7.5 Million Americans Lost Their Religion in the Past Two Years

[Salvador]

I think it's unfortunate that Americans are losing their religion; because this will lead to a rise in our nation's immorality. As a Christian nation, most of the people would be god-fearing Christians who always strive to follow the Golden Rule. Christians are compelled by their beliefs to behave morally; because they believe in a God who watches their every move and they believe in a God will hold them accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. However, many atheists are probably only compelled to behave morally when they are being watched by somebody in society who can hold them accountable for their immoral behavior. Of course, society can't always look over the shoulder of everybody and it is therefore unable to hold everyone accountable for their immorality; whereas, an omnipotent and omnipresent Christian God can always hold everyone accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. I could be wrong here, but I do expect immoral behavior and violent crime statistics will increase due to a lack of Christian faith and values.

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

I think it's unfortunate that Americans are losing their religion; because this will lead to a rise in our nation's immorality. As a Christian nation, most of the people would be god-fearing Christians who always strive to follow the Golden Rule. Christians are compelled by their beliefs to behave morally; because they believe in a God who watches their every move and they believe in a God will hold them accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. However, many atheists are probably only compelled to behave morally when they are being watched by somebody in society who can hold them accountable for their immoral behavior. Of course, society can't always look over the shoulder of everybody and it is therefore unable to hold everyone accountable for their immorality; whereas, an omnipotent and omnipresent Christian God can always hold everyone accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. I could be wrong here, but I do expect immoral behavior and violent crime statistics will increase due to a lack of Christian faith and values.

We are compelled to do right socially because it benefits us. Christians held slaves, hung withes, repressed science, subjugated women....and eventually became enlughtened and reconsidered their moralty when society no longer accepted those values. If you think goodness comes from religion, you are blind.

 

[fantome profane]

I think it's unfortunate that Americans are losing their religion; because this will lead to a rise in our nation's immorality.

There is absolutely no evidence of that, no reason to think that atheists or agnostics (like yourself) are any less moral than Christians or any religion.

 

[dust1n]

Yes, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the main reasons given by people for conversion to atheism is having read the bible. Of course, my memory isn't what it used to be, so I could be wrong.

My guess would attribute the growth largely to a newer generation that in general is less religion. I'm sure Christians turn all the time, but at the end of the day a generation of religious people are dying and generation that is largely secular is growing up.

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

There is absolutely no evidence of that, no reason to think that atheists or agnostics (like yourself) are any less moral than Christians or any religion.

Why don't you go on a stealing and killing spree? Likely because there would be huge legal ramifications and that you don't want others stealing from you or killing your people? Why are we mostly honest? Because a liar will lose friends and social standing, a liar will be rejected eventually socially. Why are we basically good to one another? Not because of religion but because on a subconscious level we know we thrive and experience a better quali ty of living in a society and that if we rebel against social norms and standards too much, we will be outcasts. We all conform to society. And we do it not out of goodness or a sense of religious morality, but because we thrive as a society.

 

[Marisa]

I think it's unfortunate that Americans are losing their religion; because this will lead to a rise in our nation's immorality. As a Christian nation, most of the people would be god-fearing Christians who always strive to follow the Golden Rule. Christians are compelled by their beliefs to behave morally; because they believe in a God who watches their every move and they believe in a God will hold them accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. However, many atheists are probably only compelled to behave morally when they are being watched by somebody in society who can hold them accountable for their immoral behavior. Of course, society can't always look over the shoulder of everybody and it is therefore unable to hold everyone accountable for their immorality; whereas, an omnipotent and omnipresent Christian God can always hold everyone accountable for their lack of faith and immorality. I could be wrong here, but I do expect immoral behavior and violent crime statistics will increase due to a lack of Christian faith and values.

If we are a christian nation (which is demonstrably false, as a quick reading of Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli will show) and religion is the only thing that keeps people moral, then please explain why we have the highest prison incarceration rate of any developed nation. Religions adopt morals because they benefit our species. It is to our benefit to be empathetic. Additionally, we are not the only species on the planet which possess morals. Most of the rest of the primate family has them (read a Franz De Waal book, he's a leading primatologist), elephants possess them, even canines. Incidentally, if the only thing keeping you ethical is belief that a superior being will punish you, you are devoid of ethics.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Subjugation of women is endemic and recurrent in the human situation. So is slavery. All cultural forces must be brought to bear against them. These evils embed themselves not just in religion but also in secular society. Fighting them takes more than pulling a lever and is a never ending struggle necessary for the entirety of all human beings. Vote Brickjectivity for president. I am Brickjectivity and I approve this message.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

7.5 million seems a lot in two years, and the graph looks like it is accelerating.
I exxpect the same would be found in Europe even though there is a large increase of moslem incomers.

