculated creation around 5500 BC, and Christians up to the Middle-Ages continued to use this rough estimate: Clement of Alexandria (5592 BC), Julius Africanus (5501 BC), Eusebius (5228 BC), Jerome (5199 BC) Hippolytus of Rome (5500 BC), Theophilus of Antioch (5529 BC), Sulpicius Severus (5469 BC), Isidore of Seville (5336 BC), Panodorus of Alexandria (5493 BC), Maximus the Confessor (5493 BC), George Syncellus (5492 BC) and Gregory of Tours (5500 BC).[18][19][20] The Byzantine calendar has traditionally dated the creation of the world to 1 September, 5509 BC, María de Ágreda and her followers to 5199 BC while the early Ethiopian Church (as revealed in the Book of Aksum) to 5493 BC.[21][22] Bede was one of the first to break away from the standard Septuagint date for the creation and in his work De Temporibus ("On Time") (completed in 703 AD) dated the creation to 18 March 3952 BC but was accused of heresy at the table of Bishop Wilfrid, because his chronology was contrary to accepted calculations of around 5500 BC.[23] After the Masoretic text however was published, dating creation around 4000 BC became common, and was received with wide support.[24] Proposed calculations of the date of creation, using the Masoretic from the 10th century – 18th century include: Marianus Scotus (4192 BC), Maimonides (4058 BC), Henri Spondanus (4051 BC), Benedict Pereira (4021 BC), Louis Cappel (4005 BC), James Ussher (4004 BC), Augustin Calmet (4002 BC), Isaac Newton (4000 BC), Johannes Kepler (27 April, 3977 BC) [based on his book Mysterium], Petavius (3984 BC), Theodore Bibliander (3980 BC), Christen Sørensen Longomontanus (3966 BC), Melanchthon (3964 BC), Martin Luther (3961 BC), John Lightfoot (3960 BC), Cornelius Cornelii a Lapide (3951 BC) Joseph Justus Scaliger (3949 BC), Christoph Helvig (3947 BC), Gerardus Mercator (3928 BC), Matthieu Brouard (3927 BC), Benito Arias Montano (3849 BC), Andreas Helwig (3836 BC), David Gans (3761 BC) and Gershom ben Judah (3754 BC).

And the creation account simply states there was nothing before hand

1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth

and that is all they knew from their stance of ignorance on the universe, the earth and space.

 

[outhouse]

Creation is not mythology.

prove it then

until then it stays where it was born


just be thankful its still outlawed from public schools

 

[Shermana]

The fossil record seems to do a good job disproving that.

You mean the scientific consensus based on raw data that's not publicly available does a good job disproving that? Or do you mean the fossils themselves?