Response: I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it or be more specific? I call them revelations from Allah(swt). But I don't think that this was the answer you were looking for. If not, perhaps you can explain your question better for me so I can better address you.
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7 layers of heaven
- Thread starter skydivephil
- Start date
Response: I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it or be more specific? I call them revelations from Allah(swt). But I don't think that this was the answer you were looking for. If not, perhaps you can explain your question better for me so I can better address you.
Friend Fatihah, From the above response, I interpreted 3 possible conditions in the text of the Qur'an. 1. Parable, 2. Verses, 3. To be taken literally.
When you said "As for the verses, since neither is the case, it should be taken literally." I supposed that you we're implying that the items:
were in category 2. (Verses). which according to you, should also be taken literally. Is that correct?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
No, why should it?
Disseminating inaccurate knowledge, as truth, harms people just as much as bigotry and physical violence, in my opinion, as it hobbles the thinking of the believer, quite unnecessarily.
Likewise there is also the unfortunate possibility that he didn't really have the slightest idea what he was talking about and we are simply chasing our tails trying to determine his meaning.
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Response: Yes. The verses are to be taken literally, unless the qur'an says otherwise. For example, in chapter 14:24-26, we read:
"Dost thou not see how Allah sets forth a parable of a good word? It is like a good tree, whose roots is firm and whose branches reach into heaven?
It brings forth its fruit at all times by the command of its Lord. And Allah sets forth parables for men that they may be reminded.
And the case of an evil word is like that of an evil tree, which is uprooted from above the earth and has no stability".
As you can see, it specifically says "how" and "why" parables are used. When Allah speaks of good, He does so in a beautiful way, with metaphors like, "a good tree", etc. Whereas when Allah speaks of wrong doing, He speaks of it in a harsh way, in an effort to warn humankind from such behavior. When a parable is spoken of, the qur'an will point out that it is just that, a parable. An example is chapter 13:17 which says,
"He sends down water from the sky that valleys flow according to their measure and the flood bears on its surface swelling foam. And from that which they heat in the fire, seeking to make ornaments or utensils, comes out of a foam similar to it. Thus does Allah demonstrate truth and falsehood. Now,as to the foam, it goes away as rubbish and perishes but as to that which benefits men, it stays in the earth. Thus does Allah set forth parables."
As you can see, the verse itself says that it is a parable. Of course there is no foam on the earth's surface from rain. The foam is mentioned as a parable to falsehood. Whereas truth is destined to wash away falsehood, just like rain is destined to washaway foam. That from the command of Allah comes what is good for us. However, from His creation can also come what is not so good. It is for us to choose what is beneficial to us and disregard what is not, hence the foam. The foam is used as a metaphor and should not be taken literally. So if the verse says that it's a parable, it's a parable. If it does not, then one should not take it as such.
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Okay, I am with you. I have been reading from the Koran and I see that it is the truth. (Because I know how Allah (God for English speakers) speaks through messengers of God (Allah for Arabic, Farsi, etc.)) It is unmistakable when you see it. It is always filled with praises to the One true God.
Alas, I am still confused, mainly by the last reference
How could this be taken literally? To me it simply sounds as if it is speaking of Earth, and the stars. (remember, I am only asking. I do not pretend to know.)
Regards, Ganymede.
Alas, I am still confused, mainly by the last reference
How could this be taken literally? To me it simply sounds as if it is speaking of Earth, and the stars. (remember, I am only asking. I do not pretend to know.)
Regards, Ganymede.
A true Bodhisattva would (IMHO) not speak this way of another human, much less speak this way of an historical figure that is important to so many people.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Find out what it means. :ignore:
Response: A definition for "lamp" is a device that generates light". Stars do just that. Despite it being so far from the earth's atmosphere, the light in which it reflects can still be seen. When you look up at night, you see just that. The stars act as a lamp to light up the sky at night, thus fitting perfectly with the literal reading of the verse.
Some people don't know what it means nor will they know until they clean their hearts from that filth that filled them; filth of arrogance, hatred and grudge that veiled their mind and reasoning. But fire will burn itself out if it doesn't find anything to burn, I hope we learn how to deal with the fire of hatred and grudge so that at the end it eats itself.
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Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Respect given without being earned is a rather shallow gift.
Interesting,you say you have been reading the Quran and "see that it is the truth" how so?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Well, that was certainly respectful.
Sorry I don't live up to your preconceived notions about reality. I get that a lot from religious types.skydivephil
Active Member
Problem is the Qur'an says the stars, lamps or whatever you want to call them are in the lower heaven. So why is this light in the lower heaven (or lower layer of the atmosphere as you) claim? if you go up into higher layers of the atmosphere the stars are still visible. In fact they are more visible , thats why scientists don't just launch expensive space telescopes but also high altitude balloon telescopes:
Balloon-Borne Solar Telescope Reaches 120,000 Feet
so the phrase
That's why this Sura makes no sense:
41.12] So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.
Response: Makes perfect sense. Your inability to comprehend is no fault of the qur'an.
Well, that was certainly respectful.
What does reality have to do with it? Your statement did not live up to my expectations of what I understand a bodhisattva (enlightened-being) to be. I didn't mean to insult you, but if you are going to drive around with a bumper sticker that says "mean people suck", and then drive like a maniac cutting people off and such, you might expect a little criticism. (an analogy to posting carelessly whilst displaying the tag-line "bodhisattva").
Disrespect given without cause is an act, apparently to simply cause trouble, and doesn't add anything of value to the discussion.
I know it when I see it. I feel the same about most of the Bible. It vibrates sympathetically with my heart and soul.
imaginaryme
Active Member
Resonance. From what you and others have said, I might have been Baha'i; if it wasn't for being all Gwynnite and stuff.
imaginaryme
Active Member
:clap I love it.
skydivephil
Active Member
Fatihah simply stating it makes sense without countering my argument is not exactly an intellectual debate is it?
imaginaryme
Active Member
No, not intellectual debate. Poetry. Just my two cents here, but it seems to me that you are being a tad "willfully ignorant." Debate is give and take, not I know and you don't; which is dictation. If you wanted to dictate, you should have said so.
I'll shut my hole now, let the Muslims tell it.