 

[Salvador]

We are compelled to do right socially because it benefits us. Christians held slaves, hung withes, repressed science, subjugated women....and eventually became enlughtened and reconsidered their moralty when society no longer accepted those values. If you think goodness comes from religion, you are blind.

I think some false Christians have given Christianity a bad reputation. However, a true Christian does follow Jesus's commandment to treat others as you would want them to treat you. There are many Christian Churches and charitable organizations that help the poor, the sick, the elderly or orphaned children. Christian Churches and Christian organizations do help bring people together for fellowship and social networking. I'm not blind; because I do see the good in religion. I wish anti-theists would take a good look at themselves first before attacking religion.

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

I think some false Christians have given Christianity a bad reputation. However, a true Christian does follow Jesus's commandment to treat others as you would want them to treat you. There are many Christian Churches and charitable organizations that help the poor, the sick, the elderly or orphaned children. Christian Churches and Christian organizations do help bring people together for fellowship and social networking. I'm not blind; because I do see the good in religion. I wish anti-theists would take a good look at themselves first before attacking religion.

Religion has its pros and cons. I can see the good in religion. I was once a very religious person. My faith was a source of great comfort and conviction.

 

[DawudTalut]

Fascinating article....

7.5 Million Americans Lost Their Religion Since 2012 - Tobin Grant | God's Politics Blog | Sojourners

Please discuss.

They did not ask, why? why?

 

[Salvador]

There is absolutely no evidence of that, no reason to think that atheists or agnostics (like yourself) are any less moral than Christians or any religion.

Well, I just recently converted from a Christian to an agnostic when some RF atheists had proven that the biblical chronology which dates the first human (Adam) to around 4,000 BC is false. I've also recently learned that there plenty of genetic evidence which proves there is no way that all humans could have descendant from a limited gene pool of one couple such as the biblical Adam and Eve who lived just 6,000 years ago. I'm starting to doubt that I have a God-given soul. If there is plenty of fossil and genetic evidence that humans and chimpanzees do share a common primitive ape-like ancestor who had lived millions of years ago, then it doesn't make sense to me that there is a theistic God who would have waited around after some several thousand generations of gradually evolving apes to then randomly put a God-given "soul" into some randomly chosen great ape. Now that I believe myself to be a soulless ape who doesn't have to answer to God on Judgment Day, I'm not so sure if I would behave morally when I know that there is nobody watching me.

 

[Salvador]

QUOTE="Marisa, post: 4207881, member: 56440"]If we are a christian nation (which is demonstrably false, as a quick reading of Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli will show) and religion is the only thing that keeps people moral, then please explain why we have the highest prison incarceration rate of any developed nation. Religions adopt morals because they benefit our species. It is to our benefit to be empathetic. Additionally, we are not the only species on the planet which possess morals. Most of the rest of the primate family has them (read a Franz De Waal book, he's a leading primatologist), elephants possess them, even canines. Incidentally, if the only thing keeping you ethical is belief that a superior being will punish you, you are devoid of ethics.[/QUOTE]

The reason why America has the highest prison incarceration rate of any developed nation is because it jails people for victimless crimes such as smoking marijuana. Also, the American justice system focuses more on harshly punishing criminals rather than providing them with the education, job skills and social skills to function as productive members of society. If America were to adopt the Norwegian justice system, then there would be less repeat criminal offenders. I've posted a link to a YouTube video about the Norwegian justice system.

“Do you really mean to tell me the only reason you try to be good is to gain God's approval and reward, or to avoid his disapproval and punishment? That's not morality, that's just sucking up, apple-polishing, looking over your shoulder at the great surveillance camera in the sky, or the still small wiretap inside your head, monitoring your every move, even your every base though.” - Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Yes! Richard, you're right about the only reason why I try to be good.

 

[Marisa]

I think some false Christians have given Christianity a bad reputation. However, a true Christian does follow Jesus's commandment to treat others as you would want them to treat you. There are many Christian Churches and charitable organizations that help the poor, the sick, the elderly or orphaned children. Christian Churches and Christian organizations do help bring people together for fellowship and social networking. I'm not blind; because I do see the good in religion. I wish anti-theists would take a good look at themselves first before attacking religion.

Well that's kind of convenient. Next time an atheist does something I don't like, I'm going to claim that a "true atheist" wouldn't do whatever it is that one did.

A "true christian" is anyone who self identifies as such, whether you like their behavior or not. Using the fallacy you used, which is called "No True Scotsman", is a self preservation tactic used to allow you to take credit only for those whose behavior meets with your approval. The basic problem you have is that well over 70% of this country self identifies as christian, so the numbers just don't support your fallacy driven logic.

 

[fantome profane]

Why don't you go on a stealing and killing spree? Likely because there would be huge legal ramifications and that you don't want others stealing from you or killing your people? Why are we mostly honest? Because a liar will lose friends and social standing, a liar will be rejected eventually socially. Why are we basically good to one another? Not because of religion but because on a subconscious level we know we thrive and experience a better quali ty of living in a society and that if we rebel against social norms and standards too much, we will be outcasts. We all conform to society. And we do it not out of goodness or a sense of religious morality, but because we thrive as a society.

Utter nonsense. The reason I don't go on a killing spree is that I understand the incredible pain that would cause, the immense suffering, the pain and the loss. Even if I knew there was a "God" that would have no effect at all on my unwillingness to kill. If "God" forbids killing, or if "God" commands killing would make no difference to me, I won't do it because I understand it is wrong. Nor is it the fear of government. Same situation, if the government forbids killing or commands killing it makes no difference to me.

 

[Marisa]

The reason why America has the highest prison incarceration rate of any developed nation is because it jails people for victimless crimes such as smoking marijuana. Also, the American justice system focuses more on harshly punishing criminals rather than providing them with the education, job skills and social skills to function as productive members of society. If America were to adopt the Norwegian justice system, then there would be less repeat criminal offenders. I've posted a link to a YouTube video about the Norwegian justice system.

And yet, if your postulation that religion keeps people on the moral straight and narrow is correct, you wouldn't expect to find such high numbers of christians breaking ANY law. With more than 70% of the population self identifying as christian, you have vast numbers of christians breaking laws and getting jailed. You're right, that we do jail people for victimless crimes. That's irrelevant to the assertion you made.

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

Utter nonsense. The reason I don't go on a killing spree is that I understand the incredible pain that would cause, the immense suffering, the pain and the loss. Even if I knew there was a "God" that would have no effect at all on my unwillingness to kill. If "God" forbids killing, or if "God" commands killing would make no difference to me, I won't do it because I understand it is wrong. Nor is it the fear of government. Same situation, if the government forbids killing or commands killing it makes no difference to me.

You could take a mil from a financial institution with certainty you wouldn't be caught and the funds would be missed?
You don't steal because you might get shot in the process. You don't steal because you like the social benefits of living in a society where your possessions are respected and anarchy and chaos are rare.

 

[fantome profane]

Now that I believe myself to be a soulless ape who doesn't have to answer to God on Judgment Day, I'm not so sure if I would behave morally when I know that there is nobody watching me.

That is something you need to figure out. I am aware of how recent and how sudden your conversion (de-conversion?) was, but you need to figure this out.

Let me just give a hint to start you off. Ask yourself this question. Does the Golden Rule require "God"? Does the principle of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" change if there is no "God"?

 

[AmyintheBibleBelt]

You could take a mil from a financial institution with certainty you wouldn't be caught and the funds would be missed?
You don't steal because you might get shot in the process. You don't steal because you like the social benefits of living in a society where your possessions are respected and anarchy and chaos are rare.

And you understand that it is wrong because society has said it is wrong and unacceptable. The religious have converted by the sword, sacrificed animals and humas, held slaves, burned witches, repressed science, subjugated women. The religious abandoned these practices when society no longer accepted them. Not because they had some moral epiphany.

 

[fantome profane]

You could take a mil from a financial institution with certainty you wouldn't be caught and the funds would be missed?
You don't steal because you might get shot in the process. You don't steal because you like the social benefits of living in a society where your possessions are respected and anarchy and chaos are rare.

I don't deny the reality of the "social contract" aspect of morality. But I think there is more to it than that. I know that there are a lot of crimes that I could get away with with little of no risk to my safety or freedom. Despite what you may have been told statistics show very clearly that crime does pay. But I don't steal because it does lead to suffering from those I steal from. The anarchy and chaos you refer to are a big part of the reason, but even if that anarchy did not directly effect me it would effect others. And that does matter to me, "God" or not, cops or not.